MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[2RMCFans]

^ that's good to know... Connor seems to be fitting in well at R-MC & has a great long shot we've seen a few times in Crenshaw.

Congrats to the Quakers & all the ODAC winners this past weekend.

GO JACKETS!!!

[baselinejam]

Hey Hasa- Whaddaya a think about tonight's away game for the Quake's. The game might be an indicator of things to come. I'm hoping the Gennies can step up. It wouldn't hurt if we were the beneficiary of some home cookin' too. Good Luck!

Final in Lexington:  Guilford 96, W&L 67

I'm answering your question after the game is already over, but I was worried about this contest.  Guilford did not play very well against NCWC and BC.  I sort of expected we might lose at NC Wesleyan, but the Bridgewater result caught me off guard.  So, with that said, the beatdown the Quakers put on the Generals tonight was a relief and a surprise.  I didn't check in until the second half, but I know GC led by 20 at the half and had a 37 point second half lead.  I don't know that we're that good or that W&L is that bad, but for one night, the Quakers put it together.  I'm happy we're 6-2.

Tough loss for my Gennies.

Since you responded post game; even then with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, your humility in victory is extraordinarily polite. Your 2nd last sentence is  very kind.

The Generals will have much consider between now & their next game on 12/29.

[hasanova]

Hey Hasa- Whaddaya a think about tonight's away game for the Quake's. The game might be an indicator of things to come. I'm hoping the Gennies can step up. It wouldn't hurt if we were the beneficiary of some home cookin' too. Good Luck!

Final in Lexington:  Guilford 96, W&L 67

I'm answering your question after the game is already over, but I was worried about this contest.  Guilford did not play very well against NCWC and BC.  I sort of expected we might lose at NC Wesleyan, but the Bridgewater result caught me off guard.  So, with that said, the beatdown the Quakers put on the Generals tonight was a relief and a surprise.  I didn't check in until the second half, but I know GC led by 20 at the half and had a 37 point second half lead.  I don't know that we're that good or that W&L is that bad, but for one night, the Quakers put it together.  I'm happy we're 6-2.

Tough loss for my Gennies.

Since you responded post game; even then with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, your humility in victory is extraordinarily polite. Your 2nd last sentence is  very kind.

The Generals will have much consider between now & their next game on 12/29.

Thanks.  I've learned to not get too high when things are going well or too low when they aren't.  Another thing I've learned is that we will play W&L again ... many times!  There's an old adage in baseball that you'll win 1/3 of the games you play no matter what and that you'll lose 1/3 of the games you play no matter what.  I think this rule also applied last Wednesday.  It's what changes and efforts a coach and his players can summon in the other 1/3 that'll make the difference between a good team and great team.

[algernon]

Harrison George has been named the ODAC Player of the Week, following his game against Randolph.  23 points on 10-14 shooting in only 20 minutes of action.  He's averaging 17.7 points, which is second in the ODAC in scoring, despite playing the fewest minutes of all of the top-20 scorers in the conference.  He is 66.7% from the floor, which is second in the ODAC after Hampden-Sydney's Cam Anderson.

Great start to the season for the Tigers, despite two unnecessary losses to Methodist and NC Wesleyan.  Big ODAC games are coming up during the first week of January, with a game at W&L on New Year's Day (!) and the big hosting of the Marlins in Fleet Gymnasium on Wednesday the 4th!  I wish the students were here on campus then and hope that many who are within an hour or so of Hampden-Sydney will help to fill the gymnasium (along with the hundreds of faculty, staff, and community members who will be present).

[narch]

Great start to the season for the Tigers, despite two unnecessary losses to Methodist and NC Wesleyan.

that's an interesting way to phrase it...are any losses "necessary"?

[Seatfiller]

Great start to the season for the Tigers, despite two unnecessary losses to Methodist and NC Wesleyan.

that's an interesting way to phrase it...are any losses "necessary"?

Same thing I was thinking

[algernon]

Great start to the season for the Tigers, despite two unnecessary losses to Methodist and NC Wesleyan.

that's an interesting way to phrase it...are any losses "necessary"?

Funny choice of words on my part ... for sure.  NO losses are necessary.  ALL losses are unwanted. 

Those two losses would not have happened if the Tigers had been playing ball as well as they have most of this season.  They were unexpected and unfortunate ... as well as being unnecessary.   

[narch]

Those two losses would not have happened if the Tigers had been playing ball as well as they have most of this season.  They were unexpected and unfortunate ... as well as being unnecessary.

interesting...what is the empirical measure of "playing ball well"?

in both of those losses, hsc out-shot the opponent
in both of those losses, hsc had at or below their season average in turnovers (20 vs. mu, 14 vs. ncwc)...hsc has won 6 games averaging 22 to's per game in those contest
in both of those losses, hsc held the opponent below their season average shooting percentage

if we are to use wins and losses as the only empirical measure of "playing ball well", wouldn't EVERY loss be described the way you've described these two losses?

perhaps it just happens that methodist and ncwc were the two best teams that hsc has played to this point and hsc has looked better in the other 6 games because they were playing inferior opponents?

[hsctigers2002]

Those two losses would not have happened if the Tigers had been playing ball as well as they have most of this season.  They were unexpected and unfortunate ... as well as being unnecessary.

interesting...what is the empirical measure of "playing ball well"?

in both of those losses, hsc out-shot the opponent
in both of those losses, hsc had at or below their season average in turnovers (20 vs. mu, 14 vs. ncwc)...hsc has won 6 games averaging 22 to's per game in those contest
in both of those losses, hsc held the opponent below their season average shooting percentage

if we are to use wins and losses as the only empirical measure of "playing ball well", wouldn't EVERY loss be described the way you've described these two losses?

perhaps it just happens that methodist and ncwc were the two best teams that vwc has played to this point and hsc has looked better in the other 6 games because they were playing inferior opponents?

You are ignoring many other things to prove a point that is quite simply wrong. H-SC did not play well at all in either of those two games. It would be comical at best for someone to think the below things are defined as good basketball.

Gave up 22 offensive rebounds to Methodist. That's well above season average
Ben Jessee shot 1-9 from three against Methodist. That's well below season average
H-SC was only 8-12 from FT against Methodist. That's below season average.
Harrison George had his worst game of the year against Methodist.
The Tigers suffered from poor shot selection - 31 threes out of 70 total field goal attempts. They were 19-35 on two, 11-31 on threes.

Gave up 17 offensive rebounds to NC Wesleyan. That's above season average.
H-SC shot 1-18 from three. That's more than likely one of the 10 worst shooting performances from three in H-SC history.
H-SC only forced 10 turnovers. That's below season average.

[y_jack_lok]

Interesting sets of stats chosen by hsctigers22 and narch. Perhaps the conclusion to be drawn is that there is no valid empirical measure of "playing ball well" -- at least in the case of the two games being examined.

[narch]

Gave up 22 offensive rebounds to Methodist. That's well above season average

or you could say that mu is a good rebounding team...they have been outrebounded 3 times this season...once by guilford in the opener, once by vwc and once by d1 campbell

Ben Jessee shot 1-9 from three against Methodist. That's well below season average

and ward couldn't miss, hitting 70%, well above his season average - together they were 8 of 19 from three for 42%, which is about 5% higher than their season average...if you look at them as a group, it was actually a pretty good shooting night - as a team, hsc is hitting 35.5% for the season from three and on the night vs. mu, hsc hit (drum roll) 35.5% of their threes

H-SC was only 8-12 from FT against Methodist. That's below season average.

when you take a lot of threes (see below), you aren't going to get a lot of ft opportunities...on the season, hsc averages 15 made ft's per game, so perhaps you can say that they left 7 points on the floor, but i think this was a matter of mu playing a zone (typically you foul less in a zone) and hsc settling for jumpers

Harrison George had his worst game of the year against Methodist.

yes he did...the monarch defenders were able to keep him from getting to the rack, and he was clearly frustrated...combs and hockaday matched his size and athleticism that night, and he clearly did not appear comfortable - in his "absence", ru white, cam anderson and khobi williamson scored a combined 8 points more than their combined season average, so there was some balancing

The Tigers suffered from poor shot selection - 31 threes out of 70 total field goal attempts. They were 19-35 on two, 11-31 on threes.

the monarchs matchup zone forced the tigers to settle for threes...on the season, hsc averages 51.4 ppg from two and 20.7 ppg from three for 72.1 ppg from the field - vs. mu, hsc scored 38 points from two and 33 points from three for 71 points, just 1.1 point below season average - the shot selection didn't hurt their point production much

Gave up 17 offensive rebounds to NC Wesleyan. That's above season average.

ncwc is a pretty good rebounding team, as well...they're big and athletic - that will happen to a lot of teams

H-SC shot 1-18 from three. That's more than likely one of the 10 worst shooting performances from three in H-SC history.

that's not so good

H-SC only forced 10 turnovers. That's below season average.

ncwc takes care of the ball pretty well, averaging just over 17 to's per game

i'll use some statistics to back up this point:

perhaps it just happens that methodist and ncwc were the two best teams that hsc has played to this point and hsc has looked better in the other 6 games because they were playing inferior opponents?

the 6 teams that hsc has beaten have a winning percentage of .347 while the two teams they've lost to have a combined .500 winning percentage - hsc has one win vs. a team above .500

[Brookland]

Facsinating discussion, but perhaps "playing well" and "playing poorly" are best described using the famous definition of "obscenity" - I can't define it, but I know it when I see it. 

[donho]

 thanks narch that took a little work. Simply put HSC has not played well against above 500 teams and thus far has played a weak schedule.

[Seatfiller]

thanks narch that took a little work. Simply put HSC has not played well against above 500 teams and thus far has played a weak schedule.

Not going to lie I have never been a fan of HSC but that win of Randolph was impressive

[algernon]

thanks narch that took a little work. Simply put HSC has not played well against above 500 teams and thus far has played a weak schedule.

Record against "Above .500 DIII Teams":

Virginia Wesleyan  3-1
Guilford               4-2
Randolph              2-1
Randolph-Macon    4-3
Hampden-Sydney   1-1
Bridgewater           1-2
Lynchburg             0-2
Washington & Lee   0-4

Hampden-Sydney has played a rather weak schedule to date.

Randolph-Macon has played the most games against teams with winning records, but they're not winning but about half of them (57%).