MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[HSCDad]

Fletcher's return will be a real plus.  Remember, he started 15 games and played in 28 games last year.  Harrison George was the first sub for Fletcher in the latter part of the season.  His stats were 2.7 points per game and 2.5 rebounds.  He hit 6  3's during the year which surprised everyone when he did it.  Had 11 games with 100% from the floor as a good role player to assist Khobi and Harrison.

[HSCDad]

Pre-season H-SC is 15th in nation - only other ODAC team in rankings is Virginia Wesleyan at 25th - H-SC is pre-season #1 in ODAC followed by VWC and RMC - No ODAC player in top 24 which will change before year end, I bet - DJ Woodmore was Honorable Mention and #1 in conference - H-SC plays Williams 10th game in and they are ranked 6th in the national. Not too long before we can enjoy it!!

[Mr. Ypsi]

Pre-season H-SC is 15th in nation - only other ODAC team in rankings is Virginia Wesleyan at 25th - H-SC is pre-season #1 in ODAC followed by VWC and RMC - No ODAC player in top 24 which will change before year end, I bet - DJ Woodmore was Honorable Mention and #1 in conference - H-SC plays Williams 10th game in and they are ranked 6th in the national. Not too long before we can enjoy it!!

Which poll is that?  (IMO, the only well-informed poll is d3hoops.com.)

[HSCDad]

DIII News publication

[Mr. Ypsi]

That's what I suspected.  They have some downright laughable positioning.  (This is NOT to impugn the ODAC rankings - if anything, I suspect they are too low.)

[hasanova]

Just looked over the 2013-14 Guilford schedule and saw some interesting nonconference games.  In addition to the normal games against "local" DIII's (Greensboro, Averett, Methodist and NC Wesleyan), I see Lagrange, Messiah, Birmingham-Southern and Dickinson.  Anyone know anything about the latter four squads?

[HSCDad]

W&L announced today that they have a new policy that anyone who's parent make less than $75,000 per year will have their tuition paid (not sure about their other educational expenses)
.  Seems like this will have a major positive impact on their recruiting!!

[jknezek]

W&L announced today that they have a new policy that anyone who's parent make less than $75,000 per year will have their tuition paid (not sure about their other educational expenses)
.  Seems like this will have a major positive impact on their recruiting!!

This has been a long time in coming. W&L's tuition has gone from an "educational value" to a liberal arts norm, all while the endowment has grown at a pretty good clip. The high price tag helps with your U.S. News (and other psuedo ranking publications) prestige, but hurts your actual students. To be honest I highly doubt too many students whose families made less than $75K were paying anything near the sticker price before the announcement. This is just putting lipstick on the pig and trying to get some good publicity out of something that was already a reality.

I still think the school would be better off just dropping tuition to a more reasonable number for everyone, rather than putting up a sticker that almost no one pays, but that would make too much sense for the people in academia. The really interesting thing is 75K is greater than the average annual income of an American family, so W&L is basically saying unless you make more than average, there is no way you could actually afford to come here based on what we think we are worth. If you assume financial aid extends above the 75K, which it does as that is not a magic number for affording 60K a year in tuition and board, and you realize you have to be rich to actually pay the sticker. It's almost as stupid a system as the bills you get for your healthcare before it goes through insurance...

[algernon]

http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2013/10/15/washington-and-lee-offers-free-tuition.html

The program doesn't cover $12,400 in room, board, and fees per year.  That would still be a large amount for a family making less than $75,000 that had 2 or 3 children going to college. 

It's probably not significantly different from what W&L was offering in financial aid to students at this income level previously, but it's better marketing for a school that's trying to increase it's diversity and having a hard time doing that.

[jknezek]

http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2013/10/15/washington-and-lee-offers-free-tuition.html

The program doesn't cover $12,400 in room, board, and fees per year.  That would still be a large amount for a family making less than $75,000 that had 2 or 3 children going to college. 

It's probably not significantly different from what W&L was offering in financial aid to students at this income level previously, but it's better marketing for a school that's trying to increase it's diversity and having a hard time doing that.

Increasing diversity at W&L is always going to be tough. Named for a southern Civil War general and darned proud of it makes for a real hard sell. Most of that $12,400 could go through other grants. Can barely go to a state school for that kind of money these days. But I agree, this is announcing something that was close to a fait acompli already...

[baselinejam]

http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2013/10/15/washington-and-lee-offers-free-tuition.html

The program doesn't cover $12,400 in room, board, and fees per year.  That would still be a large amount for a family making less than $75,000 that had 2 or 3 children going to college. 

It's probably not significantly different from what W&L was offering in financial aid to students at this income level previously, but it's better marketing for a school that's trying to increase it's diversity and having a hard time doing that.

Increasing diversity at W&L is always going to be tough. Named for a southern Civil War general and darned proud of it makes for a real hard sell. Most of that $12,400 could go through other grants. Can barely go to a state school for that kind of money these days. But I agree, this is announcing something that was close to a fait acompli already...

I'll start by saying my General never got a dime. I'd suggest that this is radically different than they offered in the past. If that increases the diversity that's nice. It is exemplary of W&L to put their endowment to good use, by to attracting the best students they can admit.

If a youngster can get in to W&L, and carry about $50k in loans to cover non-tuition items; then I say it's a home run.

[algernon]

The new plan is not significantly different then what W&L was previously doing for those making less than $75,000.  W&L has been "committed to meeting100% of a student's institutionally determined need" for awhile, through a combination of grants and work-study (and loans would be available to help even more).  I'm certain that the estimated family contribution for a child in a family of two parents and two children, with family income of $75,000 and no significant assets, would be less than $10,000 ... probably about $6000.  In past years, W&L would figure total cost to be about $59,000, including books and minimal travel, and award about $49,000 in grants and maybe $4000 in work-study, leaving about $6000 to be covered by the family (with the help of loans).  That level of support may be better or worse than the new program, but it is not much different, either way. 

W&L has always been generous with financial aid to those with limited income and assets (with significant need-based grants available even to some students from families making over $150,000/year, depending on assets), and I think that the new plan is a smart idea, especially as a marketing effort which may get good newsplay, and thereby increase their ability to attract lower SES applicants and increase diversity, a very good thing.

[HSCDad]

d3hoops pre-season out today - H-SC 14th (one better than previous poll) - RMacon 16th and VWC 25th - not bad with 3 ODAC's there.  Will be great season - less than a month to start!!

[algernon]

d3hoops pre-season out today - H-SC 14th (one better than previous poll) - RMacon 16th and VWC 25th - not bad with 3 ODAC's there.  Will be great season - less than a month to start!!

How interesting!!  It's cool to see ODAC teams ranked so high, with 3 in the Top 25!

Personally, with Astorga, Teasley, and Ford graduated, I wouldn't put the Marlins in the Top 25 at the beginning of the season.  However, they always are strong by the end of the season, regardless of their losses to graduation.

With Harrison George graduated, it's hard to know what the Tigers will look like.  Granted, he was just one person, but he may very well be the best Tiger player we've seen during the last 20 years.  Maybe the Tigers will end up as good as last year or better, but it will be a different team.  With Williamson, Hargrove, Lewis, Wetzel, Lumpkin, Obradovic, Murray, and other returnees joined by a super recruiting class, the possibilities are there.  Time will tell.

I think the Yellow Jackets will be the ODAC preseason #1 and deserve to be as highly ranked as they are.

[y_jack_lok]

How interesting!!  It's cool to see ODAC teams ranked so high, with 3 in the Top 25!

The ODAC is definitely one of the stronger conferences in the country. The CCIW has the following ranked teams - #2 Illinois Wesleyan, #5 Wheaton, #6 North Central. The NESCAC has #1 Amherst, #3 Williams, and #18 Middlebury. The WIAC has #4 UWSP and #14 UWW. So 11 of the top 25 are from four conferences.