MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[tigers]

Actually, it wasn't Macon that was really as strong during the 90s.  It was more Roanoke that was powerful.  Macon certainly had a few good teams, but many think they started to wane towards the end of Nunnally's career.

And, Moir didn't necessarily get out on the road as much...

[HSCfan]

What I would say is that recruiting has become more competitive than it was in the late 80's early 90s.  Now, most (if not ALL) ODAC schools have coaches working hard on principally the same kids.  15 years ago that wasn't necessarily the case.  There were only a few schools out there beating the bushes finding the top-caliber kids who were overlooked by D1 or just missed D1.

I was just reiterating your point. Now there are more coaches out there recruiting whereas there may have been 2 or 3 working hard in those days. That's the only point that I'm making, that recruiting is tougher in today's ODAC than when Shaver was hitting his stride. Your point exactly.

[tigers]

Agreed.  I'm just clarifying that Macon wasn't as strong until Rhoades reinvigorated the program...which was really early 2000's.

[tigers]

And, while Shaver may not have had as much competition on the recruiting trail, he built not only a program but a tradition at an ALL-Male school.  That is a pretty ridiculous feat.  Raising Shaver in any way is probably not warranted.  If I were betting, Shaver would still be reeling in top notch recruits as he did pretty much throughout his career at HSC...and now apparently is doing in the CAA.

[HSCfan]

Good news for Tiger fans...sources tell me that Dee Vick has reversed his original decision and has accepted the offer to become the new head coach of Hampden-Sydney! What a crazy couple of weeks on The Hill!

tigers -

I wouldn't put too much money in that pot! The new shape of the ODAC and the financial aid situation has leveled out the playing field in the ODAC. And remember, W&M has been a middle of the road CAA team and has lost several top recruits over the past couple years. They had a great finish to the season last year, pulling off great upsets, but I wouldn't count on this being a normal trend for the Tribe, especially being in the CAA. Again, NOT A KNOCK on Shaver as a coach, it's just the situation he is in trying to compete with schools like VCU, GMU, and ODU at a place like W&M.

[ODACHOOPS]

That's great news from the Hill!! I am happy for the Tiger's and excited to see the arrival of Dee Vick, as I know this must be a huge sigh of relief for the Tiger's basketball program.  Anytime you can avoid the "time table" that comes along with a nation wide search, as well as bring in your #1 man you have to be excited about that.  I am glad to see that HSC was willing to go to any and all lengths to get Dee in the garnet and grey.  With Vick originally declining the offer and now accepting it one can only think that HSC didn't want to let this man get away.  With all the roster shake ups as well as new coach's in the ODAC it should be yet another exciting year of ODAC hoops.   

[tigers]

I'm not sure I agree with you HSCfan.  W&M has absolutely increased its talent level as all would say in the CAA...Your implication is that a primary reason Shaver got the players he got was lack of competition, more financial aid and a better situation.  Bubba has had none of that and that's why the program has fallen.  Not sure you'll get many to agree with that general premise...but rather than arguing, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Best of luck to Dee Vick if he has indeed accepted the job!

[ODACfan4life]

The program has fallen??  HSC won the ODAC two years ago.  In 2007-2008, HSC had a winning season and lost in the semi finals of the ODAC tournament to Virginia Wesleyan and return 5 out of their top 8 and have unbelievable support from alumni and have great facilities and do everything first class and the "program has fallen"?

[tigers]

They did win the tournament which was terrific.  But also had a 10-8 conference record.  This year they suffered even a worse record.

To be clear, the standard was ridiculously high when Shaver left.  It was very rare for his teams to lost close to 10 games in a season.  So "fallen" is less a statement about any particular coach or recruiting and more a statement about the incredible status of the program at the time of Shaver's departure.  But yes, it has fallen....and perhaps for the reasons that HSCfan suggests. 

[LCasid]

Okay folks lets get back to reality here. There's not a single team in the country, rather it be D1, D3, NAIA, or even High School, that is going to lose less than 10 games every single year and be a contender for their conference championship and a national championship. Duke doesn't, UCLA doesn't, Kentucky doesn't, Kansas doesn't, Hampden-Sydney doesn't, Randolph-Macon doesn't, UW-Stevens Point doesn't, Amherst doesn't, DeMatha HS doesn't, etc. All teams go through "dry spells" - it's simply a fact of sports and a fact of life for that matter. Not even the greatest winner in the history of basketball (Bill Russell) won a title every year. If you expect your team to be that damn successful every year then you are just setting yourself up for some mighty disappointing times when your team goes into a dry spell.

You may not like to hear that but it's a fact and you need to learn to accept it every once in a while. If maniacal Kentucky fans can accept it, HSC fans can accept it.

[allsky7]

Okay folks lets get back to reality here. There's not a single team in the country, rather it be D1, D3, NAIA, or even High School, that is going to lose less than 10 games every single year and be a contender for their conference championship and a national championship. Duke doesn't, UCLA doesn't, Kentucky doesn't, Kansas doesn't, Hampden-Sydney doesn't, Randolph-Macon doesn't, UW-Stevens Point doesn't, Amherst doesn't, DeMatha HS doesn't, etc. All teams go through "dry spells" - it's simply a fact of sports and a fact of life for that matter. Not even the greatest winner in the history of basketball (Bill Russell) won a title every year. If you expect your team to be that damn successful every year then you are just setting yourself up for some mighty disappointing times when your team goes into a dry spell.

You may not like to hear that but it's a fact and you need to learn to accept it every once in a while. If maniacal Kentucky fans can accept it, HSC fans can accept it.

     They do?!?! You must not be talking to the same KY fans that I am talking to.   

[LCasid]

Okay folks lets get back to reality here. There's not a single team in the country, rather it be D1, D3, NAIA, or even High School, that is going to lose less than 10 games every single year and be a contender for their conference championship and a national championship. Duke doesn't, UCLA doesn't, Kentucky doesn't, Kansas doesn't, Hampden-Sydney doesn't, Randolph-Macon doesn't, UW-Stevens Point doesn't, Amherst doesn't, DeMatha HS doesn't, etc. All teams go through "dry spells" - it's simply a fact of sports and a fact of life for that matter. Not even the greatest winner in the history of basketball (Bill Russell) won a title every year. If you expect your team to be that damn successful every year then you are just setting yourself up for some mighty disappointing times when your team goes into a dry spell.

You may not like to hear that but it's a fact and you need to learn to accept it every once in a while. If maniacal Kentucky fans can accept it, HSC fans can accept it.

     They do?!?! You must not be talking to the same KY fans that I am talking to.   

What about me?? lol

[HSCfan]

tigers -

Last comment on this...I am just excited to have someone who is as passionate about ODAC and CAA hoops as I am! If you are quick to call Hampden-Sydney's 10-8 conference campaign in the 2006-07 ODAC championship season subpar, you must agree that William and Mary's past season, where they also came from the No. 5 seed, were also 10-8 in conference (and just 17-16 overall), and pulled off three last second wins to just make the title game. Has the talent improved? Maybe. But the Tribe remains in the bottom half of the league, and without Kisilieus, I doubt W&M will have the guns to make a dent in the CAA this season. The two years before Shaver arrived on campus, the Tribe were 7-11 in conference both seasons. Improvement is improvement, but it is just three games worth.

In a game as topsy-turvy as college basketball, I feel like many fans are spoiled when their teams taste success. Yes, in their prime, the Tigers were consistent 20-game winners - however, an ODAC title is an ODAC title. Be careful before you associate winning an ODAC title with a "fallen" year! I'm sure there are many other teams that wished they had a "fallen" ODAC championship year! Of the 32 ODAC champions, Roanoke and Hampden-Sydney have 10 each...of the remaining 12, no one else has more than 3 - W&L (3), Lynchburg (1), R-MC (3), Bridgewater (1), Guilford (1) and VWC (3). Don't take titles for granted.

LCasid makes a great point...everyone experiences times when the going gets tough! People long for the Shaver years, but you must agree that times are completely different now than they were then! Shaver is a wonderful coach, but let's be honest, coaches are ultimately judged on their success and that success relies heavily on his players! Just take Doc Rivers for example! A few years ago, he was on the verge of being fired...he gets two more all-stars, and now he's a genius!

[tigers]

Okay folks lets get back to reality here. There's not a single team in the country, rather it be D1, D3, NAIA, or even High School, that is going to lose less than 10 games every single year and be a contender for their conference championship and a national championship. Duke doesn't, UCLA doesn't, Kentucky doesn't, Kansas doesn't, Hampden-Sydney doesn't, Randolph-Macon doesn't, UW-Stevens Point doesn't, Amherst doesn't, DeMatha HS doesn't, etc. All teams go through "dry spells" - it's simply a fact of sports and a fact of life for that matter. Not even the greatest winner in the history of basketball (Bill Russell) won a title every year. If you expect your team to be that damn successful every year then you are just setting yourself up for some mighty disappointing times when your team goes into a dry spell.

You may not like to hear that but it's a fact and you need to learn to accept it every once in a while. If maniacal Kentucky fans can accept it, HSC fans can accept it.

Really? I disagree (maybe except for the national part).  In the last 13 seasons under Shaver, they had one season at double digit losses (13).  The other 12 seasons were: 6,6, 6,3,9,7,6,3, 2, 5, 6,4.  Pretty incredible run under Shaver.  Each of those years they were certainly in the hunt for the ODAC title and often-times in the hunt for the National Championship. 

Last few years there has been a drop-off on the Hill with three of the last five years seeing double digit losses.  Call it a cycle in the world of athletics, call it financial aid, increased competition in recruiting.  This is not a negative comment on Bubba or his abilities (he's got over a .650 winning percentage for heavens sake)...this is more about the incredible level at which HSC was at during the 90s and early 2000s.  We'll get back there!

[LCasid]

Okay folks lets get back to reality here. There's not a single team in the country, rather it be D1, D3, NAIA, or even High School, that is going to lose less than 10 games every single year and be a contender for their conference championship and a national championship. Duke doesn't, UCLA doesn't, Kentucky doesn't, Kansas doesn't, Hampden-Sydney doesn't, Randolph-Macon doesn't, UW-Stevens Point doesn't, Amherst doesn't, DeMatha HS doesn't, etc. All teams go through "dry spells" - it's simply a fact of sports and a fact of life for that matter. Not even the greatest winner in the history of basketball (Bill Russell) won a title every year. If you expect your team to be that damn successful every year then you are just setting yourself up for some mighty disappointing times when your team goes into a dry spell.

You may not like to hear that but it's a fact and you need to learn to accept it every once in a while. If maniacal Kentucky fans can accept it, HSC fans can accept it.

Really? I disagree (maybe except for the national part).  In the last 13 seasons under Shaver, they had one season at double digit losses (13).  The other 12 seasons were: 6,6, 6,3,9,7,6,3, 2, 5, 6,4.  Pretty incredible run under Shaver.  Each of those years they were certainly in the hunt for the ODAC title and often-times in the hunt for the National Championship. 

Last few years there has been a drop-off on the Hill with three of the last five years seeing double digit losses.  Call it a cycle in the world of athletics, call it financial aid, increased competition in recruiting.  This is not a negative comment on Bubba or his abilities (he's got over a .650 winning percentage for heavens sake)...this is more about the incredible level at which HSC was at during the 90s and early 2000s.  We'll get back there!

You disagree? You just proved my point...