MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[CMR]

RMC is only top 5 team not to lose this week.  RMC could be #1 this week.  Not sure that you want that target on your back!

[y_jack_lok]

RMC is only top 5 team not to lose this week.  RMC could be #1 this week.  Not sure that you want that target on your back!

Yep. And previously unbeaten #3 Marietta lost twice, leaving #6 Albertus Magnus and #7 St. Norbert as the only one loss teams. There's a logjam at the top.

[hasanova]

Quakers improve to 17-6, 10-4 with a 73-66 win over the Bridgewater Eagles today in Greensboro on Senior Day.  Senior Matt McCarthy's 19 points and his first half three that gave Guilford the lead for good at 22-19 led the way.  Last two games at LC and VWC will be tough.

Isn't the ODAC "wacky" when EMU can top VWC and then lose to E&H?

[hscathletics]

Well it is an interesting distinction, but there isn't a better title to use... but if a team doesn't play 70% of their games in-region by definition (200 miles, conference, actual region, administrative region), then the only games that count in that "Region Record" will be games actually in the region by definition. The rest go to their overall record. If you a team goes past that 70% or gets a waiver (which barely happens anymore), then all games that are Division III go there and any non-Division III go to the overall record.

Seems kinda pointless to even have a breakdown for regional record then since my educated is guess is that nearly every single team would reach that 70% plateau.

[y_jack_lok]

Well it is an interesting distinction, but there isn't a better title to use... but if a team doesn't play 70% of their games in-region by definition (200 miles, conference, actual region, administrative region), then the only games that count in that "Region Record" will be games actually in the region by definition. The rest go to their overall record. If you a team goes past that 70% or gets a waiver (which barely happens anymore), then all games that are Division III go there and any non-Division III go to the overall record.

Seems kinda pointless to even have a breakdown for regional record then since my educated is guess is that nearly every single team would reach that 70% plateau.

I concur. I think there may be some rare exceptions. One I know of is Nebraska Wesleyan which is pretty far from a lot of D3 schools so they have dual affiliation with D3 and the NAIA. Some years they play enough games against D3 teams to have a shot at a bid to the tournament if their record warrants it. There might be a few others like that.

[donho]

CMR , i have a feeling any coach would gladly take that target ! 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Well it is an interesting distinction, but there isn't a better title to use... but if a team doesn't play 70% of their games in-region by definition (200 miles, conference, actual region, administrative region), then the only games that count in that "Region Record" will be games actually in the region by definition. The rest go to their overall record. If you a team goes past that 70% or gets a waiver (which barely happens anymore), then all games that are Division III go there and any non-Division III go to the overall record.

Seems kinda pointless to even have a breakdown for regional record then since my educated is guess is that nearly every single team would reach that 70% plateau.

Because there are games that aren't against Division III teams OR games against provisional teams. Those games don't count towards your Division III record - just your overall. Look through the data sheets you will see PLENTY of these examples.

[hscathletics]

Well it is an interesting distinction, but there isn't a better title to use... but if a team doesn't play 70% of their games in-region by definition (200 miles, conference, actual region, administrative region), then the only games that count in that "Region Record" will be games actually in the region by definition. The rest go to their overall record. If you a team goes past that 70% or gets a waiver (which barely happens anymore), then all games that are Division III go there and any non-Division III go to the overall record.

Seems kinda pointless to even have a breakdown for regional record then since my educated is guess is that nearly every single team would reach that 70% plateau.

Because there are games that aren't against Division III teams OR games against provisional teams. Those games don't count towards your Division III record - just your overall. Look through the data sheets you will see PLENTY of these examples.

Yes, but why not just put their record against D3 then? It's not really a "regional" record if it's counting teams not in your region. Like our games against Coast Guard Academy in Puerto Rico and Husson in Vegas, for example. No where close to our region and certainly not within 200 miles

[algernon]

It's an important distinction ... DIII or not DIII. 

On the other hand, I don't understand why "in-region" vs. out-of-region is an issue at all. 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Well it is an interesting distinction, but there isn't a better title to use... but if a team doesn't play 70% of their games in-region by definition (200 miles, conference, actual region, administrative region), then the only games that count in that "Region Record" will be games actually in the region by definition. The rest go to their overall record. If you a team goes past that 70% or gets a waiver (which barely happens anymore), then all games that are Division III go there and any non-Division III go to the overall record.

Seems kinda pointless to even have a breakdown for regional record then since my educated is guess is that nearly every single team would reach that 70% plateau.

Because there are games that aren't against Division III teams OR games against provisional teams. Those games don't count towards your Division III record - just your overall. Look through the data sheets you will see PLENTY of these examples.

Yes, but why not just put their record against D3 then? It's not really a "regional" record if it's counting teams not in your region. Like our games against Coast Guard Academy in Puerto Rico and Husson in Vegas, for example. No where close to our region and certainly not within 200 miles

Well you are confusing a couple of points here:
- First off, where the game is played has nothing to do with whether it is regional or not... just the distance between schools.
- Second, there are other regions like administrative regions that come into play as well - though not in your two examples.

Here is the deal, we have slowly moved from games being just in region towards something more national. This has been slow and presidents have eventually allowed more of this across Division III. However, they are not going to count all games if teams still can't focus on their regional games in the first place. This is key.

A team has to play 70% of their games in region by the definition that a team is within 200 miles, it is a conference game, it is within the actual region (in this case the South), or the administrative region (in this case Zone 3). If they meet this threshold (which many teams do just in conference play like the ODAC), then all of their games against eligible Division III opponents will count towards the primary criteria when it comes to rankings and selections. This allows a more national stroke when comparing teams nationally even though most of the data is still very regional.

IF a team can not reach that threshold, then ONLY their games that meet a regional game will count in the primary criteria. That can be pivotal. A team could end up with ten less games on their record and thus influence their SOS which could seriously handicap them. Even three or four games can have a challenging affect on criteria which is why some teams in conferences like the SCIAC, ASC, NWC, and elsewhere play an interesting gambling card when playing non-Division III opponents.

Which gets me to that point... only your Division III opponents, who are eligible, really matter. Yes, your overall record is considered in secondary criteria, but your non-Division III opponent is really only going to matter if another team has the same opponent and the committees can use common head-to-head results as a comparison - almost entirely unlikely to happen. Also, if a Division III is in its first or second year as a provisional member, they don't count towards primary criteria (though, they now can be counted towards the 70% mark).

The definition of an in-region game and how many of your games count towards criteria has expanded over the last two decades, but ultimately you have to play most of your games in-region and you have to play Division III opponents. The idea is to keep teams from gallivanting around the country because they can afford to do it while others can not afford to travel further than a few hours (whether it be cost financially or time out of the classroom).

As for the words "In-Region"... they are just words and honestly I haven't come up with a better description. Maybe "Primary Record" versus "Secondary "Record" could work... but most of us understand what in-region record means and know that it is the most important WL indicator to pay attention to.

[hasanova]

Looking at the ODAC standings, RMC has the #1 seed locked up and VWC and GC will be #2 or #3 with order still to be decided.  After that, who knows?  Even if GC and EMU both finish at 10-6, GC has the head-to-head tiebreaker for 3rd.  Who wants #4?

[flightless bird fan]

Isn't the ODAC "wacky" when EMU can top VWC and then lose to E&H?

I am sure Coach Dean would have words other than wacky.  I told someone (not on this board) that I saw this coming, though.  You beat a good team and then play a struggling team, so often you play to their level.  Crazy

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

"Trap Game"

[algernon]

Looking at the ODAC standings, RMC has the #1 seed locked up and VWC and GC will be #2 or #3 with order still to be decided.  After that, who knows?  Even if GC and EMU both finish at 10-6, GC has the head-to-head tiebreaker for 3rd.  Who wants #4?

HSC seems highly unlikely to be #4, given that they are a game behind EMU .... and EMU wins the tie-breaker on the basis of their Double Overtime win when they played at HSC on 1/17.  I also think that EMU will end up winning the tie-breaker over Lynchburg, based on the point system, so I'd bet on EMU at #4.

I expect that HSC will be the #5 .... although the Tigers could fall behind Lynchburg to #6.  Would love to see the Quakers beat the Hornets on Wednesday, Hasanova.  Can you arrange that?

The Tigers will probably host either Emory and Henry or Shenandoah in the ODAC Tournament opening round game on Monday the 23rd (one week from today).  If they win that one, then they'll play the quarterfinals in Salem on Thursday the 26th, either as the #5 seed at 3pm against the #4 seed (likely EMU) or as the #6 seed at 8pm against the #3 seed -- either Virginia Wesleyan or Guilford.

[algernon]

Greg Lewis now has 958 career points and just needs another 42 to finish with 1,000.  I'm sure he's much more concerned about the Tigers finishing this season on a winning note and going deep in the tournament, but I just want to recognize a superb young man who has had an excellent career with the Tigers over the past 4 years!

Senior Night at HSC will be this coming Saturday.  We will be recognizing the excellent accomplishments of Greg Lewis, Leon Hargrove, and Alex Smith.