MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[tigerfanalso]

HSCFAN

I fondly remember each of those victories plus the very exciting home victory during Bubba's first year as Head Coach (prehaps the most exciting Macon game I've ever seen) BUT we need more of them going forward. That is my only point.

[HSCfan]

Of course I would like to have more H-SC victories in that rivalry, but I think there is one major detail that many ODAC fans, including Tiger fans, tend to conveniently overlook:

Yes, Mike Rhoades is a tremendous coach, but why is it that people seemed to be tougher on Bubba and the Tigers and still hail Rhoades as a master of the craft (which he is a great one, but for the sake of playing devil's advocate here) when you consider this...

Mike Rhoades = one ODAC title in eight years.
Bubba Smith = two ODAC titles in five years.

The Tigers have many more ODAC titles than the Jackets...I just think it is funny that over the past couple years, H-SC fans are quick to jump all over the teams that have actually built a better track record than Macon teams that seem to always have positive support of their posters despite not having won a title in a while. Just food for thought, something that I have observed. No reason to fret! Just interesting!

[Pat Coleman]

Didn't Rhoades inherit a significantly different program than Smith did? What was Macon's track record in the five years before Rhoades took over and HSC's in the five years before Smith took that job?

[eagleslam]

Pat...

Don't know about the full five years, but Rhoades was an assistant for Macon from 1996-99.  In that time, R-MC was 57-25 overall, 40-14 in the ODAC, and lost twice in the finals to H-SC in 1998 and 1999.  I do know that Macon won ODAC titles in 1990 and 1991 with some left over players from the D-II level, and even made the finals in 1993.

The Jackets took a somewhat predictable stumble after the switch from D-II to D-III.  Did Rhoades inherit as good a program as Smith?  No.  Not when you consider H-SC had been to a NCAA Championship Game and won multiple ODAC titles.  But he did not inherit chopped liver, and any "down years" was simply because there is going to be somewhat of a stumble after a drop in divisions.

[HSCfan]

I'm not great with the history part of the argument, having had little opportunity to research lately, but I would just point to the level of player that both Rhoades and Smith were able to attract to Hampden-Sydney. Rhoades with the likes of Jared Mills, Justin Wansley, Jamal Brunt, Kurt Bergmann, Phil Hawley, Justin Short...it's amazing that he has only won one championship.

It's VERY hard to win a title in the ODAC. I am just surprised that he hasn't won at least a couple more with that talent. He hasn't been longing for it. Just an interesting view that I have seeing how Tigers fans appear to be much quicker to the trigger when questioning a coach that has one more championship and comparable talent. You can even say that Smith won with less in 2006-07!

[Jacketlawyer]

Eagleslam's summary of R-M's history is pretty accurate.  However, Shaver did leave Smith a full cupboard when he left for W&M as I recall, and then there was a bit of dip a few years later.

[LCasid]

It's VERY hard to win a title in the ODAC. I am just surprised that he hasn't won at least a couple more with that talent.

That's what happens when you run into the Lynchburg buzz saw of 2004

[Jacketlawyer]

Yeah, LCasid, I know I remember 2004 very well.  H-S got us this year.  Our history of playing the same team we beat during the last game of the regular season in the first round of the ODAC tournament isn't that great!  I'm not one to indulge in "what ifs" but 2004 and 2008 might've been a little different had we moved on.

Oh well. . . . . .

But I like our chances this year.  Provided we return all of last years' freshmen, I think we can hang with anyone in the league. 8)

[Tigerfan]

No offense intended to Coach Smith, but me, Steelyglen and a few sixpacks could have  coached the 2004 Tiger team to an ODAC championship.  An example of our pregame or half time or timeout strategy:  "Whoever's playing point, pass the ball to Jeff.  Jeff, you shoot it from wherever you want.  Mike and David, if he misses it, rebound.  Mike, dunk it if you can.  Brandon, don't let their best player score.  Burp.  Go get 'em."

Of course that's a ridiculous oversimplification of that team and season and the job that Bubba did, but that strategy would have won a ton of games for Steely and me.

[Jacketlawyer]

No offense intended to Coach Smith, but me, Steelyglen and a few sixpacks could have  coached the 2004 Tiger team to an ODAC championship.  An example of our pregame or half time or timeout strategy:  "Whoever's playing point, pass the ball to Jeff.  Jeff, you shoot it from wherever you want.  Mike and David, if he misses it, rebound.  Mike, dunk it if you can.  Brandon, don't let their best player score.  Burp.  Go get 'em."

Laughed 'til it hurt!

[tigerfanalso]

I'm kind of under the same opinion, anybody could have coached the 04 squad to the ODAC Championship, but I say that with no indifference to Coach Smith. Bottom line ... following Tony was a very difficult thing to do and I think he did the very best he knew how to do. He handled himself well and his teams represented the school well; the level of play was not of the same caliber HSC fans had grown to know But I'm not sure any coach could have keep the program at the same level Tony left it; Bubba was  being compared to Tony (by some) not a fair comparison. Too young, not enough experience, not contacted w/i the b'ball community to the same extent, etc.   

[eagleslam]

Certainly Bubba Smith had the goods, so to speak, his first year.  And Mike Rhoades, as Bill Parcells would say, had to get some groceries.  But, as much as I hate to bring this up, I think this goes to show how hard it is to win the ODAC Championship.

The 2003-04 team was very similar to the 1999-2000 team in that it had several members of a Final Four team returning.  The 1999-2000 team went 26-0, then lost in the ODAC Championship game to Roanoke, then lost in a home game to Maryville in the NCAA to finish 26-2.  Not only did Coach Smith win the ODAC title, he won his first home game against Elizabethtown in the NCAA. 

Hate to go against you tigerfan, but any oversimplifications, simple or complex, should not be given.


TFA...

I agree that Bubba was compared, by some, to Tony.  I hope those people do not do the same to Dee Vick.  Tiger fans need to let Dee Vick be the first Coach Vick, not the second Coach Shaver.

[ODACHOOPS]

Yes indeed smith did inherit a great team in 04 which certainly didn't hurt his ODAC championship run that year..but what about when smith took an 06-07 squad that finished 19-11 and 10-8 in the ODAC to a championship title and a rd of 32 berth..that team had talent don't get me wrong but by no means was "stacked" keep in mind they played that yr without all state performer Troy Kaase...Mike Rhodes is one hell of a coach who always seems to get the most out of all of his teams and players, but like hscfan pointed out his numbers (or hardware i guess i should say) arent up there with smith's yet he always seems to get a "get out of jail card" while smith was constantly under that microscope.

[Pat Coleman]

The 2003-04 team was very similar to the 1999-2000 team in that it had several members of a Final Four team returning.  The 1999-2000 team went 26-0, then lost in the ODAC Championship game to Roanoke, then lost in a home game to Maryville in the NCAA to finish 26-2.  Not only did Coach Smith win the ODAC title, he won his first home game against Elizabethtown in the NCAA. 

Of course, he drew Etown instead of Maryville. Bit of a big difference there, right? Etown was 18-8, 8-6 in its conference. Not a perennial power like Maryville.

[HSCfan]

Ok...how about this???

I agree that Bubba was handed an unbelievable roster his first year. That can almost be compared to what Mike Rhoades has in his arsenal this season, being the only recent contender to return almost all of his significant players (Jeremy Dixon being the only reduction from the roster). Rhoades will have Justin Short (POY candidate), Jordan Brown (reigning ROY), maybe Carlson (although I think the team will be better off in the long run without him), ideal do-it-all man Danny Jones, great defender and shot maker Boris Varela, and so on. He returns the most key players, should be the odds on favorite MUCH LIKE that Hampden-Sydney team of 2004.

So, Rhoades should be able to "burp" out instructions and win a title this year correct?

VWC lost Fantin, Balenga, and Tucker.
H-S lost Kaase, Murray, and Prehmus
Guilford lost Strong, Kimbrough, Belkoski, Edmond
W&L lost Bienemann
Roanoke lost LaPorte, Dowell, Carter

The usual suspects are down, R-MC is way up. Rhoades should coast this year according to recent board logic  Any takers??