MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[hasanova]

It's 6:10 pm and E&H still hasn't posted a story or a boxscore on the GC game, which ended before 4 pm.  What's their usual "timetable"? 

E&H? Measure with a calendar or sundial.

Funny.  lol  At least you had a "timely" response to my question.

[sludge]

Final at Emory:  Guilford 108, E&H 107.

The Quakers trailed 101-93 with about 4 minutes to go, but outstanding "Free Throw Defense" at the end was eerily reminiscent of the Jan. 31 game at W&L.  Ben Strong fouled out with 4.7 seconds to go and E&H's Anthony Hairston went to the line to shoot two, with the Wasps trailing by one, 108-107.  Hairston missed both, the Wasps got the final rebound, but could not convert.  The Quakers hung on for the win!  Whew! ...

At Emory&Henry today, that was the most shameless case of home cooking by the refs that I've seen in years.  I don't know if that also happens in other games there, but today it was flagrant.  That's all I'm gonna say on that, I just had to get it out.  The Muckraker says I'm starting to sound like a Hampden-Sydney fan.  

I don't say it to detract from E&H's program turnaround or hot second half shooting or court hustle.

Great job by Guilford players to hang in there.

My heart goes out to W&L this season, for so many close losses.  I think they're on an uptrend.

Surprising crushage by the Tigers today.  I wouldn't have figured on that.

[sludge]

Any notions on ODAC P.O.Y.?

[Brian Hamilton]

Alright sludge,

I'll take my licks for blaming officials, but I think everyone agrees that the refs are not consistent enough on a play-to-play basis much less a game-to-game basis for the players to know what will and will not be called.  I hate to see teams get penalized because of poor officiating, no matter who it is.  I guess I will just have to learn to deal with the officials, but I still don't have to like it!

By the way, anyone going to be at the E&H - Sydney game at 3:00 on Thursday.  I think I am going to take off at 12:00 and go up!  Good luck to all of the teams in the tournament and everyone drive safely if your going to Salem.

[ODACfan1]

just got back home after the emory-guilford game...i just am a little upset about sludge's coments.  these two teams played their hearts out and it was truly sad to see someone lose...both teams have probably the two classiest coaches in the nation...emorys seniors showed some big time class and respect by honoring coach johnsons wife before the game...as well guilfords players were very respectful towards emory's seniors...the refs did not decide the game...it was a classic...sludge we will see yall again

[algernon]

Any notions on ODAC P.O.Y.?

Adair or Strong, no doubt.

[sludge]

just got back home after the emory-guilford game...i just am a little upset about sludge's coments.  these two teams played their hearts out and it was truly sad to see someone lose...both teams have probably the two classiest coaches in the nation...emorys seniors showed some big time class and respect by honoring coach johnsons wife before the game...as well guilfords players were very respectful towards emory's seniors...the refs did not decide the game...it was a classic...sludge we will see yall again

I agree it was classic.  Nearly everyone said it was the most intense game they had ever seen on any level. 
Sorry to offend, please accept my apologies for that.

[hasanova]

Since I wasn't at the game and only listened on the broadcast, I don't feel as though I can or should make any armchair observations about the officiating.  I will say, however, that the announcers talked about how inconsistent the calls were throughout the whole game and Coach Palombo got a technical complaining to the referees.  The former is something I rarely hear the Quaker broadcasters do and the latter is something I personally don't remember happening to Coach Palombo.

I will say unequivocably that the Guilford coaching staff teaches their players to demonstrate good sportsmanship and respect to the officials, coaches, players and fans - on both sides.  I wish I could have been there!  E&H and GC have played some "doozies" the past few years.  When I saw the Quakers had to travel to Emory for Senior Day to end this season, I got nervous and the game proved my fears to be well-founded!     

[hasanova]

Any notions on ODAC P.O.Y.?

Strong.

[steelyglen]

WEEK 14 RESULTS for the ODAC PICK'EM

algernon           99-37   .728   8-1
and1wasp        92-35    .724  8-1
brianhamilton   94-38    .712  7-2
llamaguy          87-36     .707  4-1
baselinejam     91-38     .705  6-3
jastafan02       86-37     .699  6-3
jaydubyadubya 94-43    .686  7-2
X                      92-44     .677  8-1
jacketlawyer    92-45     .672  7-2

-----------------under 85%

kid                    48-12    .800   8-1


"jimmy" my obligation is done!

[baselinejam]

AHHHHHRGGHH!

Tie score & we have the ball with 4 seconds left shoot, block, rebound the ball pops loose & we lose another at the buzzer!

Let's see if we can make some magic against VW?

[algernon]

Personally, I have to go with Adair.  Here are some relevant stats for the 2 of them, plus Sager, who I think is the 3rd absolutely certain 1st teamer ....

SCORING
STRONG, Ben-GC........... 24.0
ADAIR, Brandon-VWC....... 18.0
SAGER, Jason-EMU......... 17.5

REBOUNDING
STRONG, Ben-GC........... 11.0
SAGER, Jason-EMU......... 8.1
ADAIR, Brandon-VWC....... 7.8

FIELD GOAL PCT
ADAIR, Brandon-VWC........  .679
STRONG, Ben-GC............    .574
SAGER, Jason-EMU..........   .513

I'd go with Adair for a few reasons:  (1) having seen both play, Adair is even more impressive than Strong, who is also tremendous, (2) Adair may have fewer points and rebounds, but I think that the Marlins' game centers around him less, and (3) just look at Adair's ability to score when he takes a shot .... over 67% field goal percentage! .... and (4) his team beat Strong's team twice.

I remember that both T. J. Grimes and Jeff Monroe were All-Americans (twice, for Jeff), without either ever leading the ODAC in points or rebounds.  That shouldn't be the only criteria for post men, either.

I'd be interested in hearing what others think.

[sludge]

Personally, I have to go with Adair.  Here are some relevant stats for the 2 of them, plus Sager, who I think is the 3rd absolutely certain 1st teamer ....

SCORING
STRONG, Ben-GC........... 24.0
ADAIR, Brandon-VWC....... 18.0
SAGER, Jason-EMU......... 17.5

REBOUNDING
STRONG, Ben-GC........... 11.0
SAGER, Jason-EMU......... 8.1
ADAIR, Brandon-VWC....... 7.8

FIELD GOAL PCT
ADAIR, Brandon-VWC........  .679
STRONG, Ben-GC............    .574
SAGER, Jason-EMU..........   .513

I'd go with Adair for a few reasons:  (1) having seen both play, Adair is even more impressive than Strong, who is also tremendous, (2) Adair may have fewer points and rebounds, but I think that the Marlins' game centers around him less, and (3) just look at Adair's ability to score when he takes a shot .... over 67% field goal percentage! .... and (4) his team beat Strong's team twice.

I remember that both T. J. Grimes and Jeff Monroe were All-Americans (twice, for Jeff), without either ever leading the ODAC in points or rebounds.  That shouldn't be the only criteria for post men, either.

I'd be interested in hearing what others think.

I think the POY case is clear for Strong, so I'll build on your commentary.  I agree with your points about Adair's remarkable strengths.  I also agree completely about Sager, he's impressive no doubt. 

The difference in scoring and rebounding between the two players is large.  Subtract that difference from Adair's figures, and see how far down the list that gets you.  Scoring and rebounding do take large amounts of energy.  Strong is the only player in the country in the top ten in both scoring and rebounding.  He's all-American material.

Free throw percentage:  Strong .795, Adair .538.  This somewhat compensates for Adair's incredible and admirable efficiency on the floor.  It also means that I'd rather have the ball in Strong's hands at the end of a close game.

Blocks:  Strong. 
Steals:  Adair.

For comparables, How do they both perform (points and rebounds) in team losses?  Strong, by a wide margin, was doing more to bring those losses in as wins.
Strong
18 - 6  VWC
29 - 13 Roanke
30 - 14 VWC
Adair
4 - 6 AU
6 - 7 UMH-B
17 - 7 E&H

How did they perform head-to-head?
Guilford At VWC: pretty much a wash 
Adair   20 - 5
Strong 18 - 6

VWC At Guilford:  Strong by alot.
Adair   13 - 9
Strong 30 - 14

Head to head totals: favor Strong.
Adair    33 - 14
Strong  49 - 20

Strong hasn't had the luxury of always being able to pick and choose his shots.  When he does, you'll see his efficiency rise higher.

I'm not arguing here over who has had the better team so far this year.  Maybe we'll see those teams play again!  One more thing about Adair:  I think he's a classy player, not a trashmouth, and the same is true for Strong.

I don't think the players care much.  They want to win and go deep into the postseason.  After the ODAC tournament, I wish VWC great success, whenever they're not playing Guilford!

Somewhere for the all-conference we've got to figure a way to honor point guards, who may not have many tracked stats, but who are true lynchpins.

[algernon]

Thanks for the statistical input, sludge.  It's all good to think about.

I think the head-to-head favors Adair, though.  He may not have scored or rebounded as much as Strong in those 2 games, but his only focus was winning.    In that regard, he played the leading role for the Marlins, averaging 16.5 points and 7.0 rebounds across the 2 games, and his team won both times -- once by a quite substantial margin.

Adair's Field Goal Pct. is currently 2nd in all of DIII.  (He's hit 67.9% of his shots, while Michael Romes, of Mount St. Joseph's, made 68.0% of his shots.)  Adair makes only 11.7 attempts a game (280 total).  Strong, in contrast, is averaging 15.9 attempts a game (382 total).  And, while Strong has 102 more FGA than Adair, he has only 32 more FG.  ............ So my feeling is that Adair doesn't need to shoot more than what he has been shooting.  He's doing what the coach needs.  The Marlins are most effective when Adair does just what he has been doing all of last season and again this season.  When he puts one up, Adair is more likely to score than anyone in the country, with the exception of Romes.

Having watched both players many times and being tremendously impressed by both, what I like most about Adair is that he is completely in the middle of things, both offensively and defensively.  He has 58 assists (compared to 31 for Strong) and 31 steals (compared to 10 for Strong), with only 33 turnovers (compared to 53 for Strong).  Adair isn't listed in the ODAC ranking for Assist/Turnover Ratio, because he doesn't have the required 3.0 assists/game (having only 2.4 assists/game).  However, if Adair had a sufficient number of assists to be ranked, he would come in at 5th with a 1.76 A/TO ratio, just ahead of Guilford's Thomas Burge.

Both of these players deserve POY honors, just as both Justin Call and Jeff Monroe deserved ODAC POY honors in 2004.  I guess that won't happen, although it would seem to be a good solution to having two very outstanding players in the ODAC.  Both are deserving of All-American honors, without a doubt.

I agree that, while this is an interesting discussion, the players are most concerned with going deep into the postseason.  Both teams could and I would be happy to see Guilford in a quarter of the bracket with schools from the South, Ohio, and Indiana .... with Virginia Wesleyan bracketed with the Maryland, Pennsylvania and New Jersey colleges.

[GP87]

Any notions on ODAC P.O.Y.?

The last two years I have not seen a game, save maybe one, that Adair was not obviously the best player on the floor.  (That one game was against Lincoln in the tourney last year). I think the statistics even out in the end, given the roles the two have accepted on their respective teams.  However, as Algernon says, Adair won both head to head games; one wasn't close.  Given this and the fact that he's the returning national POY, I favor him to win it.  We can debate this forever and it will never be settled in full.  I can't decide personally, but they should both be All-Americans.

I'm just hoping for some high level postseason basketball from both sides.