MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[allsky7]

Regarding the handshakes, after such incredible effort and such keen disappointment, would I (in all my glorious maturity) have been quick to shake hands?   Maybe. 
I hereby give the Sludge Certification of Permission to young people to sometimes make mistakes.  Be not unkind to them.

I'll bet by now they are proud and becoming happy, though.
They should be.

    As someone mentioned in an earlier post about players being able to take the heat.....if they can take the heat of being in the final four, I think they can take the heat on this one. First let me say congrats to VWC on a great year and for making the ODAC proud. As for the handshake...let's not sugarcoat it. I was not there but based on what I have read, they should have stood up and shook hands with the Amherst players...PERIOD!! No excuses. Being disappointed at the loss is not a valid reason. Young people do make mistakes but sportmanship is a lesson that should have been learned many years ago for these players. I am confident that VWC runs a class program. I am likewise confident that the individual players are class guys and will go on and make positive contributions to the world. On the scale of life events, this may not be earth shattering, but any lesson that makes you a better human being is worthwhile. Hopefully, they can realize that and learn from it.

[hasanova]

Thanks to everyone who congratulated the Quakers, Coach Palombo and Ben Strong on their stellar season.  I posted in late October or early November that I thought this would be an over 20 win breakthrough season and, gladly, my prediction was right.  Everyone wants to be in the Final Four, of course, but that nine day postseason stretch from March 2-10 was worth the wait.  

Every serious DIII observer should acknowledge the ODAC had a great season.  VWC came up just short of the ultimate prize, but they've been a national force for several years.  When you blend in Guilford and Hampden-Sydney to the NCAA mix, I think Pat Coleman's inclusion of the ODAC in his Top 6 conferences sounds about right.  Hopefully, top to bottom, the league can justify it with more great play in 2007-08.

The Guilford College Quakers, in my opinion, are poised to have another very good season next year.   The key is a productive and healthy Ben Strong in his Senior season, but there are other reasons to be optimistic.  Yes, GC lost Snipes and Burge, but look who's returning.  Belkoski and Kimbrough will probably start again and I expect 6'10" Tyler Sanborn to get even more playing time in the frontcourt.  His fellow sophomores Henson and Strickland may be starters in the backcourt.  The team's success this year can only help recruiting, so I look for some good players to join the program.  Guilford basketball "feels" like I remember it from its heyday, so let me be one of many to say "Welcome back!"

[diehardfan]

    As someone mentioned in an earlier post about players being able to take the heat.....if they can take the heat of being in the final four, I think they can take the heat on this one. First let me say congrats to VWC on a great year and for making the ODAC proud. As for the handshake...let's not sugarcoat it. I was not there but based on what I have read, they should have stood up and shook hands with the Amherst players...PERIOD!! No excuses. Being disappointed at the loss is not a valid reason. Young people do make mistakes but sportsmanship is a lesson that should have been learned many years ago for these players. I am confident that VWC runs a class program. I am likewise confident that the individual players are class guys and will go on and make positive contributions to the world. On the scale of life events, this may not be earth shattering, but any lesson that makes you a better human being is worthwhile. Hopefully, they can realize that and learn from it.

Well said allsky. Thanks for stating it better than I did.

hasanova: When asked on the fly in the championship post game discussion, some of the d3hoops.com guys noted the Quakers as a likely early favorite to get to Salem next year, would be fun if they are right!

[David Collinge]

I think it's worth pointing out the actions of the Amherst players at the end of the game.  They could have been celebrating with their teammates and fans, but still they lined up for the traditional post-game handshake.  When the handshake never materialized, they could easily have just blown it off and gone off to celebrate instead.  But they didn't.  To a man, they went over to the Va. Wesleyan bench to congratulate the Marlins before heading off to celebrate.  I thought that showed real class, and set a very high bar for all of us (not just the VWC players and coaches, but all of us) to live up to.

[hasanova]

hasanova: When asked on the fly in the championship post game discussion, some of the d3hoops.com guys noted the Quakers as a likely early favorite to get to Salem next year, would be fun if they are right!

Hey, diehardfan.  First, thanks for your timely and straightforward posts.  Second, I wondered what folks on the national scene thought about the Quakers and their chances for 2007-08, so it's good to get that sort of insider feedback.  I've hoped Guilford was poised for that sort of run, but I know a lot of things have to fall into place - including lack of injuries and just plain good luck at times.  Certainly, the Quakers will go as Strong goes and I think he's primed for a great season next winter.  If he equals or even tops this year, watch out.  Snipes and Burge were such key parts of their success, however, I am a little reserved until I see which sophomores step up or which new recruit may be an impact player.  As I mentioned earlier, expect 6'10" Tyler Sanborn to play more and often at the same time as Strong.  There won't be many DIII teams that could match that height in the frontcourt.  Strickland and Henson, I think, are also ready for bigger roles.  Anticipation will be high this summer in Greensboro, so I hope your prognosticators are right! 

[hasanova]

I think it's worth pointing out the actions of the Amherst players at the end of the game.  They could have been celebrating with their teammates and fans, but still they lined up for the traditional post-game handshake.  When the handshake never materialized, they could easily have just blown it off and gone off to celebrate instead.  But they didn't.  To a man, they went over to the Va. Wesleyan bench to congratulate the Marlins before heading off to celebrate.  I thought that showed real class, and set a very high bar for all of us (not just the VWC players and coaches, but all of us) to live up to.

I didn't see the game and have only begun to hear about how the postgame activities went via this forum, but I'm bothered by what I read.  I was taught to win - and lose - with dignity, grace and humility.  It's certainly okay to be disappointed if you don't win.  Winners expect to win.  If you don't visualize yourself accepting the trophy, then you've almost lost before you step on the court.  It is not, however, in my opinion, okay to sit idly while the champion reaches out to you.   From my personal experience and training, I don't fully understand why this happened, but in hindsight the Marlins would have literally and figuratively stood taller if they had risen, looked the Lord Jeffs squarely in the eyes and said, "Congratulations.  Today, you deserved to win."   I'm sure after a period of introspection, the VWC players will realize there was a better way.  They are a great team and great teams evolve.

Anyway, congratulations again to Amherst.  Thank you for showing us great basketball - and great sportsmanship - the DIII way.

[fpc85]

I think it's worth pointing out the actions of the Amherst players at the end of the game.  They could have been celebrating with their teammates and fans, but still they lined up for the traditional post-game handshake.  When the handshake never materialized, they could easily have just blown it off and gone off to celebrate instead.  But they didn't.  To a man, they went over to the Va. Wesleyan bench to congratulate the Marlins before heading off to celebrate.  I thought that showed real class, and set a very high bar for all of us (not just the VWC players and coaches, but all of us) to live up to.

I didn't see the game and have only begun to hear about how the postgame activities went via this forum, but I'm bothered by what I read.  I was taught to win - and lose - with dignity, grace and humility.  It's certainly okay to be disappointed if you don't win.  Winners expect to win.  If you don't visualize yourself accepting the trophy, then you've almost lost before you step on the court.  It is not, however, in my opinion, okay to sit idly while the champion reaches out to you.   From my personal experience and training, I don't fully understand why this happened, but in hindsight the Marlins would have literally and figuratively stood taller if they had risen, looked the Lord Jeffs squarely in the eyes and said, "Congratulations.  Today, you deserved to win."   I'm sure after a period of introspection, the VWC players will realize there was a better way.  They are a great team and great teams evolve.

Anyway, congratulations again to Amherst.  Thank you for showing us great basketball - and great sportsmanship - the DIII way.

Sometimes players let the emotion of the situation get the best of them. What I don't undertstand is where were the coaches when this was going on?

[justafan02]

This has to be said, even though I know it's going to get me into trouble. Please bear in mind here that I'm an unbiased fan, and a Virginia native, so I hardly would have minded if VA Wes won.

With that said, I thought it was incredibly classless for the Va Wes players not to get off their butts and stand up and shake the hands of the players on the Amherst team. The Amherst team spent a whopping 5-10 seconds celebrating before lining up to go over to the Va Wes bench, only to have to do things like pat the guys on the back from Va Wes who, aside from a few exceptions, barely acknowledged their presence. I understand that it sucks not to win. But there's really no excuse for that.

You know you have a point and I know what your are talking about.  The only part that really bothered me was that the down the line guys or guys that didn't play at all, just sat on the bench.  That was the worst part.  Outside of that Amherst showed a ton of class...

[baselinejam]

I saw the Marlins play twice. Their pregame entrance struck me as a little over the top; 2 lines encircling the court as they do a lap by lay up lines of their opponent. The loud and and boisterous group huddle etc. By itself it might be insignificant. Then I hear about an Marlin players outspoken behavior at he ODAC hoop dinner (unsolicited info that I heard from multiple sources). On this board we learned about attitude problems. Now the unfortunate  display of poor sportsmanship at the end of championship game. Any one item you'd probably let it go; but as you hear & see more and more;then maybe things aren't so pretty in VW land.  We can all do the "PC" thing, saying it's a great team" and "they're just kids" etc. At the end of the day, teams will do what their coach wants them to do or will let them do.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

First off - it was disappointing to see the VWC players just sitting down after the game. I agree with everyone that congratulating their opponents certainly was the classier and more mature way of handling that.

Someone asked about the coaches... I can't remember exactly what they did while their players sat... but I do remember they were standing on the court, applauding Amherst and their team as the clock ran down. I then believe I saw them proceed to congratulate the Amherst team (handshakes)... not sure why the team didn't follow.

Secondly - I am one who think that Guilford will be the leader of the ODAC next year. Baring and major injuries or the team not being able to gell as a semi-new unit, there isn't any reason they can't improve on this season. That being said, they need to find a weapon to replace Snipes and need to improve in their handling the ball under pressure. However, Strong proved that even when he is the focus of the defense, he can get the job done. They certainly need to find a shooter or two that is consistent to at least take some of the pressure off Strong.

[hasanova]

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/

The final d3hoops.com poll is posted.  Predictably, the top 4 slots follow the results in the Final Four, but after that it's pretty interesting.  The ODAC has two spots, with VWC in 2nd and Guilford's nice NCAA showing pushing the Quakers to a record #7 slot (they were 19th) and 424 points in the voting.  Congratulations to the Marlins and GC for their great seasons!

[hasanova]

Secondly - I am one who think that Guilford will be the leader of the ODAC next year. Baring and major injuries or the team not being able to gell as a semi-new unit, there isn't any reason they can't improve on this season. That being said, they need to find a weapon to replace Snipes and need to improve in their handling the ball under pressure. However, Strong proved that even when he is the focus of the defense, he can get the job done. They certainly need to find a shooter or two that is consistent to at least take some of the pressure off Strong.

Dave, thanks for your positive comments and also your concerns about the Quakers.  I saw them play 11 times this season and listened to almost all of the other 18 games.  I agree with your assessment.

First, Strong just seems to get better and better.  I fully expect him to have a great season in 2007-08.  Maybe some freshman phenom will arrive at one of the other ODAC schools, but unless he does, who's going to stop Ben over the whole season?  Second, Tyler Sanborn got better as the season progressed.  Palombo's strategy seems to be to get freshmen steadily involved in the game with more responsibility as the season - and they - mature.  Even Strong was a 9.2 ppg back-up Center as a freshman.  I expect to see Tyler playing more and, perhaps, often at the same time as Strong.

Third, Snipes will be a legend at Guilford ("The Shot I" and "The Shot II" will guarantee that), but others will fill the void.  Expect Strickland, Henson, Kimbrough, Edmond and a rookie (TBA?) to be very capable performers.  I think Belkoski (F) will shoot more in 2007-08 and Neville will still be a capable reserve.

If I had to guess at a starting line-up, it might be Strong (C/F), Belkoski (small forward), Sanborn (power forward/C), Kimbrough (PG) and Strickland (shooting guard).  Being a starter at Guilford often doesn't mean much, so I see Henson, Neville and Edmond getting lots of time off the bench.  At 6'6", Barry Wells can also be a capable reserve if he works on his game.  He can rebound well, but doesn't seem to have a shooter's touch.  With all due respect to VWC and others, I sincerely think the Quakers will be the preseason favorite in the ODAC next November.             

[coopersharpe]

I am already looking forward to next year too Hasanova.  Just talked to Strong and he received the NABC National Player of the year as well.  He will be travleing to Atlanta for the NCAA final four to receive his award.  As far as the starters though I see Caleb, Clay, Strickland, Belkoski, and Strong starting next year.  With Tyler and Neville coming of the bench inside.  I see now reason why they should not be a preseason top 10 team, or maybe even a favorite.  This team will miss Jordan and Thomas, but have no excuses not to be better this coming up year than they were this previous year, which is scary.  I may be wrong about the starters but even though Belkoski is undersized he and Strong have been playing down low together for 3 years.  But it could be fun to move him to the wing and start the big fellas down low.  6'10, 6'11 is a presence, especially in DIII

[DeWayneCarter]

Regarding the handshakes, after such incredible effort and such keen disappointment, would I (in all my glorious maturity) have been quick to shake hands?   Maybe. 
I hereby give the Sludge Certification of Permission to young people to sometimes make mistakes.  Be not unkind to them.

I'll bet by now they are proud and becoming happy, though.
They should be.

Agreed that they have a lot to be happy about. I hope they realize it and the seniors walk away from the season proud of their accomplishments.

On the other hand, quick to shake hands is one thing, forgetting to shake hands is another level, and refusing to stand up shake the hands of the players who came all the way to your bench to shake your hands is another level.

Forgiveness, sure... in all things grace and understanding. But lets not pretend this was just an absent minded thing in the heat of the moment. It was a conscious decision at that third level, and they made the wrong one. And if young people on a basketball team make mistakes like this in regards to sportsmanship, a coach should have noticed it and encouraged them do the right thing.

This is one of several sour memories I will carry away from this season about poor sportsmanship. Lincoln demonstrated how to win ungracefully, and got national attention for it in the coming weeks. VWC demonstrated, on live TV, how to lose ungracefully... and I'm far from the only one who noticed.

Normally, when one loses a National Championship game and are going for their second straight and lose, they are disappointed. They put up a valiant effort and came up short and were disappointed... even though they didn't shake hand no one was telling them not to. They were disappointed that they lost the game... its not like they had their backs turned... they were crying that they came up short..... 95% of college players who lost a national championship game and played their hearts out doing so cry after they lose.... Adam Morrison even cried like a baby DURING Gonzaga's loss to UCLA, and no one called him a bad sport so I don't think that we should be all over VWC for this... instead we should be congratulating them on representing the ODAC in the championship game for the 2nd straight season and wishing them good luck.... but then again when you're at the top there are always haters.

[justafan02]

I saw the Marlins play twice. Their pregame entrance struck me as a little over the top; 2 lines encircling the court as they do a lap by lay up lines of their opponent. The loud and and boisterous group huddle etc. By itself it might be insignificant. Then I hear about an Marlin players outspoken behavior at he ODAC hoop dinner (unsolicited info that I heard from multiple sources). On this board we learned about attitude problems. Now the unfortunate  display of poor sportsmanship at the end of championship game. Any one item you'd probably let it go; but as you hear & see more and more;then maybe things aren't so pretty in VW land.  We can all do the "PC" thing, saying it's a great team" and "they're just kids" etc. At the end of the day, teams will do what their coach wants them to do or will let them do.

Ok, Ok, Ok... if you have a gripe about the end of the Championship game...fair enough.  However...we are bringing up ODAC dinner hearsay and pre-game stuff???... Come On!!!  The Marlin's are down so let's kick them....if it was such a big deal you should have mentioned that when it happened...not after the fact.  Give me a break.

Look, the kids lost the National Championship...and SOME of the players not all...sulked on the bench (as we all would have to an extint)....should they have shaken hands...sure...but to nag about other stuff now and pin that on them to me just means you're trying to rattle things up etc....


The original point was made...everyone agreed to an extint now let us move on and start to enjoy the great season the ODAC had....

Congrats to Ben Strong!!!