MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[HSCfan]

You are exactly right that it boils down to what you want out of college...however I feel that the dominating trend is that serious prep hoopsters that are given the opportunity of a scholarship at a DI, regardless of level, will try it on for size if not only for the simple aura and prestige of the DI label. It's a shame that some kids have to waste a year of eligibility to learn the lesson, but it's reality. Hampden-Sydney beat Longwood University when the Lancers were in their first year of the DI transition and was playing an all DI schedule (with the exception of the Tigers) including No. 1 Illinois, top-five Wake Forest, Cincinnati, among others. Yet the Tigers still lose some recruits to their cross-town rival because of the DI affiliation...and those kids sit the bench for four years at a struggling program!

I'm sure all schools have to deal with that situation and it's tough...but most kids, when given that DI option, will at least give it a shot IMO.

Wooldrige is a strange case...there are plenty of DI programs that have 6-6 power forwards who can step out and shoot, but cannot handle whatsoever...I wonder if his choice to transfer was for different reasons other than his ability to compete at that level.

[oldfish]

Just my 2 cents but I think that there are a lot more than 5 ODAC players per year who could go to a DI program and contribute.  (and by contribute I mean more than handing out water...lets say playing more than 10 mins a game).  Are these players going to a the ACC, PAC-10 or Big-10...probably not.  But I believe that there are at least 15 players in the ODAC each year that (given the right opportunity) could go to a low to mid-level DI school and actually play.

One other thing that I would point out is that I didnt say the TOP 15 players in the ODAC.  I believe that there are players in the ODAC that (1) are at an ODAC school and have DI talent but are not in the right situation i.e. coach, program, game plan OR (2) would give you 12 points, 5 boards, 3 asst at HSC or Longwood. 

As an example I would point to the Hampton Roads Pro-am.  When I was around the program, VWC had a number of players who did very well against some top notch D1 and D2 players, but were far from ODAC 1st teamers.

[HSCfan]

And oldfish hits the nail on the head! DI has such a wide spectrum...there is a reason that many low DI schools do not want to schedule a competitive DIII, even in exhibitions: they might lose! As I said before, whether a guy can play at the highest collegiate level, be it Memphis or Savannah State, is determined not only by skill (although that is the dominant factor) but also style, coaching philosophy, etc. The No. 35 player in the ODAC could certainly find a home at some DI and possibly be that role guy that steps in for 8-10 minutes a contest.

Like old_lion stated earlier, I applaud the guys who understand from the get-go that pro basketball or high DI success may not be in their fate, and they choose to maximize their potential and skill at the very competitive DIII level. I'm glad that the ODAC is full of players who do make that choice, because it makes for a brand of basketball that I love to watch. Many times, you find better fundamental players in DIII who lack the athleticism and natural size. Put these players through an individual workout, and skill-wise, they will match up with some of those mid-major DI athletes.

[old_lion]

Many times, you find better fundamental players in DIII who lack the athleticism and natural size.

Agreed.

Last season, I had an opportunity to see a high school game between two of the top rated teams in the state of Georgia. Both teams were loaded with good atheletes, had several DI prospects, so I was expecting to see some good basketball ...

Wrong! It was terrible ... very little team play ... guys were mostly taking it to the hole, trying to jump over each other ... passing only when they were forced to, and even then the object seemed to be to pick up as many "degree of difficulty points" as possible.  I was ready to leave by half time.

I prefer watching two solid DIII "teams" go at it any day.

[GSAC Killer]

I don´t consider guys who sit on the bench all 4 years at Div I a Division I player. A true Division I player get s about 14-20 minutes a night throughout his career. The difference between Div III and Div I , and I truly believe this is that most players get better from the time they get to school as a freshman to the time they are senior at a higher scale. A kid might come in as a Div III player but ends up being a mid major or even a big time time Prospect by his senior year.

I compare the guys who have come in to UT and Maryville since I moved to Tennessee and I am telling you from experience because I have played against them not too much of a difference if a difference at all!!!!

[hasanova]

And oldfish hits the nail on the head! DI has such a wide spectrum...there is a reason that many low DI schools do not want to schedule a competitive DIII, even in exhibitions: they might lose!

As did Elon to Guilford at the Phoenix gym (naturally), 62-56, to start the 2006-07 season.  The sad part is, Elon will probably never schedule Guilford again as long as Elon's DI and Guilford is DIII.  Guilford also actually led South Carolina 21-20 last fall, but you knew that couldn't last.  Strong, by the way, scored 27 versus the Gamecocks.

[ODACHOOPS]

the five players: short, fields, trawick, king and wooldridge..yes they could all play and contribute to some d1 school of the 300+.  But saying their are 15 players in the odac that could do that I don't see it.  I mean again i use longwood just as an example for this argument, but they are statistically one of if not the worse d1 programs in the country right now and I promise you that mike wouldn't sign 15 odac players to full rides over there.  I understand that different programs have different needs and players fit in differently at each school.  But if the worse d1 program in the country can't find a need for you, what school is?

[ODACfan4life]

My guess is that most of the top 15 players in the ODAC had fairly serious D-I interest in high school which did not lead to an offer - for whatever reason.  But, year in and year out, I think the top 15 players in the ODAC have the talent to comprise a pretty good small D-I team.  Certainly the ODAC top 15 could not compete in the Big East or ACC, but I would have confidence in that team, for example, in the Patriot League, among other smaller conferences.  That is not a knock against the Patriot League.  The ODAC is one of the top 5 or 6 D-III conferences and has some very good players. 

Now, whether as a team the ODAC "all star team" could compete at a smaller D-I level is a completely different issue, because there is more to winning at any level than just raw talent.  I will throw in coaching and chemistry just to name a few of the variables.  But, from a talent perspective, there is enough talent in the top 15 of the ODAC to compete at a low D-I level.

Look at it in reverse.  It is not necessarily true that a D-I transfer to the ODAC always dominates or even excels in the ODAC.  I can think of a few such D-I transfers over the years who failed to excel in the ODAC.  Why?  A skinny young 18 year old freshman with a D-I jump shot can turn into a stronger, taller more athletic junior who could compete at the low D-I level at age 20 - but maybe not when he was 18.  So, sometimes, it is just a matter of timing and development.  D-I coaches are in love with athleticism and strength.  That is often what prevents an ODAC player from getting a scholarship to a smaller D-I school at age 17 or 18.

Another fact to consider is that there are not enough scholarships to go to all of the kids who could play at the smaller D-I level, especially when you add in JUCOs and foreign players. 

Finally, playing D-I just to play D-I could turn what should be the best four years of your life, into the most frustrating four years of your life.  For example, if a kid has a choice to play D-I at Longwood or at New Jersey Institute of Technology (0-29 last year), or play in the competitive ODAC with some academic aid, I would advise that kid to go to an ODAC school every time. 

[bballlover]

Great topic. Don't you think that being in the AAU-YBOA era also hurts the marginal D-1 Player? If a kid is not on a high profile summer team then that kid has to be marketed. Who does it? High School coaches (not all but most) Don't work at it that hard any more. So It falls to the parent who knows nothing about marketing their kid. It is much easier to get a look from a D-3 School than a D-2 or D-1 so some of these kids fall through the cracks. Most are a lot better off because of it.

[ODACfan4life]

bballlover, your points are well taken.  AAU exposure can be a frustrating hit or miss experience for the lower D-1 player.  Plus, the whole AAU scene is just disgusting anyway. 

But you hit the nail on the head.  Most of those kids are better off being seen at an AAU tournament by a D-III coach and then recruited as a diamond in the rough, rather than going through four frustrating years in D-1. 

[tigerfanalso]

Obviously some ODAC players could have played at some D1 schools:

1992 HSC beats W&M
2007 Guilford beats Elon

I'm sure there are other like situations. Most low level D1 programs would love to secure the services of the most talented ODAC players.
These guys have decided on D3 for all the right reasons; a better basketball experience; better academics; better quality of live;
and this is true for all sports. Every good D3 team have athletes that could be playing at a higer level.

[TDizzle21]

bballlover, your points are well taken.  AAU exposure can be a frustrating hit or miss experience for the lower D-1 player.  Plus, the whole AAU scene is just disgusting anyway. 

But you hit the nail on the head.  Most of those kids are better off being seen at an AAU tournament by a D-III coach and then recruited as a diamond in the rough, rather than going through four frustrating years in D-1. 

AAU can be frustrating hit or miss experience if your not on a good team but if your on a good aau team for example DC Assualt(Micheal Beasleys old aau team) you will get alot of exposure thats how the 6'7 kid I coach has gotten D1 offers because he has some strong D1 prospects on his team and when coaches come to see them they also look at the other players on the team, I have to agree that the AAU scene is disgusting ive gone to a couple of games and all I see is 1 on 5 offense and no one really commiting to play defense, some of these player develop real bad habits off of AAU playing

[HSCfan]

True...AAU just isn't the same as when I roamed the AAU courts six, seven years ago. I remember having three Richmond Squires players on my high school team as a sophomore, and those three kids finding their own box of brand new, all silver Kobe Bryant's in their locker prior to our regional final game. They were the only kids on the team not wearing our team shoe, and they certainly shined on the court for more reasons than one that night!

AAU is slowly corrupting the game of basketball, but it is the best way for college coaches to recruit - instead of having to travel to twenty different high schools, they can go to one showcase event and see all the kids they have on their recruiting boards!

[old_lion]

Most are a lot better off because of it.

Agreed.  In addition to the opportunities they are afforded, I think you also have to consider the financial aid packages that some of these kids get at DIII schools.  Admittedly, we aren't talking full rides here ... but, most of these DIII schools are private schools that can pretty much do what they want to, within reason.

If you are a pretty good student, and the institution decides it really wants you ... for whatever your special gifts are (not necessarily just sports), then you have a great shot at getting a very good financial aid package.

I'd be willing to bet that there are quite a few DIII guys (as a matter of fact, I know of a few) with better packages than a lot of DI preferred walk-ons or DII partial scholarship guys.  And really, that is usually the applicable comparison for most guys that could play (be on the team) at a higher level.

[baselinejam]

[/quote]
If you are a pretty good student, and the institution decides it really wants you ... for whatever your special gifts are (not necessarily just sports), then you have a great shot at getting a very good financial aid package.

I'd be willing to bet that there are quite a few DIII guys (as a matter of fact, I know of a few) with better packages than a lot of DI preferred walk-ons or DII partial scholarship guys.  And really, that is usually the applicable comparison for most guys that could play (be on the team) at a higher level.
[/quote]

If that's true - then that's a problem. It's miracle that W&L broke .500 - Most of their players get 0. If there is a hint of "wink - wink  'this is academic $' then the school is perpatrating a fraud on D-3.