MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[Jacketlawyer]

Jacketlawyer - Have you noticed that when we start to get all academic on these guys, they revert back to talking about basketball? Especially that Hasanova.  And, Algernon's computations are giving me a headache. These guys must be engineers and scientists!

Yes, I have, and you've got to love their focus.  I do.

Now where'd I put my Ritalin, anyway?  

[justafan02]

Now I know there is still one ODAC regular season game left and ofcoarse the ODAC tournament where anything can happen.  (I mean VWC could face Guilford again and it is tough to beat a very good team 3 times.)  However, IF and I did say IF, the Marlins run the remainder of the season's table:

1.)     Do they get a first round bye in the NCAA tourney

2.)     Do they host at the Batten Center throughout their existence in the tourney?

There was some discussion of this before and some doubt, but VWC was ranked 4-8 then.  Right now they are ranked #2 and have an identical record that they did last year when they were not even ranked in the top 5.  What do you all think?

[hasanova]

Math Majors.  MBAs.  Science Majors.  In some inexplicable freak of nature, however, they also learned how to write.  Go figure!  Statistically speaking, what are the odds of that happening?!  lol   Hint:  the solution requires a negative exponent.  

There once was a righteous debate
Do we write or just calculate?
When who's right aren't slide rulin'
They can write, I ain't foolin'!
But what's left - just articulate!

[hasanova]

Jacketlawyer - Have you noticed that when we start to get all academic on these guys, they revert back to talking about basketball? Especially that Hasanova.  And, Algernon's computations are giving me a headache. These guys must be engineers and scientists!

Hey, I "resemble" that remark.   Come on, jacketlawyer, tell JWW I'm not a one dimensional guy.  lol 

[Jacketlawyer]

Jacketlawyer - Have you noticed that when we start to get all academic on these guys, they revert back to talking about basketball? Especially that Hasanova.  And, Algernon's computations are giving me a headache. These guys must be engineers and scientists!

Hey, I "resemble" that remark.   Come on, jacketlawyer, tell JWW I'm not a one dimensional guy.  lol 

I'll vouch for ya, Hasa.  Usually do!!

[jdubyadubya]

You know you are old when....just the other night I was having a conversation with some young adults who had NO idea what a slide rule was!

[Pat Coleman]

They're not ranked No. 1 in the region. While it's certainly possible VWC could get a bye and MC not, the criteria would suggest otherwise.

[Brian Hamilton]

If I had to guess I would say that VWC will not get a first round bye because their are only 4 available (I think I'm right) and their are numerous teams that would likely receive them ahead of them because of regional rankings.  However, I am sure that geography would also come into play so anything is possible.

As far as home court, throughout, that is again possible but depends on which four teams are in the same bracket with VWC.  Geography will also play a part in this.  If VWC is in a bracket with 2 schools that are from Virginia or Maryland and then Maryville or Mississippi College, then I feel that they have a good chance of hosting.  If, on the other hand, they are paired with 3 teams from Pennsylvannia or New Jersey then they may have to travel.  It all comes back to money and determine the best route to ensure the fewest flights possible. 

I guess, therefore, we need to wait to see who they could possibly be paired with before we can make that determination.  Still a lot of basketball yet to be played. 

[hasanova]

Jacketlawyer - Have you noticed that when we start to get all academic on these guys, they revert back to talking about basketball? Especially that Hasanova.  And, Algernon's computations are giving me a headache. These guys must be engineers and scientists!

Hey, I "resemble" that remark.   Come on, jacketlawyer, tell JWW I'm not a one dimensional guy.  lol 

I'll vouch for ya, Hasa.  Usually do!!

Yes, you do, my friend, and I appreciate it! 

[hasanova]

You know you are old when....just the other night I was having a conversation with some young adults who had NO idea what a slide rule was!

Well, I can relate to that, but sometimes it's all about the rhyme. 

[David Collinge]

They're not ranked No. 1 in the region. While it's certainly possible VWC could get a bye and MC not, the criteria would suggest otherwise.

If I had to guess I would say that VWC will not get a first round bye because their are only 4 available (I think I'm right) and their are numerous teams that would likely receive them ahead of them because of regional rankings.  However, I am sure that geography would also come into play so anything is possible.

The 2007 Division III Men's Basketball Championship Handbook says very little about the byes (of which there are 5, not 4), but what it does say suggests that ranking/selection criteria and seeding have little or nothing to do with the selection of byes.  Logically, you would assume that seeding plays a role, but even in the seeding itself, the overriding factor is geography:

Pairings and Site Selection
Once automatic qualifiers are identified and the Pools B and C teams are selected, the following guidelines should be followed:
• Teams will be grouped in clusters according to natural geographic proximity. Teams will then be paired according to geographic proximity. A team may be moved to numerically balance the bracket if geographic proximity is maintained. Teams should be paired and eligible sites should be selected according to geographic proximity (within 500 miles).
• Teams may be seeded on a regional basis using the regional selection criteria. However, geographic proximity takes precedence over seeding.
• Teams from the same conference do not have to play one another in the first round as long as geographic proximity is maintained.
• The highest-seeded team that meets all selection criteria (and after a review of the submitted host materials) will be selected as the host institution, provided geographic proximity is maintained.
It is the intent of the committee to create competition brackets with a maximum of eight teams competing in each bracket. Flights will be kept to a minimum. The higher-seeded team at the sectional sites will have the opportunity to select which game time it prefers.  [emphasis added]

Here is literally all the Handbook has to say about the byes:

The Division III Championships Committee has approved a 59 team, single-elimination bracket for the Division III Men's Basketball Championship. Five teams will receive first-round byes. Five, two-team first-round matches will be played to determine the teams that advance to the second-round to play the five teams that received a first-round bye. [emphasis added]

Last year, the five byes went to these teams, with their rankings in the final published regional ranking:

Amherst (Northeast #1)
Lawrence (Midwest #1)
St. John Fisher (East #1)
Puget Sound (West #2)
Virginia Wesleyan (South #3)

From this tiny sample size, I'd guess that the allocation of byes is made first to address otherwise insoluable geographical problems (UPS, maybe VWC) and second to reward the top teams.  It's not easy to understand how Virginia Wesleyan got a bye last year, but the fact that they did I think bodes well for them this year (presuming that they prefer a bye over the chance to host a 4-team regional and wipe out some low seed in the first round.)

Without knowing who (and where) the other 54 teams are, I think it's well-nigh impossible to predict the byes beforehand.

[Pat Coleman]

VWC was second in the last published ranking, but Trinity, which was No. 2, lost in the quarterfinals of its conference tournament and likely fell below VWC on Selection Sunday.

For what it's worth.

[hasanova]

Congratulations to Quaker Ben Strong for being named to d3hoops.com's Team of the Week for Feb. 5-11.  In Guilford's 3-0 week, Ben scored 79 points, got 32 rebounds and had seven assists.  Among other noteworthy stats, he was 14 of 15 from the floor versus BC and 13 of 15 from the line versus EMU.  Super!

[David Collinge]

VWC was second in the last published ranking, but Trinity, which was No. 2, lost in the quarterfinals of its conference tournament and likely fell below VWC on Selection Sunday.

For what it's worth.

Well, I must be missing something, since the last published ranking that I can find (in the Daily Dose) had VWC third behind Mississippi College and Trinity.  MC didn't lose again until the sweet sixteen, having won the ASC tournament and hosted a 4-team regional with geographic orphan Trinity and the two Maryvilles, which IIRC are both barely within 500 miles of Clinton.  I suppose it's possible that VWC leapfrogged MC in the secret final poll, and that might explain why they got a bye and not the Chocs.  At the time, it sure seemed to me that MC was in a good position in both seeding and geography to get a bye, and I was surprised when they didn't.

It's all a mystery, and I was trying to make two points:
1) We don't know what goes into the selection of the 5 bye teams, but we do know that geography can be a factor, and
2) VWC was in a fairly comparable position last year, and they did get a bye, so that bodes well for them for this year.

[Pat Coleman]

Right -- we both used the term "published" ranking for a reason.