MBB: NESCAC

[lefrakenstein]

Thanks for defending my grandfather in my absence Amh63.

also, "I've personally never heard of anyone plunging to their probable demise there" seems to be a bit of a weak defense for a stretch of road, don't you think nescac1? I would say the fact that it needs 20 warning signs is enough to qualify it as a pretty treacherous turn.

I'm surprised more Williams folks aren't protesting Walzy's pick'em line. Maybe on a neutral court, but in Chandler I'd definitely take the Ephs.

[amh63]

Some thoughts to cool the heads on this debate on fairness and travel...before going to dinner.
While going to the Amherst website, I notice that Midd.'s Women's hockey team kicked Amherst out of a chance to defend their Nat. title.  Congrats to Midd.  To Amherst, enjoy Spring break.   Did notice that the conference Spring sport teams were heading to AZ., Florida and warmer climates.  The tougher Amherst teams....lacrosse plays this weekend in New England...ugh.  The baseball team who has a Midd. grad. as head coach is in Florida for training.  Isn't the baseball team larger than the BB team.  Heck, Amherst's tennis team is larger than the BB teams and they are traveling somewhere warm.  Wait, I have a great thought.  
In the future, if there is a chance that a conference team can host a sectional In BB due to its ranking and the NCAA is thinking of moving the school because of travel distance and money, etc.......I suggest that the conference offers to fly the other teams into the host site.  A sort of slush funds to allow deserving conference teams to host.  If it is Amherst, I am willing to contribute to the slush fund.  Any merit here?  Maybe if it is worded as a subsidy fund or a scholarship fund....more PC?

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Can you spell condescending NCAA apologist with no sense of fairness.  It's spelled McHugh.

Wow... you really don't know what I am saying then. I am not apologizing for the NCAA and I completely understand fairness... but I also understand the situation everything that fall under:

   
Re: 2011 Division 3 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #1818 on: Today at 16:16:17 »    Reply with quote Modify message Remove message
Simple - UWSP women and men had the chance to host the sectional... and it was decided the women would get the nod (from this experience we now alternate the hosting opportunities by round and by year); Lawrence's gym was too small and the other team was going to fly anyway... so they shipped everyone out to Puget Sound.

It isn't the perfect scenario... but it happened.

Whitworth I know was part of a conversation to see if they could be hosting weeks before the season ended... and you can probably bet the beancounters are the ones that said it wouldn't happen.

Here is the bylaw we all talk about but probably have never read:
31.3.4 S election Decisions of Sports Committees.
The determination of sites, selection of teams or individuals, or their site assignment in championships competition made by a governing sports committee (or a designated subcommittee) may not be appealed. (Adopted: 4/13/10)

31.3.4.1 Pairings and Site Selection.
The following criteria will be used for pairings and site selections: (Adopted: 4/13/10)
(a) Once selected, teams shall be grouped in clusters according to natural-geographic proximity. Teams shall then be paired according to geographic proximity. A team may be moved to numerically balance the bracket if geographic proximity is maintained. Teams shall be paired and eligible according to geographic proximity (within 500 miles). An exception may be granted when there are not enough teams within the 500-mile radius to fill the region;
(b) Teams may be seeded on a regional basis using the regional-selection criteria. However, geographic proximity shall take precedent over seeding;
(c) Teams from the same conference shall not play one another in the first round as long as geographic proximity is maintained; and
(d) The highest-seeded team that meets all selection criteria shall be selected as the host institution, provided geographic proximity is maintained.

I am not apologizing... but there is reality... and I understand if you feel Middlebury got shafted - I truely wish Middlebury got the chance to host. But the reality of Division III championships is what is above. Can they change it in the future... sure. But this is the general rule every championship in Division III plays within and every committee tries to stretch as much as they can - before the beancounters say no.

[Bucket]

Ok, we've all vented enough; I certainly have. But let's enjoy the fact that three of our teams are among the 16 playing on Friday. Let's start talking about the games!

[jayhawk]

Dave
Thanks
You can not please everyone even when you state the rules which guides the process
Time to move on

[Mr. Ypsi]

Dave, grabtherim has obviously never heard (or believed) the saying "don't shoot the messenger".  You have made a good faith (and imo successful) effort to explain why the situation occurred, which is obviously (at least to most of us) not the same thing as being an apologist for it.  What grabtherim also fails to understand is that the rules are set by the member institutions (within the financial limitations that exist due to D1 not being more generous with the March Madness dollars); the 'NCAA' is not some alien entity out to screw D3, but only the administrator (sometimes correctly; sometimes not) of those rules.  In a totally fair universe, Whitworth would also be hosting, but the odds of that are virtually nil.

[eph partisan]

Thanks for defending my grandfather in my absence Amh63.

also, "I've personally never heard of anyone plunging to their probable demise there" seems to be a bit of a weak defense for a stretch of road, don't you think nescac1? I would say the fact that it needs 20 warning signs is enough to qualify it as a pretty treacherous turn.

I'm surprised more Williams folks aren't protesting Walzy's pick'em line. Maybe on a neutral court, but in Chandler I'd definitely take the Ephs.

Lefrakenstein, I will not question your grandfather's judgement - can't really blame him for not wanting to make that turn in winter. nescac1 is right to say, though, that being careful is a good way around that dilemma, and that turn has not yet deterred me from attending an Ephs-Jeffs game.

As for Walzy's line, I would have had Williams -5 - and, on the pick 'em, I'll definitely take the Ephs. But I tend not to question walzy on his lines - he knows more about the business than I do, as it were. I only question his choice of institution...

The points about the NCAA are good ones. Doesn't change the frustration - or the fact that I wish that there were more of a budget allocated to D3! EDIT: Dave, I agree with Mr. Ypsi, jhawk, and Bucket...

The poll debate has gotten a little heated. The thing about polls is that they are all, inherently, based on subjective judgement. Part of what is great about polls is that we can argue about them. I, too, think it's a little strange that Middlebury was second - but I haven't seen every team in the poll play, and the voters should go with their opinions. I think it's fair to say that they know more about the national scene than I do.

To me, it is almost a tossup as who goes to Salem from Williamstown. I would give a slight nod to Amherst, but it is very close. I would think that Middlebury is the clear favorite in Rochester.

As for Williams, playing the last four games against opponents who want to play ugly, rough, pressing games, has been an advantage for us. We are getting used to that style of play, and are getting better at it. It has also allowed our 3rd guard, Rooke-Ley, to emerge as a serious offensive threat. Also, Rooke-Ley is emerging as the new Chuck Abba on defense. Hayden is really tough -- something we have been missing. This now gives us four players who can explode offensively. I have been concerned all year about our over reliance on Wang and Whittington. Now, we have sufficient weapons to compete with any attempt to shut our primary scorers down. 

I gotta say, from as rational a place as is possible in this context, I like the Ephs to advance, and would call them the favorite. They're at home, and Chandler is nuts. Maker will have them ready. Whittington and Wang are the two best players there (I would be willing to hear arguments, particularly because I am not familiar with VW and James has been a little off, but it's at the very least close). The Ephs, in fact, have five players that can really put it in the basket when they assert themselves, including Robertson and Klemm. Rooke-Ley's emergence has been coming all season, and is going to be a huge asset. As nescac1 pointed out, they have grown accustomed to playing the type of game that VW will throw at them. RIC is going to give Amherst a game - it's not as though (if they win) the Jeffs won't be tired. I am picking the Ephs and the Panthers to end up in the Final Four. Though you didn't need me to write this to know that, I bet...

[Pat Coleman]

Blame the bean counters, blame anyone you like, Middlebury EARNED the home games.  I don't care about 540 miles vs 499.  Screw political correctness and those who apoloize or explain away the morons who make the rules with no accountabilty to anyone. 

Grab -- NCAA member schools made the rules. If you want them changed, start with Middlebury's president. I suspect they'll have a new appreciation for the 500-mile rule and what it means now, right?

The rules are not made by some faceless bureaucrat in Indianapolis.

[jayhawk]

thanks for clarification

[walzy31]

Friday March 11th NESCAC NCAA Spreads

Middlebury @ Rochester
Middlebury -1.5
O/U: 114.5

Virginia-Wesleyan @ Williams
Pick'em
O/U: 151.0

Amherst Vs. Rhode Island College (@ Williams)
Amherst -12.0
O/U: 158.5

Friday March 11th NESCAC NCAA Updated Spreads

Middlebury @ Rochester
Middlebury -3.0
O/U: 116.5

Virginia-Wesleyan @ Williams
Williams -2.0
O/U: 151.5

Amherst Vs. Rhode Island College (@ Williams)
Amherst -11.5
O/U: 158.5

[DeWayneCarter]

VWC fan here... just to give some info on the Marlins for those who may be unfamiliar... VWC is a much more balanced team than they have been in the past...  4 guys average double figures and they go 10 deep at times. They like to play a transition game by getting stops and deflections by getting out and running, but also play a halfcourt game at times. Defensively they like to force the tempo. They may be one of the country's more athletic teams so they like to use that to their advantage. The team's leading scorer is a freshman, who is also a very athletic player.... their main post player, Donald Vaughn, stands at about 6'5", is long, and may be one of the most athletic players in all of D3... his highlight dunks and blocked shots are evidence of that. Another thing about this team is that they will shoot alot of 3s.... make or miss and that can at times be a double edged sword. When they are on and hitting they are one of the best teams around, but when the shots aren't falling thats when they have had their problems. I think that they will matchup well with Williams. I saw Williams play in the national title game last year and saw some youtube clips of them from this year and from what I see, Wang, Whittington, and Klemm make them go. Wang and Whittington are two very good players from what I've seen, and judging by the box scores it seems that Klemm is their primary threat to score from the outside... can anyone fill me in on anything else I might need to know about Williams? I'll be glad to answer any questions you guys have about VWC...

Just to give you a little glimpse of the Marlins, here is a youtube video from a local news highlight segment from one of their better games.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJAnmcI_TNM

[DeWayneCarter]

And here is another highlight tape from the Marlins' first 2 games of this year's NCAA Tournament http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMpwi_Rc6wM

[grabtherim]

OK, I agree enough is enough.  Time to move on to the games this weekend.  That being said, don't get me started on what the NCAA charges for T Shirts.  Seriously, how many if any NESCAC teams do we see in the Elite 8?  Not having seen any of the opponents, nothing will surprise me, but it will be a great watch. 

[nescac1]

Thanks for the info and links, DeWayne.  VWU looks and sounds very tough.  Vaughn sounds like a similar player to Whittington, though surely not as polished / efficient / physically strong.  Troy will have to win that match-up in a big way for Williams to advance.  As for the rest of the Marlins, they look extremely quick.  The Williams guards usually do a good job of staying in front of their men, but the Marlins will pose a big challenge.  For the Ephs to win, I think they will have to (1) win the inside battle, both in terms of getting buckets inside and earning some second chance opportunities vs. the smaller Marlins, and (2) take care of the ball better than they did this weekend -- fewer turnovers, as they can't afford to give up a ton of transition points ... make them score vs. the Williams half-court D, which for the most part has been playing very well.

Speaking of videos, here is a highlight video of Wang:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBqjGRyRtyE

His penchant for the spectacular play is truly remarkable ... Williams will need him at his best all weekend.   

I hope and expect that other posters are right, that the last few games will have the Ephs better prepared for a fast-paced aggressive team like the Marlins.  Having Nate Robertson back to (I assume) full strength or close to it will be a huge plus.  Against a team like VWU, the Ephs should almost always have two of their three top ball-handlers (Rooke-Ley and Wang as well) on the floor.     

[eph partisan]

Building off of nescac1...

To be honest, DeWayne, I think it is a little bit difficult to pigeonhole the Ephs' style at the moment. They've been consistently excellent defensively - Husson was the first team to score more than 70 on the team since early January, and they have held their opponents to 37 percent shooting on the season, and held Midd and Amherst to 40 percent shooting the last times we played each - because of excellent rotations and Whittington in the middle.

We run one of the many variations of he read-and-react motion offense, and we, too, rely heavily on three point shooting. We'll get out and run if the opportunities are there, but it is not really something we'll force too much. The way the flow of the offense works varies game to game, but you can trust that Wang will get his points. Whittington has been a bit less of a factor offensively in the last several games because teams have been collapsing on him, but it is very difficult to predict when either he or Wang will just explode offensively.

You are right that Klemm is the third option, but he is probably our number two scorer from outside behind Wang, and if you want to talk about guys that make our team go, you look at Nate Robertson. He and James share PG duties, and he is capable of doing damage offensively, but his role on the team is really as a glue guy. We have several other guys that can knock it down from deep as well - Emerson, our back up center, and Epley have been good all year, and Rooke-Ley appears to have found his shot. We definitely don't go 10 deep, though.

Any other important facts about VW? Do you have someone that can lock down Wang? Do you think that Vaughn matches up well with Troy?