MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[rmc1982]

Since nobody has acknowledged the Elephant in the room........ I've been waiting for one of you "Hamsters"( and I mean that in the kindest way)to say something about the game last night??? More than that, I wonder how the first round loss will affect their NCAA seeding?? Hey- we could easily lose Saturday vs a very good Guilford team but a loss in the semis isn't as bad as losing in the first round plus the fact that unless the wheels fall off of the bus this weekend for our ladies we weren't gonna host in the first round anyway because it's the ladies turn. This one HAS to hurt those kids- the last few weeks they haven't been at their best and have not played up to the potential of the team that beat us TWICE earlier this year. I KNOW they're better than they have played lately. Any of you HSC guys have any insight as to why??We're gonna have to go on the road regardless of whether we win out or not for the first round at least. We are, however , seemingly peaking at a good time and playing some of our best basketball. I fear a team with size will perhaps be our downfall but you Tigers seemingly have it all, size, shooters, young fireballs - what up and what's wrong?? I'm not trying to be a smarta$$- I really don't watch any other teams much unless they're playing us. Just doesent seem right for them to stumble like this late and I'm not just talking about this one game. Thoughts??

Hope you enjoyed seeing the Jackets getting handled in that L yesterday

Can't say I enjoyed it, but TOUCHE'! What I said would be our downfall all year-Poor shooting and lack of size- beat us over the weekend! Cant shoot it great all the time and when you get beat on the boards when you don't is a recipe for a loss! Good Luck to your Tigers! Hope Roanoke can keep it going too! Good Luck to our women's team also playing at Gettysburg, who was our only loss all year. Don't want to bellyache about the men having to play on the road because you have to win on the road- thats the only downside about having two great programs! KUDOS to our ladies! GO JACKETS!

[Tigerfan]

Best wishes to the Roanoke Maroons today as they face Catholic.  I hope they are at the top of their game.  The computers rate the game as a toss-up, with Catholic being the favorite by a very slim margin.  Catholic has been playing well and were able to dispatch the Jackets in a game that was not particularly close.  The Maroons need to stay away from foul trouble, and I'd love to see McClary have a big game.

I hope the Tigers are playing free.  To me and other Tiger fans I know, it feels like H-SC is gambling with house money.  We've gotten way more out of this season than we had a right to expect, and it has been delightful.  Any more wins would be icing on the cake.  There was an outpouring of emotion after the wins last weekend in Kirby as Brazil, Shryock and McGowan played their last home games.  The trip to NYC seems like a celebration of a great season and the seniors, particularly Brazil.  AB was brilliant on the court and the classroom as he earned ODAC scholar athlete of the year for the second time and was inducted into Phi Beta Kappa.  He embodied the ideal of being the best person you can be every day and worked to pass it on to the underclassmen.  Win or lose, I think the Tigers are going to be playing with a lot of joy today, along with great optimism about the future. 

[Brian Hamilton]

Unfortunately the basketball season ended for both Roanoke and HSC today.  Congrats to both teams for advancing to the Sweet Sixteen.  Another good season of ODAC basketball.  Now we enter the time of year where I get bored because I don't have basketball games to attend.

Now that all ODAC teams have finished their seasons, I would like to wish all of the student athletes who have finished their college basketball careers the best of luck for the remainder of this school year and in their future.

[Tigerfan]

The Tigers couldn't hit 3s when they needed them and Redlands converted.  The Tigers fought back but their lack of an athletic big who could help stop athletic drivers hurt them; that was their biggest weakness all season.  H-SC made a good comeback from 26 down to get to 7, but Redlands held.  Redlands played great - best of luck to them.

Great season, Tigers.  The ODAC as a whole had a pretty good season considering that we all thought it would be a down season for the ODAC.  Can't wait for next year. 

[hasanova]

Yep, saw the ODAC was done.  Lots of good teams, but you need to get hot late.

Something I discovered while looking up something else:

W&L was one of the 17 Southern Conference schools when 7 broke away in 1953 to form the ACC (Virginia also joined soon after).

Not picking on the Generals, but they were 1-17 in hoops that last season with 17 teams.

[jknezek]

Yep, saw the ODAC was done.  Lots of good teams, but you need to get hot late.

Something I discovered while looking up something else:

W&L was one of the 17 Southern Conference schools when 7 broke away in 1953 to form the ACC (Virginia also joined soon after).

Not picking on the Generals, but they were 1-17 in hoops that last season with 17 teams.

Men's basketball has been a struggle for W&L for most of our recent history. The late sixties through 1980 were the glory years. But we've only ever won a single NCAA game, in 1978.

Coach McHugh is the first coach with a winning record since Verne Canfield, who coached from '64-'95, and then you have to go back to the 30s and 40s for a coach with a winning record.

To be fair, if you really go all the way back, the team is 1285-1280-1 in program history. But 355-521 since the start of the 1990/91 season. McHugh has really been a bright spot. This season was his first losing season at W&L, and it came off a pair of 18 win seasons. So I'm hoping we just went from a very upperclass team to a very young team and W&L rebounds next year.

I will say, as we all know, the ODAC is just brutal. R-MC, H-SC, Guilford, Roanoke, Va Wes... W&L under McHugh would probably be a decent threat to make the tournament in most conferences, but the ODAC makes that a lot harder.

[Macon]

The Final Four is represented by only two conferences, but these schools have even more in common and in many ways are not typical of most DIII colleges.

Interestingly, these four colleges are some of the most highly rated academic colleges, not only in DIII, but at all levels.  Also, these colleges have huge endowments, all four over $1B, with Wash U. at $11.5B.  The student enrollments are also higher than most DIII schools.

Given these commonalities, do their athletic department have commonalities?  For example, do these large endowments give their athletic departments an advantage over other DIII programs.  Or, is this final four just an anomaly?

Additionally, are there common threads in their basketball teams, such as style of play or roster makeup?

Are all of my comments just bull, or is there something there?

[Macon]

My thoughts on the ODAC season and where things go next season.  Overall, probably a disappointing tournament for the ODAC, getting four teams in was a nice plus, but not getting anyone into the final 8 is disappointing.  HSC and RMC clearly underperformed at the end of the season.  Both were highly rated during the season, but failed early in the ODAC tournament.  I think they both also exited the NCAA earlier than expected.  RC probably over performed, going to the ODAC final and into the third round of NCAA.  GC, as well, overperformed by winning ODAC.

Looking into next season, RMC returns the whole team.  They need to find a PF or two next season.  HSC loses Brazil, who is the best ODAC player since Buzz.  He'll be a huge loss for HSC.  Not sure how RC or GC will look next season.  Overall, the ODAC next season will be even more balanced as a league, as VWU and others challenges again.

[y_jack_lok]

Macon, it's fascinating that you posted about the schools in the final four and their endowments. I was literally just looking up that info and had decided to root for the school with the smallest endowment -- Trinity. I do have a soft spot for Wash U, since I live in Saint Louis, but I'll stick with Trinity this time.

As for next season, RMC definitely needs to add some players with size who are good enough to give at least 15 minutes a game.

[Macon]

^^^  I'm with you, rooting for Trinity.  It's the only one of the four that I've been on campus.

[Tigerfan]

H-SC needs an athletic, powerful rebounder and defender to complement Fernald.  Roanoke loses McClary, a really big loss, but will otherwise be intact.  Lynchburg returns 4 starters.  If VWU gets Deveaux back (not sure if he uses a medical redshirt for 23-24 season), they will have 4 starters back.  Tom Palombo always seems to find talent, but he sure does have a lot to replace.

I'm rooting for anybody except NYU.  3 of 5 starters and 5 of top 7 are grad student transfers.  With the Covid extra year ending with season, this shouldn't be an issue in the future, but it sure gives the large D3 universities with established grad schools an advantage.  I'd do the same thing in NYU's shoes, but I prefer the "home grown" talent. 

[jknezek]

I've always been interested in the dynamics of DIII due to the variety of different schools. I have always maintained that the academic powerhouses have an advantage in most sports because they can recruit up.

When I look at the NESCAC schools, those are the players I see. When I look at the big research schools, well, many of the very best are D3s. Sure you have Stamford and a few others, but if you are big into STEM, and want to balance that with athletics, D3 opportunities abound in ways D1 can't match.

So these schools can recruit up. And in sports with small numbers, like basketball, I think that makes it a lot easier to level the playing field versus schools who have looser admittance standards who have access to a bigger pool of really good players with less of an academic background. Of course, there are more schools going for those same kids, so coach, facilities, experience and more matter in that difficult recruiting.

But I think the dichotomy of high academic schools being able to grab from a small pool of above D3 talent player vs a lot of schools fighting over a larger pool of talented but less academically proven players, holds true across almost all sports.

Football being the most popular exception. And here I see 2 big differences, one of which is about to end. 1) The NESCAC didn't compete in the playoffs so the highest academic schools weren't as represented and 2) roster size. It's a lot easier to "recruit up" a couple players a year. It's a lot harder to do it 20x a year, every year. Though we are seeing JHU have significant and prolonged success, so it is definitely possible. The addition of the NESCAC to the D3 football playoffs is really going to be interesting.

Regardless, when you look across D3, the schools consistently going deep in many sports, tend to be high academic schools.

Field Hockey Final 4 -- Tufts, Middlebury, Salisbury, Williams
Mens Soccer Final 4 -- W&L, Conn College, Amherst, Middlebury
Womens Soccer Final 4 -- Wash U, CNU, William Smith, Emory
Womens Volleyball -- Juniata, Hope, JHU, UWW
Womens CC -- MIT, Chicago, Williams, NYU
Mens CC -- UW-L, Wartburg, Pomona-Pitzer, UWW
Football -- Susquehanna, North Central, UMU, JHU
Women's BBall -- Smith, UW-O, NYU, UW-Stout
Mens BBall -- Wesleyan, NYU, Trinity, Wash U


Or you can look at the Learfield Cup --

2022/2023 final - top 10 -- JHU, Tufts, Williams, MIT, Emory, Chicago, CNU, Middlebury, Wash U, C-M-S.
2023/2024 final - top 10 -- JHU, Williams, Emory, Tufts, NYU, Middlebury, MIT, Wash U, C-M-S, UWW

Fall 2024 Partial -- JHU, Middlebury, W&L, Tufts, Emory, Williams, Amherst, CMU, Wash U, MIT

Ok, the last one I snuck in just for my Generals. W&L does well in the Fall, but will not be 3rd after Winter!

[Macon]

Jknezek, great analysis on your part, as you always do.

[Brian Hamilton]

Ryan Scott addressed some of this in an Around the Nation Feature back on January 28.  He discusses some of the differences between Guilford and Emory.  It is worth a read.  Link to Around the Nation article

I'll also mention since it hasn't been mentioned on the ODAC page yet.  Congratulations to Adam Brazil and Coach Kimbrough for being selected the Region 6 Player of the Year and Coach of the Year respectfully.  Further congratulations to Nick Farrar of Guilford for being on the Region 6 1st Team with Brazil.  Jabril Robinson of Randolph-Macon and Joshua McClary of Roanoke were on the Region 6 2nd team.  Congratulations to all of these worthy honorees.

[Seatfiller]

H-SC needs an athletic, powerful rebounder and defender to complement Fernald.  Roanoke loses McClary, a really big loss, but will otherwise be intact.  Lynchburg returns 4 starters.  If VWU gets Deveaux back (not sure if he uses a medical redshirt for 23-24 season), they will have 4 starters back.  Tom Palombo always seems to find talent, but he sure does have a lot to replace.

I'm rooting for anybody except NYU.  3 of 5 starters and 5 of top 7 are grad student transfers.  With the Covid extra year ending with season, this shouldn't be an issue in the future, but it sure gives the large D3 universities with established grad schools an advantage.  I'd do the same thing in NYU's shoes, but I prefer the "home grown" talent. 

RC defintely out performed where everyone thought they would be.  The season ended on a sour note though when you're up 19 in the second half and lose but still just to be there was awesome. McClary had a great season and will defintely be missed.  RC had a player who would've started but tore something in his arm and missed the entire season, I'm hoping he comes back next year (he was a senior).  Either way RC should be pretty competitive.  RMC will be the front runner next year, like they almost always are.

I do agree with the other post above that was disappointed in with RMC and HSC's finishes.  I thought at least one would get near the final four, but they still had great seasons. To leave on a bright note VWU won the ECAC championship (basically seems like it was the NIT) against Salisbury 74-50.