MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[baselinejam]

Anyone who makes All-ODAC could have played D-1 some place. There are over 300 D-1 schools & even more D-3 than D-1. Most know they wouldn't be D-1 studs. Maybe they want to be starters. D-1 players go 24/7/365 these days. Some D-3 guys may want a life. The guys at W&L join fraternities and enjoy college life. Many, who can afford to, leverage hoops to get into the best school that can get admitted to. Money and pro aspirations will take most of the size and speed to D-1.

[ODACHOOPS]

I definitely don't agree with the statement that "anyone who makes all-odac could have gone d1." Yes, their are all-odac performers that could have played D1 somewhere, but saying that anyone who makes all-odac could have played D1 is far from the truth.  Granted their is a WIDE variety of range in regards to Division 1 one schools and ability (like you said 300 + schools), but even the worse D1 schools in the country ie: Longwood, Savannah St ect wouldn't sign a lot of "all-odac" performers and that's the #299 and #300 ranked D1 schools in the country.  Now if were talking someone "walking on" to a D1 school as "playing D1" well then that's a totally different story.  But as far as getting a full athletic scholarship for a D1 school, their are a lot of all-odac performers that would not be getting those from Longwood, Savannah St or any other D1 school

[Pat Coleman]

I assumed "playing" D-I was "playing" D-I. I don't think "playing in the ACC" was implied or "starting at D-I" either.

In fact, it is very difficult to win in March in Division III without D-I quality players.

[old_lion]

but even the best aren't necessarily "settling" for D3, their playing D3 because their either not tall enough at their position, don't weight enough, or whatever it may be. (yes there is a small select group of kids that are "settling" due to the better academics or would rather win games as appose to having losing seasons). 

I think you make a good point.  My opinion is that most really good DIII players had some "chink in their armor" during their high school careers that one way or another, kept the coaches at the "scholarship schools" (I'd say DII schools usually more so than DI schools) from realizing the potential that was really there. Things like being late bloomers, somewhat undersized, not the "greatest athletes",  injuries, being "buried" on the depth chart at really good high schools programs, etc. caused their potential to be "under recognized" in high school.

Take for example Jake Baldwin and Jake Green, guys that finished up outstanding 4 year careers at Piedmont College last season ...

Baldwin played much of his senior season with a broken shooting hand and therefore, stayed under the radar of recruiters at the scholarship schools.

Green was undersized, and probably more significantly, played at a great high school program his junior and seniors seasons where you had to be outstanding just to get on the floor (so it was difficult to stand out). The top 8 guys from the team Green's senior season went on to play college athletics ... 6 in basketball, 2 in football ... the 2 football players could have been very good DIII basketball players, had they chosen to go that route.  (Green got a good bit of recognition his sr year, but played behind a 3 year starter his jr year) My friends from Murvel aren't going to like hearing this ... but had those 8 guys moved intact to any gsac school (playing for a decent coach) they could easily have won 4 straight gsac titles (and maybe a couple of ODAC`titles, had they gone further north  ) ... even if they couldn't have talked Baldwin (who grew up just across the Chattahoochee in Forsyth Co.) to coming along for the ride.

But I digress.  My point is, I'm sure both of those guys could have had decent DII careers, but probably not the outstanding careers they had at the DIII level.  Personally, I think they made the right decisions.

Here's another point to consider. 98%+ of the athletes at DIII and DII (and well over half of the guys at DI) are never going to make a living playing basketball.  That's why I think way too many kids get caught up in trying to play at the highest level where they will give them a uniform and a seat on the bench.  That's why I applaud the common sense of the guys who focus on finding a place where they can get a good education and enjoy their college experience.

But then that's just my opinion ... I could be wrong.

[ODACHOOPS]

My point exactly...the good D3 players are in most cases playing D3 because like you said, they had "chink's in their armor."  That is the case more times then none, not that they are "settling" to play D3.

All I'm saying is that there is a huge difference between being a "really good D3 player" and being able to get a full scholarship and play for a D1 school

[HSCfan]

Whew, the constant use of quotation marks really "has my head spinning"...has me "thrown for a loop"...if you want my "two cents" on the situation, there are kids everywhere who think they are much better than what they are and need to be "brought back to earth" when that late signing period comes and they have no offers. Then again, there are plenty of kids who understand their level and are "pumped" to join a good DIII squad.

Saying that all All-ODAC performers could play DI is a tough statement. No disrespect to this player, but Brad Parkes comes to mind here. A GREAT DIII player whose toughness, strength, and resolve scored him many a point in his career at EMU, but a player that would not have had a position at a DI program because he was a 6-4 (generous height) post player with average quickness and athletic ability. Again, he was a fantastic DIII and ODAC player who was well deserving of every honor he received...but not a real DI prototype. In fact, even Brandon Adair, who was a pure stud in the league may have had to develop a much different game in DI to be successful at just 6-5.

The list may go on of All-ODAC players that would have had to find a different niche in DI because of the sheer size and athleticism difference even at the lower levels. All great players, but great because their pure skills and fundamentals could shine bright at the DIII level.

[HSCfan]

I guess I associate the term playing DI as doing just that...playing. There are plenty of walk-ons who are on the team and participate in practice, but I think before this is discussed any further, we need to differentiate between playing and contributing. Many All-ODAC players could make DI rosters, but how many would actually contribute is difficult to measure (also style of play, conference, coach, and a host of other factors must be considered). Don't get me wrong...I know of a good handful that definitely could contribute to certain programs given the opportunity!

I think that recently I was most impressed with Justin Wansley, who was recruited to a small number of DI schools (i.e. Richmond, who was pretty darn good at the time)...but wisely chose to hang his hat in the ODAC  Justin was an ideal DI body, skill set, and work ethic. That combo doesn't come through DIII too often! If they do, like Pat said, they are usually winning national titles.

[odacfan1225]

You are right I did not even think of Justin Wansley but he certainly could have been a D1 player and I am guessing an effective one at that.  But I do think they ODAC has at least 5 D1 players at any giving time.  Right now I think that Justin Short is the biggest one.  Other then his height, I think he has everything to succeed at the D1 level.  Some remember him in high school as the scoring machine who averaged 28.9 points per game, and was in the same conference as current 1st team all ACC point guard, Tyrese Rice.  Any who got the chance to see Short and Rice battle in highschool remember what great games they were and that they players were almost equal, with Rice maybe having a better shot, and Short with better defense.  Rice always with the edge though because of a better supporting cast, and because he played AAU and Short did not.  Also Ben Strong obviously could have played, and if a D1 took a chance on him out of high school, I believe they would have had an awesome suprise by his junior year.  Turner King also comes to my mind as a player that has to fit in at the D1 level somewhere.  He is just a complete package, and other then his strength, I believe he would be a good role player, if not more.  Thoughts?

[y_jack_lok]

Here I go, inviting myself into your conversation again. I really enjoy reading this board.

I know of a D3 player from UC Santa Cruz who transferred, as a junior I think, to D1 Fordham of the Atlantic 10 conference and coached by Derek Wittenerg who took the infamous shot that Lorenzo Charles grabbed and put in the hoop to win NC State the D1 championship in 1983. Anyway, this kid walked on at Fordham, made the team, got some playing time -- even started a few games as a senior. But in the end he was a bit player who maybe averaged a little over 2 points a game and not more than 5 minutes per game of playing time.

Also, a great case in point of a guy who made the right choice to play D3 is this year's D3 player of the year, Troy Ruths of Wash U. He is 6' 6" and has no natural position but as a post player. In three years of watching him play I don't think I saw him take more than a handful of shots beyond 12 feet. Yet he could dominate inside at this level -- just ask Hope and Amerst, each of whom who he burned for 30+ points a game in the Final Four.

[Pat Coleman]

Whew, the constant use of quotation marks really "has my head spinning"...has me "thrown for a loop"...if you want my "two cents" on the situation, there are kids everywhere who think they are much better than what they are and need to be "brought back to earth" when that late signing period comes and they have no offers. Then again, there are plenty of kids who understand their level and are "pumped" to join a good DIII squad.

"Sorry."

[LCasid]

As far as played playing D1 is a concern, LC has two: Mason Wooldridge (played on scholarship at Marshall his freshman year and was highly encouraged to transfer to another D1 instead of LC) and Steven Echols (had a few scholarship offers coming out of high school)

[ODACHOOPS]

I couldn't agree more, for this statement to have any meaning one must first distinguish the difference between "playing" d1(getting into games and contributing) and "playing" as in (15th man on the roster and is lucky to get some run in practice). "Playing" D1 is "playing" D1.  I cant say that i agree with that.. playing d1 and being a contributor and getting playing time is completely different then playing d1 and handing water cups to guys as they come off the court.  Yes, their are current and former players in the odac that I think could play d1, contribute and play some minutes.  However outside that elite group of players I don't think their are a lot of players "all-odac" or not that could contribute and get playing time at D1.

Getting recruited by D1 schools and actually signing and getting minutes for a D1 school is completely different.

[HSCfan]

Some possible DI contributors in the ODAC this upcoming year (feel free to add to the list if desired):

RMC: Justin Short (I remember him in his Manchester High days and thought then that if Tyrese Rice got a shot, he would get a shot...has really developed well though under Rhoades)

VWC: Stephen Fields (pure scorer, although he might have to be a point at the DI level due to size)

BC: Dom Trawick (again, may have to move to point at the DI level, but he can flat out score)

HSC: Turner King (stronger than people think and can get a shot off at any time, complete game)

LC: Mason Wooldridge (already been there)...LCasid, I'd like to see Echols develop his left hand a bit more before I'm sold. I know that defenses that were successful on him played him to his left and he struggled a bit

That is a list of 5...the All-ODAC first team prediction from me, if you will. Short, Fields, Trawick, King, and Wooldridge should be on the ODAC first team come March, and all could contribute at the DI level, not just hand out the water cups ODACHOOPS 

[baselinejam]

Fellow Posters,

It boils down to what you want out of college.  There are plenty of crappy D-1 teams that any All-ODAC performer would get plenty of playing time on. Even at top programs walk-ons historically get time ie Wake. The Citadel is D-1, 4 years ago a 2-23 W&L was up on them by 5 with 5 to go & lost (w/o the services of Alex White who broke his leg in the 1st half). I think the Citadel coach wished he had a few of the W&L players. So do you want to start, do you want to be closer to home, do you want better academics (in other words do you really want to be a student athlete), do you want your summers off? It is the players choice. As an aside - I think most of the UAA & Wisconsin D-3's would be low level D-1's.

[baselinejam]

LC: Mason Wooldridge (already been there)...LCasid, I'd like to see Echols develop his left hand a bit more before I'm sold. I know that defenses that were successful on him played him to his left and he struggled a bit

Woolridge is a perfect example of a player with a chink in his armor (he has a smoking shot, but he can't put it on the floor) yet he made a D-1 team