MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[hasanova]

Cant wait for Friday night.  I hope there is a big turnout for the games.  I think Guilford has grown a nice fan base outside the Quaker community and have drawn fans from the city of Greensboro.  They are consistently on the front page of Greensboro's main newspaper and I think a lot of non Guilford affiliated people will show up.  Also it is nice that they play the second game, as many fans and players of the first game may stick around.  One thing that scares me Nova is after Friday Guilford's spring break begins.  Much of the student section could be depeleted as student head off to Florida or whatever party paradise they choose.  I still expect a great crowd and I know I will be there for both games.  Lets Go Quaks!!! 

Hey cooper - good to see you online.  Yeah, I heard the students were on spring break, so that's a tough break, but I'm pretty they also have to buy a ticket.  When Guilford won the NAIA national title in 1973, there was no internet of course, but there was a local AM radio station that carried all the games.  In those days, all 32 games (there was a consolation game for 3rd place) of the NAIA tournament were played in six days - Monday through Saturday - on the same court in Kansas City.  Eight games a day Monday through Wednesday starting at 9:30 am, four games on Thursday and two games each on Friday and Saturday.  On Friday night and Saturday night that year, the parking lot at Guilford's Binford Hall was full of cars belonging to students who drove to Greensboro to be able to get the radio signal - including me, who drove down from Mt. Airy, NC.  When the Quakers won the title, we had a party in the parking lot and TP-ed the trees leading from Founders Hall all the way to Friendly Avenue.  lol  My point is, if some students want to watch the games badly enough, they'll find a place to stay Friday night! 

See you there!

[hasanova]

Hey, sludge.  It's super cool!  I've already written a note to Guilford to see if they have advance ticket sales.  With Guilford fans and Averett so close, I think there will be a full house Friday night.  I'm not sure how many people will drive down from Maryland and Delaware to root for St. Mary's and Widener, respectively, but I imagine they'll add a few hundred more fans to the mix.

Guilford lists the capacity of Ragan-Brown as 2500.  I for one, can't wait to see it full for some big games.  Friday night - see you there!

6 pm Averett Cougars (14-14) vs Widener Pride (22-5)
8 pm Guilford Quakers (24-4) vs St. Mary's (MD) Seahawks (17-11)

     Hasa.....sometimes it is hard to read emotion into posting online like this but not this time. I can feel your joy all the way up here in the Blue Ridge of Virginia. As you know, I will be just up the street this weekend at the Greensboro Coliseum pulling for the Duke Blue Devils. I told the GF I would humor her and get all decked out in Duke ONLY because the Lady Vols are in the SEC.  As unlikely as this is, if UVA advances to the finals against Duke Sunday, I just may have to pull for the Cavs also.  Can you say DOGHOUSE?!?!?  I will try to slip over to Ragan-Brown if possible but doesn't look like that will be likely at this point. Best of luck to the Quakers (and Marlins) this weekend. GO ODAC. BTW.....good talking to you Saturday night in Salem.

Yeah, you're right, I'm pumped.    Last year was the first time the Quakers made a national men's basketball tournament in about 20 years!  I can tell this is a very special team, so we'll see how far they can go!  I certainly understand your commitments to the ACC women's tournament, but let me know if anything changes!  Thanks for stopping by to talk on Saturday night in Salem - it was good to see you there as well! 

[WhoWouldaThought]

Just following up on Macon not getting in.  Although I said they got snubbed, it was simply an emotional reaction being that I'm a fan of the ODAC and want to see all of the teams do well.  At 20-6, it was a great season for the Jackets all things considered.  From the looks of the front page, it appears they were certainly one of the teams considered for the last couple of spots.  2 things it comes down to which I believe have already been mentioned is the non-conference schedule and the conference tournament performance.  Rhoades usually has a much more difficult non-conference schedule and not having it this year unfortunately hurt them.  Also, it is virtually impossible to overcome losing in the conference quarterfinals.  Macon did it a few years back, but  believe they were #1 at the time so it was going to have a huge impact on them.  This year, I believe they would have needed to not only beat Sydney, but probably beat VW as well to have a legit case against Wheaton and others.  UW Plateville was 19th in the poll, lost in the WIAC Quarterfinals and was denied a birth.  So for future reference, to overcome losing in the quarterfinals of your conference tournament, you need to be a top 10 team at the time to feel reasonably well about getting in.  Otherwise, you need to be in the top 25 with 4 losses or fewer and make your conference semifinals to warrant serious consideration.  This is obviously not an exact science just individual observation.  Using this logic, Macon had a little work to do to meet those criteria and even a win over Sydney would have made it extremely iffy.  I have a feeling though that Macon will indisputabely make the tourney next year and have an outstanding year.  Good luck to Guilford & VWC!!!!!!

[hasanova]

Looking at St. Mary's roster and typical starters, I think we'll see:

#45 Calvin Wise F 6'4"/215  12.5 ppg, 7.1 rpg  (matched with Sanborn?)
#21 Alex Irmer C 6'7"/207 12.4 ppg, 6.9 rpg  (matched with Strong?)
# 2  Mike Smelkinson G 5'5"/150 13.1 ppg  (matched with Kimbrough?)
#13 Alex Franz G 6'1"/175 7.3 ppg  (matched with Belkoski?)
#32 Tyson Lesesne G 6'0"/175 17.9 ppg (matched with Henson?)

Looks like balanced scoring, but a more guard dominated offense.  The Seahawks are .490 from 2-point range, .355 on threes and .694 at the line, so they can shoot.   They're averaging 82.7 ppg, but giving up 78.1.  Obviously, Guilford is taller, but good outside shooting teams can give the Quakers fits. 

[WhoWouldaThought]

#21 Alex Irmer C 6'7"/207 12.4 ppg, 6.9 rpg  (matched with Strong?)

Wow! The irony.  Alex Irmer the former Randolph-Macon recruit who couldn't get consistent PT in Coach Rhoades' system gets his chance in the Tourney while RMC is left out.  We will see how he plays against the best big man in the nation in Ben Strong

[MaconMan5000]

I don't really consider R-MC's non-conference schedule to be all THAT weak. Blowout wins over Elms and Immaculata, two teams that made the tourney, is pretty decent. Just the facts that Macon has beaten 3 teams that are in the tournament including @ Guilford, other conferences received 4 bids, the mediocrity of some at-large teams in the tournament, and the overall strength of the ODAC should have been enough to send R-MC to the big dance. Also being ranked #26 in the last d3hoops poll should count for something as well, but it seems to me that the selection committee is biased toward the strength of some conferences.

[hasanova]

#21 Alex Irmer C 6'7"/207 12.4 ppg, 6.9 rpg  (matched with Strong?)

Wow! The irony.  Alex Irmer the former Randolph-Macon recruit who couldn't get consistent PT in Coach Rhoades' system gets his chance in the Tourney while RMC is left out.  We will see how he plays against the best big man in the nation in Ben Strong

Interesting - I had forgotten about his stint at RMC!

[DenbowsRoomie]

Also being ranked #26 in the last d3hoops poll should count for something as well, but it seems to me that the selection committee is biased toward the strength of some conferences.

That may be because, despite the strength of the ODAC, the UAA, NESCAC, and WIAC are all better conferences than the ODAC.  I would put the ODAC 4th in overall conference strength in Division 3.  In fact, D3hoops actually mentioned the emergence of the ODAC as a new D3 "power" conference:

http://www.d3hoops.com/nation/08/jan31.htm

And if you'll notice in today's main stories, UW-Platteville, a WIAC team, also got snubbed on the bubble.  So the Jackets are not alone as a potential tourney team from a good conference that was not ultimately selected.

All that being said, RMC did have a great season, as they typically do.

And before anything can be forgotten, I want to congratulate my Gennies of W&L, for completing their best season since '89-'90 (when the Roomie was just 8 years old).  Go Generals!!!

[hasanova]

old_lion, good to see you've been scoping out the ODAC page!  I can always tell when you pay us a visit. 

[allsky7]

Also being ranked #26 in the last d3hoops poll should count for something as well, but it seems to me that the selection committee is biased toward the strength of some conferences.

That may be because, despite the strength of the ODAC, the UAA, NESCAC, and WIAC are all better conferences than the ODAC.  I would put the ODAC 4th in overall conference strength in Division 3.  In fact, D3hoops actually mentioned the emergence of the ODAC as a new D3 "power" conference:

http://www.d3hoops.com/nation/08/jan31.htm

And if you'll notice in today's main stories, UW-Platteville, a WIAC team, also got snubbed on the bubble.  So the Jackets are not alone as a potential tourney team from a good conference that was not ultimately selected.

All that being said, RMC did have a great season, as they typically do.

And before anything can be forgotten, I want to congratulate my Gennies of W&L, for completing their best season since '89-'90 (when the Roomie was just 8 years old).  Go Generals!!!

     WHOA NELLIE.....WHOA!! Someone has got to slow this wheel down. I was just a hop and a skip from 30. Just a pup Roomie....just a pup.   

[Mr. Ypsi]

Also being ranked #26 in the last d3hoops poll should count for something as well, but it seems to me that the selection committee is biased toward the strength of some conferences.

That may be because, despite the strength of the ODAC, the UAA, NESCAC, and WIAC are all better conferences than the ODAC.  I would put the ODAC 4th in overall conference strength in Division 3.  In fact, D3hoops actually mentioned the emergence of the ODAC as a new D3 "power" conference:
http://www.d3hoops.com/nation/08/jan31.htm

And if you'll notice in today's main stories, UW-Platteville, a WIAC team, also got snubbed on the bubble.  So the Jackets are not alone as a potential tourney team from a good conference that was not ultimately selected.

All that being said, RMC did have a great season, as they typically do.

And before anything can be forgotten, I want to congratulate my Gennies of W&L, for completing their best season since '89-'90 (when the Roomie was just 8 years old).  Go Generals!!!

As a CCIW lurker on your board, I must protest one egregious omission!

NESCAC (with a single round-robin format, and playing in a weak region) and UAA (spread across five regions, so no waiting behind each other to reach the table) have HUGE advantages in getting multiple bids.  The WIAC and CCIW are so top-to-bottom deep that they totally cannibalize each other in terms of the selection criteria (last year neither got a C at all; this year they each got just one).  The ODAC is in a good position to frequently get a couple of Cs - excellent strength at the top (with the top often going 4-6 deep), yet some all-but-guaranteed wins against the bottom.  My hunch would be that RMC probably had reached the table when the 17th C was named.

IMO the ODAC has surpassed the NJAC and OAC to reach the 'Big 5', but I'm not ready to say 4th quite yet (especially if DR is going to put the CCIW somewhere lower! ).

[algernon]

I don't really consider R-MC's non-conference schedule to be all THAT weak. Blowout wins over Elms and Immaculata, two teams that made the tourney, is pretty decent. Just the facts that Macon has beaten 3 teams that are in the tournament including @ Guilford, other conferences received 4 bids, the mediocrity of some at-large teams in the tournament, and the overall strength of the ODAC should have been enough to send R-MC to the big dance. Also being ranked #26 in the last d3hoops poll should count for something as well, but it seems to me that the selection committee is biased toward the strength of some conferences.

Randolph-Macon's victories over Elms (22-6) and Guilford (24-4) were the best they had this season.  After that, their best wins were probably their 2 victories over Roanoke, going 1-1 against W&L, and going 2-1 against HSC.

Immaculata (18-9) was a good win, but I don't think that there's anything in their record to indicate that they are better than Virginia Wesleyan, Roanoke, Washington & Lee, Hampden-Sydney, or Bridgewater.  Immaculata finished 2nd in their conference, played poorly at the end of the season, and got hot at tournament time (at least hot enough to win their conference tourney, which wouldn't require beating the likes of Guilford, Virginia Wesleyan, or some other ODAC teams).

I'm wondering whether by "the mediocrity of some at-large teams in the tournament," you are referring to Scranton (19-8) and Moravian (18-8).  Those 2 teams were at-large, but Pool B ... and RMC wasn't eligible for the Pool B bids.  Maybe you're referring to the mediocrity of some Automatic Qualifiers, because it is among the Automatic Qualifiers that one finds some rather average teams that got hot at tournament time, such as Bethany (17-10), Franklin (18-9), Averett (14-14), John Jay (13-15), Curry (18-10), Clarkson (11-16), and Baptist Bible (18-9).

I don't think that there is any strong argument to be made that the Yellow Jackets deserved a Pool C bid that was given instead to, say, Wheaton or Middlebury (perhaps the last 2 of the 17 selected).  The fact is that, historically, an ODAC team will not likely get a bid if they lose in the ODAC tournament quarterfinals unless they have no more than 4-5 losses at selection time.  As noted above, the 2004 Yellow Jackets got into the NCAA tournament because their situation was very different ..... their record was 22-4, with 1 of their 4 losses to Virginia Union, a D2 team ... and the 2004 Yellow Jackets had won the regular season title and gone into the ODAC tournament as the #1 tournament seed, sporting a 16-2 regular season record.  Their claim to an NCAA bid was very strong.

If Division III had a 64-team tourney and there were 22 Pool Cs instead of 17 Pool Cs, I think that Randolph-Macon would undoubtedly have received one of the additional 5 bids, along with Cal Lutheran, UW - Whitewater, and a couple others.

On a different matter entirely, I see that Guilford has moved up to #8 in the latest Top 25 poll, with 1 first place vote!  It's interesting that Virginia Wesleyan dropped to #21, even though they took the Quakers to OT in the ODAC championship game.  Randolph-Macon's loss in the quarterfinals resulted in a drop to #40, as they received only 1 vote for the Top 25. 

[tigerfanalso]

Good Luck to both Guilford and VWC. Make the ODAC proud AGAIN !!!!
Having an ODAC team in the final four for a third straight year would be remarkable and I honestly think both teams have that opportunity.

Hasa; enjoy the ride. You've waited along time for this and I truly think this might be the year of the Quakers !!!!

The ODAC could have easily had  three teams again this year; I truly think RMC is stronger than several of the Pool C's; never-the-less' the two we got in have a real chance to show up in Salem. If that happens, I'll be the pulling for them.

[hasanova]

Good Luck to both Guilford and VWC. Make the ODAC proud AGAIN !!!!
Having an ODAC team in the final four for a third straight year would be remarkable and I honestly think both teams have that opportunity.

Hasa; enjoy the ride. You've waited along time for this and I truly think this might be the year of the Quakers !!!!

The ODAC could have easily had  three teams again this year; I truly think RMC is stronger than several of the Pool C's; never-the-less' the two we got in have a real chance to show up in Salem. If that happens, I'll be the pulling for them.

Hey tfa, I think the ODAC has a good shot at postseason success as well.

Thanks.  I am enjoying it - I had planned to take a vacation day on Friday before the Quakers got home games, so it's working out well.  I'll definitely be in the stands for both games Friday night.  One of my old college buddies (and a member of the '73 National champs) also coached AU's Rumley in HS, so we have a double reason to be there.

I'm also sorry the Jackets didn't make the dance.  If they had advanced to the ODAC semifinals, I think they would have been "in."  Thanks for all the support - I really like the way the fans of all the other conference schools become ODAC fans in the postseason!  With luck, we'll have some representation in Salem on the 21st and 22nd!

[rmc6thman]

Although I am disappointed, I have to agree with algernon that RMC needed to AT LEAST win in the quarters to have much of a chance.  From what I have heard, I don't even think they were considering themselves by the time Sunday and Monday rolled around.  It is very interesting that Irmer is going to be playing against Guilford, and I think it will be interesting to see how he fares against some ODAC competition.  He got minutes sparingly in his short time at RMC, but I know Rhoades thought highly of him while he was there. 

As unfortunate as it was for the Jackets to lose early in ODACs, I hope the leaders on that team will use it as fuel for next year.  They have quite a crew comng back, with a sophomore class that saw a great deal of minutes, as well as excellent senior leaders in Short and Varela.  I would imagine they will be a tough match-up.

Good Luck to VaWes and Guilford this weekend, represent the ODAC well!