MBB: NESCAC

[grabtherim]

Real simple, Midd got the shaft.  This scenario should have been contemplated before this weekend.  Shame on the NCAA for not doing so.  Not sure if the powers that be at Midd, AD or the like, had any idea this might occur, and had any way to deal with it before today.  The sound you hear is the folks from Williams and Amherst chuckling as for the road to the Final Four, one gets two possible games in their gym while the other is not too far from from campus, after both were beaten for a conference title by a team now forced to travel 300 miles to play in a hostile venue. Once the anger subsides, and it will, I have no doubt that this team has the goods to do it on the road.  That being said, Midd should not be in the position to have to prove it.  
Coach Brown needs to let the kids know they were not treated well, but sadly fair did not enter into the equation.  Not sure if he will use it as a motivation or not, but I know he will never let the kids even think about using it as an excuse.  Just think how sweet the victory could be given the shabby disrepectful treatment by the geniuses at the NCAA.  Shameful treatment by this out of touch organization, who answers to no one, to a team which earned it the correct way: ON  THE COURT!!

[Ethelred the Unready]

   Bucket, best secure your tickets before you take the trip.  I dont think U of R has much of a gym.  Agree with your comments 100% but nothing to do but complain about an obvious blunder by NCAA which lacks the courage or integrity to correct the situation, let alone issue some statement explaining their thinking.  Talk about motivation, Midd should not have ant problem getting up for this one. Is Midd Athletic Dept making any seating plans for those who might attend the game?

   Aside to Amh63.  Alas, stick it!

What do you mean about U of R's gym?  What don't you like about it?  Middlebury was there for the NCAA's 3 years ago and traveled pretty well if I remember.  By the way, it's Spring Break for U of R so I wouldn't imagine there will be many students in the Hive

[amh63]

Aside from some too sensitive posters who may have wrong info/impressions. here is more info.
By going to the U. of Rochester website, there is a nice video/pix show of their facilities and the location relative to other buildings.
Rochester has hosted a number of tournaments and their BB site is as good as any NESCAC ones wrt  size/seats.
On another site... a poster stated that the students at Rochester would be out for Spring break....therefore lack of home support. In short, there should be tickets available outside of individual participant school allowances.

[Ethelred the Unready]

Aside from some too sensitive posters who may have wrong info/impressions. here is more info.
By going to the U. of Rochester website, there is a nice video/pix show of their facilities and the location relative to other buildings.
Rochester has hosted a number of tournaments and their BB site is as good as any NESCAC ones wrt  size/seats.
On another site... a poster stated that the students at Rochester would be out for Spring break....therefore lack of home support. In short, there should be tickets available outside of individual participant school allowances.

The Palestra is a great place to watch a game.  Holds about 2,000 and with crowd above the floor it gives an interesting perspective. 

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

The fact that Midd. isn't hosting is a joke. You deserve to be bitter, Bucket. Panthers had the best resume in the country (One loss, to one of the top five teams in the country, without their best player). Someone should organize a bus and literally fill Rochester's gym with Midd. students. Forget assigned  sections.

I would like to know why they organized the bracket such that Williams would either get F&M or VW... VW scares me. A week of practice should do the Ephs A LOT of good. The fact that they are on their home floor is also a huge plus.

Argyleballer, to say people are hating on RIC is a little bit of a stretch... Just because a team is an underdog doesn't mean that people are 'hating' on them... That's like saying people are 'hating' on Kobe when they say that Lebron is better. Objective analysis does not equate to an insult.

That said, your point is well taken: RIC has done well in the underdog role before. And, as Williams fan, it would not be a bad thing if RIC won.  Amherst looks like they are on a roll, and it is a part of my nature not to root for the Jeffs. My positive sentiments in their general direction are limited to praising their ability to play basketball (or any other sport) and to wishing them luck.  

Eph, there as a great deal of debate on this issue on the centennial (and for an unknown reason, the landmark) boards last week.  Its part of the NCAA's geographic diversity program.  Apparently coaches are really psyched to take 7 hour bus drives and see new places.  Thats what i was told at least

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

on ESPN radio the other night, the sporting life did a great piece on middlebury college and a fan who attends many games.  Sadly his team will not get what it deserves, a home game this week.

Last week, all i was told about the regional finals was that the NCAA planned for all worst case scenarios.  In this case, their plan all along must have been for Rochester to host even though flights are probably available (and a better option) for SMC. 

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

As an F&M fan i was looking forward to a getaway to Williamstown this weekend, oh well.  For those interested, my scouting report on VaW would be the following:

They are very susceptible to being beaten inside.  F&M dominated down low for much of the game.  They are also quite poor from the charity stripe.  Their strengths are their athleticism and ability to drain the 3 pointer.  They also had a lot of trouble when F&M moved to a zone early in the game (and F&M is not a zone team). 

[JustAFan]

I am sympathetic to Middlebury not being able to host, a right that they earned and deserved, but Waltzy hit it on the head that the presence of 2 upstate NY teams in the pod made Rochester the better choice. 

The problem is not the presence of St. Mary's in the pod--they're going to have to get on a plane and travel in any event, and a quick look at Kayak indicates that they can fly to Burlington (or Albany and bus from there) just as easily as they can fly to Rochester.  The issue is whether you should make the 2 NY teams fly or bus to Middlebury or make 1 team (Middlebury) travel to Rochester (I don't count Buffalo State's one hour ride to Rochester as a travel trip).  Logic says making 1 team travel is better than making 2 travel.  But there appear to be plenty of flights from Rochester to Burlington next Thursday, so the availability of flights is not an issue (although none of the flights are direct, but most connect thru NYC or Newark with short layovers).  And for old timers like me, I don't think a 6 hour bus trip (from Rochester to Middlebury) or a 7 hour bus ride from Buffalo is that much of an imposition on a team, and cheaper, too.  I would have told Rochester and Buffalo to hire a bus and head northeast because Middlebury earned the right to host, but I'm sure the NCAA not only requires flights if the trip is over x miles but also has some rules that say that when you have the opportunity to only require 1 team to travel rather than 2 then that trumps all other factors.   So Middlebury unfortunately gets the short straw and has to gas up its bus Thursday morning.

By the way, I have not seen any of the other teams in this pod play, but I would not overlook St. Mary's or Buffalo State.  Buff State on paper looks a lot like RI College, with little height and a lot of quickness and a deep bench while St. Mary's is in the sweet 16 for the third year in a row and has some good height and some solid wins, including a 20 point win over Franklin and Marshall early in the season along with last night's easier than expected win over Randolph Macon.

Loose ends:  Frank, thanks for the clarification on Wang.  And to Amh63, I share your view about Carr's frustration last night against the Amherst frontline.  He had better lateral movement than he did the week before but did not display his usual jumping ability, which I attribute to his ankle injury. The WPI coach had an interesting quote in the local paper today in which he said he was especially impressed by Amherst's defense..something along the lines of "Their defense made it incredibly difficult for WPI to get anything going on offense, and on the other end they made the game look very easy".

[Bucket]

I am sympathetic to Middlebury not being able to host, a right that they earned and deserved, but Waltzy hit it on the head that the presence of 2 upstate NY teams in the pod made Rochester the better choice. 

The problem is not the presence of St. Mary's in the pod--they're going to have to get on a plane and travel in any event, and a quick look at Kayak indicates that they can fly to Burlington (or Albany and bus from there) just as easily as they can fly to Rochester.  The issue is whether you should make the 2 NY teams fly or bus to Middlebury or make 1 team (Middlebury) travel to Rochester (I don't count Buffalo State's one hour ride to Rochester as a travel trip).  Logic says making 1 team travel is better than making 2 travel.  But there appear to be plenty of flights from Rochester to Burlington next Thursday, so the availability of flights is not an issue (although none of the flights are direct, but most connect thru NYC or Newark with short layovers).  And for old timers like me, I don't think a 6 hour bus trip (from Rochester to Middlebury) or a 7 hour bus ride from Buffalo is that much of an imposition on a team, and cheaper, too.  I would have told Rochester and Buffalo to hire a bus and head northeast because Middlebury earned the right to host, but I'm sure the NCAA not only requires flights if the trip is over x miles but also has some rules that say that when you have the opportunity to only require 1 team to travel rather than 2 then that trumps all other factors.   So Middlebury unfortunately gets the short straw and has to gas up its bus Thursday morning.

JustAFan....everyone is traveling by bus, including St. Mary's. The NCAA won't pay for a flight when distance is less than 500 miles, and St. Mary's to Rochester clocks in at around 430. So St. Mary's has about a 9 hour bus ride ahead of them, instead of a flight to Burlington.

And, honestly, I don't care that there are two Western NY teams in the pod. You don't put the #2 team in the country, the #1 team in the region on a bus for 6 hours to play on its opponents home floor. It's an unconscionable move by the NCAA.

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

I am sympathetic to Middlebury not being able to host, a right that they earned and deserved, but Waltzy hit it on the head that the presence of 2 upstate NY teams in the pod made Rochester the better choice. 

The problem is not the presence of St. Mary's in the pod--they're going to have to get on a plane and travel in any event, and a quick look at Kayak indicates that they can fly to Burlington (or Albany and bus from there) just as easily as they can fly to Rochester.  The issue is whether you should make the 2 NY teams fly or bus to Middlebury or make 1 team (Middlebury) travel to Rochester (I don't count Buffalo State's one hour ride to Rochester as a travel trip).  Logic says making 1 team travel is better than making 2 travel.  But there appear to be plenty of flights from Rochester to Burlington next Thursday, so the availability of flights is not an issue (although none of the flights are direct, but most connect thru NYC or Newark with short layovers).  And for old timers like me, I don't think a 6 hour bus trip (from Rochester to Middlebury) or a 7 hour bus ride from Buffalo is that much of an imposition on a team, and cheaper, too.  I would have told Rochester and Buffalo to hire a bus and head northeast because Middlebury earned the right to host, but I'm sure the NCAA not only requires flights if the trip is over x miles but also has some rules that say that when you have the opportunity to only require 1 team to travel rather than 2 then that trumps all other factors.   So Middlebury unfortunately gets the short straw and has to gas up its bus Thursday morning.

JustAFan....everyone is traveling by bus, including St. Mary's. The NCAA won't pay for a flight when distance is less than 500 miles, and St. Mary's to Rochester clocks in at around 430. So St. Mary's has about a 9 hour bus ride ahead of them, instead of a flight to Burlington.

And, honestly, I don't care that there are two Western NY teams in the pod. You don't put the #2 team in the country, the #1 team in the region on a bus for 6 hours to play on its opponents home floor. It's an unconscionable move by the NCAA.

good point Bucket.  its funny how the NCAA will tell SMC, we'll send you 450 miles by bus but not 550 miles.  Common sense never really plays into what the NCAA does

[fpc85]

I haven't watched 'herst in person since '08. Any idea what time they play on Friday? Any suggestions for rooms or should I get a room closer to Amherst.
Jim and Cindy Meehan I hope to see you there!

[eph partisan]

You want to know who organized the brackets, but did you expect to play a bad team in the Sweet 16? How many bad teams are left at this stage of the tourney?

Not many! This is 80% bitterness that VW is rather good and 20% rational complaint that Amherst's Sweet 16 opponent is (apparently) weaker than ours, and would have been no matter the way the ball dropped. But your point is a fair one.

As an F&M fan i was looking forward to a getaway to Williamstown this weekend, oh well.  For those interested, my scouting report on VaW would be the following:

They are very susceptible to being beaten inside.  F&M dominated down low for much of the game.  They are also quite poor from the charity stripe.  Their strengths are their athleticism and ability to drain the 3 pointer.  They also had a lot of trouble when F&M moved to a zone early in the game (and F&M is not a zone team). 

Glad to hear it. Hopefully we can actually get Troy rolling in this game.

Thanks for the other info, Larry.

[grabtherim]

Bucket, you are 100% correct.  Taking away something players earned over a season and via a tough conference tournament is a absurd.  The only thing more absurd is defending it or attempting to explain it away.  Insult to injury is Williams playing at home this weekend.  Perhaps Middlebury would have been better off losing last Saturday at Williams and getting that path to a possible Final Four.  Sending the # 2 team in the country on the road for a six hour bus trip because of a few more miles of travel versus honoring them for earning that # 2 position is beyond belief.  The NCAA is a joke, and clearly has lost touch with reality.  

[amh63]

fpc85.....here are my two bits.  Williamstown has two nice places close by.....one being the Williams Inn and another much pricier one on the other end.  Both are not cheap.  There are chain hotels in nearby North Adams, about 5-6 miles away.  There are also rooms in Pittsfield....a Hilton, if it is still a Hilton and there are a number of Inns/motels from Lee up to Lenox up to Pittsfield.  All these from Pittsfield will take at least a half hour or more to get to the BB game.  If you get a room near Holyoke/Springfield...the other end the Ma. Turnpike, it will take you about 45 minutes longer.  If you stay near Amherst/Northampton where there many new hotels it will take another half hour longer....unless you know the backroads..to Pittsfield or North Adams.  Not a good thing  to do this time of the year. These are based on my many visits many years ago to the Berkshires for work and play.....even the Williamstown theater events in the Summer and Tanglewood in Lenox.  
Better info should be forthcoming, I'm sure from other posters who have more recent info.

[booyakasha]

Sending the # 2 team in the country on the road for a six hour bus trip because of a few more miles of travel versus honoring them for earning that # 2 position is beyond belief.

What's even crazier is sending the #1 team in the country on the road for six hours, which is actually what's happening. Middlebury CLEARLY should be #1 over Whitworth, and the poll has lost some credibility in my opinion.