MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

The NCAA has always granted priority.  Women for the first round in odd years and for the second round in even years.

Frankly, there just aren't that many facilities that could even attempt to do both and the logistics are difficult.  To get four games in, plus proper warm ups and shootarounds, there just isn't enough time.  You'd have to alternate games, so the women aren't relegated to playing early, then there's the equity if one team gets off the floor four hours before their opponent for the next night, is that too much of a recovery advantage?

I don't see it happening, but I do think it should be up the committees to decide and not handed down from above.

[thescottharris]

Looking at the CNU hosting issue, I've got a question for the playoff gurus.  Can a school host both men and women if they have two gyms that meet NCAA requirements?  Or, is it simply not allowed?  I know few schools have multiple gyms, but if they do?

You trying to exhaust people to death??

As much work as it was a few years ago just for one game at H-SC I was working my butt off all week just for basketball, then you add in all the spring sports stuff on top of that. Hosting NCAA tournament games is a TON of work and there isn't much you can do in advance when you don't know if you're even going to actually be hosting.

[Pat Coleman]

^^^ Thanks for the clarifications.  I know several years ago, RMC lost out on a hosting opportunity when both teams qualified for the tournament.  The men's team was a top ranked team with 100% chance to host, however the school requested a hosting chance for the women's team, whose chances to host was excellent as well.  Not sure if it was a RMC decision or a NCAA guidance to request the women's host.  The request to host for women didn't happen for some obscure reason (don't remember the details) and the men lost an opportunity.  Maybe someone else can fill in the details, or maybe I'm remembering it totally wrong.  But, it sounds like the NCAA now dictates priority, such as this year with CNU, women over men for this cycle.  Being able to apply for both may have avoided this scenario.  I remember it was a big issue on the RMC campus at the time.

This was perhaps a decade ago? Longer? It was the result of a miscommunication between the two committee chairs and helped lead to better communication going forward.

[Macon]

Tigers host!  First game is against Emory (17-8).

Unsurprisingly, the Yellow Jackets host.  Sadly, the Quakers didn't get a bid.

ODAC deserved 3 teams but with the upsets yesterday I knew either HSC or Guilford would be left out.  Good luck to RMC and HSC in the NCAA tourney!

22-6 overall
13-3 in a tough conference (all losses to Top 25 teams)
Made it to the finals of the conference tournament
Three losses to #1 team in the country - could have beaten them in 2 of those games
Beat Emory by 15 at Emory
Beat HSC in the conference tournament semifinals
Ranked 13th in the nation

Did not make the tournament. 

The system is broken.

Hasa, I feel your pain.  As you know, I've made the case for GC and won't repeat myself here.  As the conference championship upsets were happening over the weekend, I kept thinking it was hurting HSC more than GC, simply based on the H2H win by GC (again, what have you done lately) and HSC was limping in with 2 losses in last three games.  After watching Hoopsville, I now know that the NCAA regional rankings are the basis of the selection process, and GC was a victim of those rankings.  If up to me (and sounds like many others) GC would be in, even before HSC.

[Macon]

Looking at the CNU hosting issue, I've got a question for the playoff gurus.  Can a school host both men and women if they have two gyms that meet NCAA requirements?  Or, is it simply not allowed?  I know few schools have multiple gyms, but if they do?

You trying to exhaust people to death??

As much work as it was a few years ago just for one game at H-SC I was working my butt off all week just for basketball, then you add in all the spring sports stuff on top of that. Hosting NCAA tournament games is a TON of work and there isn't much you can do in advance when you don't know if you're even going to actually be hosting.

I get what you're saying and I appreciate your insight into the effort to support a hosting.  I was suggesting that a school has an option, not forcing them to do it if they can't or won't provide the support needed.

[Macon]

^^^ Thanks for the clarifications.  I know several years ago, RMC lost out on a hosting opportunity when both teams qualified for the tournament.  The men's team was a top ranked team with 100% chance to host, however the school requested a hosting chance for the women's team, whose chances to host was excellent as well.  Not sure if it was a RMC decision or a NCAA guidance to request the women's host.  The request to host for women didn't happen for some obscure reason (don't remember the details) and the men lost an opportunity.  Maybe someone else can fill in the details, or maybe I'm remembering it totally wrong.  But, it sounds like the NCAA now dictates priority, such as this year with CNU, women over men for this cycle.  Being able to apply for both may have avoided this scenario.  I remember it was a big issue on the RMC campus at the time.

This was perhaps a decade ago? Longer? It was the result of a miscommunication between the two committee chairs and helped lead to better communication going forward.

Yes, thanks Pat, it was some time ago, at least a decade.  And, yes, now that you mention it, it was a communication issue.  Glad to hear it was corrected, but I know those at RMC were not happy, especially amongst us alums.

[hasanova]

Tigers host!  First game is against Emory (17-8).

Unsurprisingly, the Yellow Jackets host.  Sadly, the Quakers didn't get a bid.

ODAC deserved 3 teams but with the upsets yesterday I knew either HSC or Guilford would be left out.  Good luck to RMC and HSC in the NCAA tourney!

22-6 overall
13-3 in a tough conference (all losses to Top 25 teams)
Made it to the finals of the conference tournament
Three losses to #1 team in the country - could have beaten them in 2 of those games
Beat Emory by 15 at Emory
Beat HSC in the conference tournament semifinals
Ranked 13th in the nation

Did not make the tournament. 

The system is broken.

Hasa, I feel your pain.  As you know, I've made the case for GC and won't repeat myself here.  As the conference championship upsets were happening over the weekend, I kept thinking it was hurting HSC more than GC, simply based on the H2H win by GC (again, what have you done lately) and HSC was limping in with 2 losses in last three games.  After watching Hoopsville, I now know that the NCAA regional rankings are the basis of the selection process, and GC was a victim of those rankings.  If up to me (and sounds like many others) GC would be in, even before HSC.

Can you imagine the outcry if this happened in D1?  D3 is the bastard stepchild of the NCAA.

[rmc1982]

Tigers host!  First game is against Emory (17-8).

Unsurprisingly, the Yellow Jackets host.  Sadly, the Quakers didn't get a bid.

ODAC deserved 3 teams but with the upsets yesterday I knew either HSC or Guilford would be left out.  Good luck to RMC and HSC in the NCAA tourney!

22-6 overall
13-3 in a tough conference (all losses to Top 25 teams)
Made it to the finals of the conference tournament
Three losses to #1 team in the country - could have beaten them in 2 of those games
Beat Emory by 15 at Emory
Beat HSC in the conference tournament semifinals
Ranked 13th in the nation

Did not make the tournament. 

The system is broken.

Hasa, I feel your pain.  As you know, I've made the case for GC and won't repeat myself here.  As the conference championship upsets were happening over the weekend, I kept thinking it was hurting HSC more than GC, simply based on the H2H win by GC (again, what have you done lately) and HSC was limping in with 2 losses in last three games.  After watching Hoopsville, I now know that the NCAA regional rankings are the basis of the selection process, and GC was a victim of those rankings.  If up to me (and sounds like many others) GC would be in, even before HSC.

Can you imagine the outcry if this happened in D1?  D3 is the bastard stepchild of the NCAA.

Hasa- let me say that I 200% AGREE with you! When I saw all those upsets over the weekend I knew what might happen and, watching the selection show yesterday, I kept hoping to see your Quakers name to be called. In this ENTIRE TOURNAMENT there's nobody your boys couldn't beat on-a given day. THREE.... THREE of your losses came from us- were in not for that you're 22-3.... And you're right- it NEVER would happen in D1. All that being said, nothing will make you or your Quakers feel better except the fact that you KNOW you belong! Rant #1 over

Rant #2- who in the HECK EVER thought Ft Wayne, Indiana would be a great place to host the D3 Finals??? After going last year I can only say, although it was great that we won our first National Championship there, this it was the EXACT WRONG PLACE for the D3 Finals!! Ryan- we spoke to you but didn't get a chance to voice our opinion with DMac about how bad of a place it was- NOT because they didn't do a good job or that the venue wasn't nice or anything like that..... but because the place was only probably 15% filled!!!! Why in the hell would they leave Salem, where the place was smaller but mostly full and really loud, for that cavernous stadium that just looks bad when you get in there because there's NOBODY THERE?? We all joked that they should have gone all around Ft Wayne and found a bunch of kids and gave them all FREE TIX just so the place wouldn't seem so EMPTY!! We had a D3 Baseball team That was staying at our hotel that we tried our best to get to come as they were rained out all weekend but they wouldn't. It's just a shame that it looked that bad. All of my RMC friends that were home watching it said it looked bad on tv. WAKE UP DIII COMMITTEE!! Even with Wabash bringing four or five bus loads of people it still seemed empty! You don't have to Move it back to Salem- but it really makes me wonder why they even moved it in the first place- just for the sense of moving? THERE HAS TO BE A BETTER PLACE!

[Pat Coleman]

Salem Civic Center was not mostly filled, either, not the last several years.

I don't think Salem has any interest in bidding for this championship again.

The building in Fort Wayne is too big, no doubt about it, but it's more centrally located in Division III and that certainly helps. Last year the Wabash-Elmhurst semifinal was absolutely electric, similar to the Hampden-Sydney/UW-Platteville final in 1999. But those are the exceptions, rather than the rule.

[rmc1982]

Salem Civic Center was not mostly filled, either, not the last several years.

I don't think Salem has any interest in bidding for this championship again.

The building in Fort Wayne is too big, no doubt about it, but it's more centrally located in Division III and that certainly helps. Last year the Wabash-Elmhurst semifinal was absolutely electric, similar to the Hampden-Sydney/UW-Platteville final in 1999. But those are the exceptions, rather than the rule.

Come on D Mac it was louder than the rest but that was because of the 4 or 5 busloads of Wabash people. I wouldnt exactly call it "electric. We brought a good amount of people considering the distance but you have to admit that place is wayyyy too big for us. I did say I wasnt necessarily saying it could or should  be in Salem.....I just think that, given the amount of empty seats that a better venue could be found. If it's up there so be it. I understand that the majority of the schools are probably closer to there than in Salem,Va but a better choice should and could be made. We were treated wonderfully, the staff there was GREAT, the hotels and restaurants were plentiful...we had NO PROBLEM whatsoever EXCEPT there was only about 20% capacity in that place. They can do better! If it were possible to pack that [place , or even close, then I would say it was GREAT!!

[Pat Coleman]

Come on D Mac ...

[Macon]

Come on D Mac ...

I was having the same issue on Hoopsville last night, who is who?   

[Pat Coleman]

Dave is the one with the better camera

If other potential hosts want to bid, the committee will listen when the time comes up.

[rmc1982]

Come on D Mac ...

Excuse me Pat I was at work typing!! Lol..... I get you guys mixed up, especially when I'm busy at work! I didn't say I didn't like the PLACE.....just didn't like that venue! You wanna see ELECTRIC.....come to THE COTU AND CRENSHAW GYM this weekend! I guess I'm so used to  having  to SCREAM at the person next to me to make them hear me I take the noise for granted. At any rate, I've made my point and now I'll get off my soapbox!  It was just an observation we made last year, that's all....

[Pat Coleman]

Come on D Mac ...

Excuse me Pat I was at work typing!! Lol..... I get you guys mixed up, especially when I'm busy at work! I didn't say I didn't like the PLACE.....just didn't like that venue! You wanna see ELECTRIC.....come to THE COTU AND CRENSHAW GYM this weekend! I guess I'm so used to  having  to SCREAM at the person next to me to make them hear me I take the noise for granted. At any rate, I've made my point and now I'll get off my soapbox!  It was just an observation we made last year, that's all....

I've been to Crenshaw a few times.

https://www.d3hoops.com/images/2001/rmccrowd.jpg