MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[Macon]

I welcome Mr. Norton to RMC and hope he's able to contribute.  By my count, two players left the program, not very unusual for DIII.  This is a good looking team, and the freshmen class seems very strong on paper.  I also saw a couple of weeks ago that HSC's roster was up and they also had a large and strong freshmen class.  Hoping the RMC dominance over HSC continues.  And, strongly hoping to see the season being played.

[rmc1982]

Watched Coach Merkel last night on his podcast to the YJ Club.....looking for GREAT THINGS from our group of guys this year....don't want to share too much but that we will open with Lynchburg on January 23 I believe. NCAA has granted an extra year of eligibility for our Seniors so we will have them TWO more years it appears!

[ScottieSuit]

I, and most people on this board would agree, want to see D3 athletics resume regular competition as soon as possible. The challenges of resuming competition in light of COVID-19 are quite complicated, especially when it comes to the financial strain placed on athletic departments needing to test athletes. However, I do need to stop and ask, is the the best course of action for D3?

https://vwuathletics.com/news/2020/11/12/general-marlins-launch-helpusplay-campaign.aspx

I applaud VWU for doing whatever is necessary for their student athletes but this does not seem like a sustainable route to ensuring that student athletes at VWU, and student athletes across the ODAC, are properly protected.

I am not sure I have a better answer but I would love to hear other opinions. I would also love to hear about what other schools in the ODAC are doing to ensure the safety of their student athletes as the conference moves towards resumption of competition.

[y_jack_lok]

^^^ I'm not sure if you are questioning the wisdom of a return to competition or the wisdom of fund raisng to support COVID testing -- or both.

[ScottieSuit]

^^^ I'm not sure if you are questioning the wisdom of a return to competition or the wisdom of fund raisng to support COVID testing -- or both.

If COVID tests are $25 each and basketball has been deemed a Tier 1 sport (each athlete tested 3x a week per the NCAA recommendation), at what point does the financial burden outweigh the benefits of returning to sport? Expand this to the entire athletic department and it seems like a unreasonable financial burden for most D3 schools.

[y_jack_lok]

^^^ I'm not sure if you are questioning the wisdom of a return to competition or the wisdom of fund raisng to support COVID testing -- or both.

If COVID tests are $25 each and basketball has been deemed a Tier 1 sport (each athlete tested 3x a week per the NCAA recommendation), at what point does the financial burden outweigh the benefits of returning to sport? Expand this to the entire athletic department and it seems like a unreasonable financial burden for most D3 schools.

Agreed. And while it is reasonable for schools to fund raise to cover the expense of testing, will they be able to raise enough money?

[Pat Coleman]

E&H leaving D-III.
https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2020/11/emory-henry-sets-sights-d2

[y_jack_lok]

ODAC announcement: https://odac.prestosports.com/general/2020-21/releases/111720-odac-update-spring-semester

Basketball to begin January 23. Other sports later in the spring.

[scottiedoug]

The Emory and Henry move is all about recruiting and travel costs. They think they can compete for student athletes in the area near Southwest Virginia who now go to D2 schools and that travel costs will be lower than for competing in the ODAC.

Not surte where the scholarship money is supposed to come from and the academic profile of the new conference is nowhere near the ODAC. 

[Macon]

E&H leaving D-III.
https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2020/11/emory-henry-sets-sights-d2

This seems like a very foolish move.  For a school of about 900 students that's already struggling financially and with enrollment levels, this only adds costs with few benefits.  Sounds like a desperate move to fix issues that athletics can't fix.  Plus, for a program that struggled in the ODAC, this is not a move made from a position of athletic strength.  The most likely ODAC program to move to DII is RMC, given it's athletic strengths.  But, even for RMC, it would be a mistake and one I'd strongly discourage.  Remember, RMC was a DII school in my day.  From a financial capability, WLU could easily move to DII.  But, from an academic standpoint, WLU would be out of step with DII.  Good luck to EHC, but I think this experiment will fail. 

[jknezek]

I put this in the football thread, but since this seems to be the only ODAC active board right now...


That will be interesting. I can see what they are going for, given the plethora of D3 schools in VA and the relative scarcity of D2 schools. E&H has been very reliant on athletes to make numbers for a while, so if that stays the strategy, maybe this will give them an edge. Their facilities are probably fine for D2, at least the ones I remember. Certainly the main stadium. I don't recall the gym as well, but I don't remember it being bad.

I wish them luck. It was never one of my favorite places to visit for football games. Sure the crowd was passionate, but I also found them to be more than a bit angry and rude. The last time I was there several tried to pick fights with me and my fraternity brother who were wearing W&L gear. It was entertaining since he is a Federal Prosecutor for SW VA and is married to an E&H grad.

Otherwise, despite the emphasis on student athletes in the campus make up, they never seemed real good at any sport on a consistent basis. They never won a Commissioner's Cup, men's or women's let alone the overall, and never finished higher than 7th in the last 20 years. Mostly in the 8-11 range in the overall, which puts them as one of the last co-ed schools in the conference.

They are something of a geographic outlier in the ODAC, but it's still not real bad especially with the addition of Ferrum. E&H to RMC is less than 5 hours, Va Wes is less than 6 hours, I believe those are the 2 longest as Shenandoah is maybe more miles but a straight shot up I-81. I guess the trips will be shorter in the SAC though, much to my surprise. It doesn't look like they will have a road trip more than 4.5 hours and more than a few schools will be under 2 hours. At worst it is a wash but it does look better. So maybe that was also a big factor? Especially given the SAC is also a private school, liberal arts based conference.

Either way, good luck to E&H. Bummer for ODAC football scheduling, but I'm sure a lot of other sports, already overstuffed, aren't too upset at losing a middle of the conference, at best, program.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

If I recall correctly, they were struggling to win d3 recruiting battles.  Perhaps less local competition for d2 players will help them improve?  We also don't know what their financial aid picture looks like.  I know some schools have gone from d3 to d2 or NAIA because they can actually spend less overall on scholarships than they were giving athletes in regular aid at the d3 level.

[Macon]

If I recall correctly, they were struggling to win d3 recruiting battles?  Perhaps less local competition for d2 players will help them improve?  We also don't know what their financial aid picture looks like.  I know some schools have gone from d3 to d2 or NAIA because they can actually spend less overall on scholarships than they were giving athletes in regular aid at the d3 level.

But, what truly is the difference between a DII and DIII player.  I'd contend that most RMC basketball players would play on most DII teams.  Maybe as a DII team, they'll simply get better 'DIII' players.  After looking at the SAC conference, I can actually see where EHC may be a good fit.  It's a lesser academic conference (I'm assuming EHC is on the lower end of the ODAC academically) and geographically is a slightly better fit as well.  Maybe, there's a slightly higher public profile as a DII school to some.  Maybe my initial response was a little harsh, but I still think that EHC will struggle, even more so at the DII level.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

VA-Wise is right nearby, too.  Gives them a great local rival in the same conference.

[y_jack_lok]

If I recall correctly, they were struggling to win d3 recruiting battles?  Perhaps less local competition for d2 players will help them improve?  We also don't know what their financial aid picture looks like.  I know some schools have gone from d3 to d2 or NAIA because they can actually spend less overall on scholarships than they were giving athletes in regular aid at the d3 level.

But, what truly is the difference between a DII and DIII player.  I'd contend that most RMC basketball players would play on most DII teams.  Maybe as a DII team, they'll simply get better 'DIII' players.  After looking at the SAC conference, I can actually see where EHC may be a good fit.  It's a lesser academic conference (I'm assuming EHC is on the lower end of the ODAC academically) and geographically is a slightly better fit as well.  Maybe, there's a slightly higher public profile as a DII school to some.  Maybe my initial response was a little harsh, but I still think that EHC will struggle, even more so at the DII level.

I agree that most R-MC players would make the roster of many/most D2 teams. That is probably a true statement for many of the players on many of the top teams in D3. But when you get to the weaker teams in D3 the talent level drops off. So of the approximately (just guessing) 6,000-7,000 D3 players (400+ teams x an average roster size of 15) I'd venture that perhaps 15%-20% of them could compete at the D2 level.