MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[algernon]

Since it costs a grip to go to most Division 3 schools, and particularly the ones in the ODAC, are there many cases of impact players transferring to other schools because they can't afford tuition at their respective schools?

I'm not sure that transferring to another school because of tuition has been much of an issue at HSC.  All the transfers I can think of have transferred because of lack of playing time or other issues.  Marcellus Morgan got more playing time at Greensboro than he would have gotten at HSC.  A. J. Dalton preferred the Roanoke College environment, for whatever reasons, and I don't think it had anything to do with money or (probably) even playing time.  The other guys who have transferred away were getting so little playing time that I really can't remember their names!  I really can't think of a single player in the past 10+ years who has transferred away from HSC because he can't afford HSC tuition.

The reality is that there is a lot of need-based aid at DIII schools.  HSC will charge something around $35,000 for tuition, room, and board next year; however, many of our students "Estimated Financial Contribution" will be far less than $35,000 (even students whose family income is $100,000+ a year) and need-based aid is available to make it possible for students to attend DIII institutions.

HSC's basketball players have been and will be from a variety of backgrounds and socioeconomic levels.  Need-based aid makes it possible for even poor kids to attend private schools.

[algernon]

Brian, I am disappointed in you.  You should have your Tiger history down cold.  Mike Thompson was a freshman with Brandon, Jeff, and Jason.  David Willson joined them from SMU the next year.

1999:  HSC is National Finalist.
2000:  Enter Jeff Monroe, Brandon Randall, Jason Holman, and Mike Thompson (with David Willson transferring in the following year).

2003:  HSC to the Final Four.
2004:  Enter Troy Kaase, Drew Prehmus, Tyler Murray, and A. J. Dalton (who transferred out the following year).

Prehmus and Murray were instrumental to this year's ODAC Championship, and the team might very well have made it to the Sweet Sixteen, if not for those nasty Marlins ...  ...  Who knows how things might have gone with Kaase still in the middle at the end of the season?!

NEXT YEAR:  Troy Kaase will be back.  Prehmus, Murray, and Turner King return, as do other key players.  Will the Tigers get another real solid freshman contributor, like King?  Watch out, Virginia Wesleyan and Guilford!

[tigerfanalso]

Algernon

I respect your opinion but if the Tigers are going to compete with Guilford next year they are in need of one hell of a recruiting class. Kasse, Prehmus, Murray, King all are good; Medlin & Laakso came on strong at the end, but those six players can't go it alone and there is no other Tiger returning that made much of a contribution with the possible exception of Lawton. With the returning players the Tigers will be weak at the guard position and much better than average underneath, assuming Kasse comes back at full strength. As you know Green & Edwards were the best guards on the team with really no one off the bench close to matching their ability.I'm pulling for a strong recruiting class, particularly at the 1 & 2 positions.

[algernon]

Tigerfanalso .... I think that you consistently underrate the Tigers.  They won the ODAC championship this year who knows how far they might have gone if they hadn't played the National Runnerup in the 2nd round!  They certainly had an awful game in Guilford this year, but only lost their home game against the Quakers at the buzzer.  There's no reason to think that they won't do as well or better next year.

I'm not sure why you say that Green & Edwards were the best guards on the team, since Prehmus and King are also guards and were certainly top-rate performers.  Prehmus may have been a little off from his sophomore year, but he still got more minutes than any other Tiger except Matt Green, which says something about how much the coach wanted him on the floor.  While Edwards stepped it up at the end of this season in a big way, so did Tyler Murray (who is returning).  I am sure that someone will have a surprisingly great year next year, as was the case with Kaase's sophomore year and the last third of Edwards' senior year.

Kaase, Prehmus, Murray, and King are better than just "good".  Every one of these 4 guys is likely to average 12+ points a game next year.  On top of that, it's clear that Medlin improved much over his freshman year.  I think that he shows promise of being very good as a sophomore.  Laakso was better in his sophomore year than in his freshman year, without any doubt, and I know that his strong work ethic will continue to pay off in improved skills.  The same can be said for Byron Lawton.

By my calculation, the Tigers will have a starting 4 next year that are clearly among the best 15-20 players in the conference.  Add Medlin, Laakso, and Lawton ..... and a freshman or two that is able to immediately have an impact .... think of Edwards in 2003-04, Prehmus in 2004-05, and King in 2006-07 .... and the Tigers will have a solid 8 players that will compete well with any team in the conference.

Guilford will be a great team -- no doubt about it -- but the Quakers are losing as much to graduation as the Tigers, if not more.  Snipes scored more than 25% of their points this year and Burge made a real contribution.

I think that the ODAC is going to have a bunch of solid teams and figure that Guilford, HSC, Virginia Wesleyan, and Roanoke will be fighting it out at the top.  It's unlikely that any team will finish with the 17-1 record that the Marlins achieved this year.  Don't be surprised if the Tigers win their 8th ODAC Championship in 12 years (1997, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2007, 2008).

[hasanova]

Guilford will be a great team -- no doubt about it -- but the Quakers are losing as much to graduation as the Tigers, if not more.  Snipes scored more than 25% of their points this year and Burge made a real contribution.

algernon, there's absolutely no question that Snipes will be sorely missed, but you may be overstating his offensive role just a bit.  His 511 points in 29 starts (17.6 ppg) were actually 20.8% of Guilford's 2457 total points in 2006-07.  Clearly, a very significant amount, but not quite as much as your post would imply.  As you mentioned, Burge was also a key contributor, so the Quakers will definitely have to fill two big roles.  I agree, by the way, the ODAC race should be a lot more competitive next season - it's still March and I can't wait!  lol

[Brian Hamilton]

I would even throw Fitz in the equation.  He did not get a lot of playing time, but when he did play I was impressed.  His quickness and athleticism allow him to play tough defense and he is a decent ballhandler.  I think he could make some very positive contributions to the team next year.  Remember that basketball is more than scoring.  Kevin Garst was a great player but was not a huge scorer.  His defense, however, was very important to the 1998-99 National Runner-ups.  I also think that Trops and Kittrell could make positive contributions.  Both had defensive and foul issues that they need to work on, but both also showed that they could be valuable assets to the team.  In fact, Kittrell reminds me a little of Lane Brooks in his first few years at HSC when he got into lots of foul trouble.  I agree with algernon, the cupboard is not as bare as some may believe.  I think the Tigers can and will challenge Guilford at the top.  They will have to make sure that they win the games they are supposed to though.

Any predictions on where teams will finish next season without knowing about recruits yet?

[jdubyadubya]

VWC
HSC
GC
Roanoke
RMC
E&H
W&L
BC
EMU
LC

[hasanova]

I think (perhaps hope and pray are more accurate lol) the Quakers will win their first ODAC title next year, but I predict it'll be a season in which the winner has about three losses. 

[jdubyadubya]

Nova - I'm reminded of the classic Ani DiFranco hit, "Wishin' and hopin', and thinkin' and prayin' "

[algernon]

His 511 points in 29 starts (17.6 ppg) were actually 20.8% of Guilford's 2457 total points in 2006-07.  Clearly, a very significant amount, but not quite as much as your post would imply. 

You're right.  I looked at it too quickly and did the math in my head.  Snipes contribution was 20.8% of the point total, as you say.

During the tournament, Edwards probably had that big a percentage of the Tigers' points .... perhaps even 25% of their points.  He will be missed.

[algernon]

I would even throw Fitz in the equation.  He did not get a lot of playing time, but when he did play I was impressed.  His quickness and athleticism allow him to play tough defense and he is a decent ballhandler.  I think he could make some very positive contributions to the team next year.  Remember that basketball is more than scoring.  Kevin Garst was a great player but was not a huge scorer.  His defense, however, was very important to the 1998-99 National Runner-ups.  I also think that Trops and Kittrell could make positive contributions.  Both had defensive and foul issues that they need to work on, but both also showed that they could be valuable assets to the team.  In fact, Kittrell reminds me a little of Lane Brooks in his first few years at HSC when he got into lots of foul trouble.

Brian .... I agree with everything you've said and really can't believe that I completely forgot Fitz.  As you say, he did not get a lot of playing time this year, but his quickness and defensive energy when he was on the court were very impressive.  He could be a "Tiger surprise" next year.

Kittrell could contribute more in the middle next year, for sure, but he's going to have to really work to get playing time, with Kaase, Medlin, and Laakso playing the post positions, and Tyler Murray sometimes getting some of those minutes.

[hasanova]

Nova - I'm reminded of the classic Ani DiFranco hit, "Wishin' and hopin', and thinkin' and prayin' "

Good association!  lol  I certainly remember the song, but didn't remember the singer.  You have a great memory!

[hasanova]

His 511 points in 29 starts (17.6 ppg) were actually 20.8% of Guilford's 2457 total points in 2006-07.  Clearly, a very significant amount, but not quite as much as your post would imply. 

You're right.  I looked at it too quickly and did the math in my head.  Snipes contribution was 20.8% of the point total, as you say.

During the tournament, Edwards probably had that big a percentage of the Tigers' points .... perhaps even 25% of their points.  He will be missed.

I understand completely.  Players such as Snipes and Edwards who score 20-30% of their team's points are rare gifts.  What's even scarier for the Quakers will be the post-Strong era  (I didn't mean to make a joke, but since I did, I'll "post" it!).  Ben's 737 points were almost exactly 30% of Guilford's 2006-07 total!  I'll certainly enjoy his stellar play another year, but a center such as #42 clearly doesn't come along very often in DIII!

[Jacketlawyer]

Enjoying the Tiger talk today.

[Jacketlawyer]

Aaaggh.  Sorry to display my ignorance, but I DO NOT know how to make the Young Ones pic part of my regular posts.

Just messin' about.  If anyone knows how to do it, couldja PM me with the know-how?