MBB: NESCAC

frank uible · May 24, 2011, 04:05:18 PM

NESCAC raises its ugly head again.

Bucket · May 25, 2011, 07:14:24 PM

A couple of nice hoops pieces in the spring issue of Middlebury Magazine

:

http://blogs.middlebury.edu/middmag/2011/05/23/hoop-dreams/

http://blogs.middlebury.edu/middmag/2011/05/23/the-anomaly/

Old Guy · May 30, 2011, 10:54:30 AM

That young (25) Charlie Furbush mowing 'em down for the Detroit Tigers after having been called up a couple of weeks ago is the younger brother of Jon Furbush, Bates Coach (and older brother of Will Furbush,12 Bates player) of the South Portland (ME) Furbushes. Nice to have another Mainer in the majors. Charlie attended St. Joseph's College in Windham, Maine.

walzy31 · June 02, 2011, 01:10:29 AM

Quote from: Old Guy on May 30, 2011, 10:54:30 AM
That young (25) Charlie Furbush mowing 'em down for the Detroit Tigers after having been called up a couple of weeks ago is the younger brother of Jon Furbush, Bates Coach (and older brother of Will Furbush,12 Bates player) of the South Portland (ME) Furbushes. Nice to have another Mainer in the majors. Charlie attended St. Joseph's College in Windham, Maine.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/8869

nescac1 · June 16, 2011, 05:20:24 PM

Quiet Spring here. Now that recruiting is complete, any thoughts on who are expected to be the biggest impact newcomers based on the combination of talent and opportunity? Which team has the best shot to knock one off one of the big three (I'd say Bowdoin, possibly Wesleyan) next season?

nescac1 · June 17, 2011, 06:23:05 AM

Congrats to the Ephs on a 13th straight Director's Cup. Amherst, Midd and Williams all finished in the top four, after all made the Elite 8 in men's hoops -- incredible athletics year for all three.

The standings:

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/nacda/sports/directorscup/auto_pdf/d3june17.pdf

jumpshot · June 17, 2011, 09:15:51 AM

The student athletes, coaches, administrators, and staff at Williams College deserve another "quiet well done" for the tone, sportsmanship, and character of the athletic component of a great college.
While other schools will ultimately be awarded a Director Cup, none will win thirteen in a row and 15 out of 16 ---at least in my lifetime.

http://williams.prestosports.com/sports/General_News_Items/06-17-2011_Ephs_Finish_1st_in_Directors-_Cup

The combination of decades of excellence in academics and amateur athletics develops people capable of going far beyond the comfortable and familiar with the will and discipline for making the world better!

frank uible · June 17, 2011, 09:51:42 AM

Whoa! - Stanford currently has won 17 consecutive Directors' Cups.

jumpshot · June 17, 2011, 11:05:15 AM

Thanks, Frank, I am well aware of Stanford's achievement. Obviously I was referring to Division III with which this board is primarily concerned.

lefrakenstein · June 28, 2011, 10:38:10 AM

Ok, so I know it's bad form to complain about William's Director's Cup. It really is, in all fairness, a terrific accomplishment.

However, I think it's worth noting that Williams racks up many of its points in sports that other schools do not even compete in. For instance, this year Williams' final score was 1,147 while Middlebury finished with 1,063 and Amherst had 889.5.

The difference between Williams and Amherst was 257.5 points. Of that gap 199 points came from sports in which Amherst does not compete (women's rowing - 100, skiing - 48, wrestling - 51). In sports in which both schools compete Amherst's deficit was only 58.5 points, a much smaller margin. To give an idea, if either the basketball quarters or women's tennis championship had gone the other way, Amherst would have won by roughly the same amount. I don't have the time to go back and check, but I'd heavily wager that in at least a few of the last 13 years, Amherst has acquired more points in common sports than Williams has.

Also, this year, Middlebury scored more points than Williams in sports in which they both compete. Middlebury does not compete in women's rowing, which is 100 points right off the bat, more than enough to make up the difference between the two schools.

EDIT: Just realized that, since my graduation, Amherst has added a wrestling program. However, it is considered only a 'club sport' (not sure if you can get points for that) and the last season was only its second in existence. I think my point still holds.

gordonmann · June 28, 2011, 10:56:29 AM

That's always been the case and it's a big reason why the Director's Cup doesn't have much cache in certain regions or conferences. That's not meant to be a knock on Williams achievements or the overall excellence of their athletic program.

But when your metric for success includes skiing, hockey (men's and women's), lacrosse (men's and women's) and women's rowing, you're putting schools in the regions that don't have those sports at a major disadvantage.

frank uible · June 28, 2011, 11:10:07 AM

One always has the options of ignoring the Directors' Cup or establishing its own version of a "cup" scored as it chooses or trying to improve its performance under the Directors' Cup either in sports it currently has or by adding new sports or both.

nescac1 · June 28, 2011, 11:14:14 AM

Four responses to lefrankenstein. First, nothing is stopping Amherst from competing in those sports. The Director's Cup is a measure of both breadth and depth of success ... it is NOT a measure of how successful your typical or average sports team is, and doesn't pretend to be. In all events, there is no guarantee that if Amherst and Midd DID field those additional sports, they would earn a substantial number of points in the Director's Cup.

Second, you can only score points in up to 18 (9 men max, 9 women max) varsity sports, so just merely fielding more sports teams isn't going to guarantee Director's Cup success. Indeed, in certain years (I believe), Williams would have scored even MORE points but for these limits.

Third, remember that Williams admits as many top-notch recruits (TIPS) as Amherst (66), and fewer than Midd (72). Williams has to spread these among more sports than Amherst or Midd, so that in some ways should be an advantage in some sports where Midd or Amherst could feature more recruited athletes than Williams. Maybe Williams would, for example, also be a power in women's ice hockey if it allocated its TIPS from, say, wrestling, crew, and skiing to that sport.

Fourth, in the sports that NEVER count in Director's Cup (men's and women's squash and football, and men's crew), Williams is consistently stronger than either Midd or Amherst. Among those, of course, are Trinity's three best sports -- if Director's Cup (squash) or NESCAC (football) rules allowed, Trinity would surely rank much higher in the Cup on an annual basis.

lefrakenstein · June 28, 2011, 11:34:16 AM

Fair points all, nescac1. As I said earlier, I didn't mean to suggest that winning the cup so many times in a row was anything less than extraordinary.

However, I would reply by saying 1) that I doubt that many TIPS really go to sports like wrestling, skiing, etc. I imagine that it is fairly easy to acquire points in these sports simply by fielding a team and hiring a competent coach. I doubt that more than a half-dozen schools even have a ski team.

2) Williams also has a significantly larger student body to draw from than does Amherst. While it may not sound like much to have 400 more students, that's almost 25% of amherst's total student population. And while walk-ons may not make a huge difference in the larger sports, when it comes to the more borderline sports it can make a huge difference. I know, for instance, that women's crew at Amherst would love to row eights (rather than fours - which are not counted in ncaa competitions) but have never been able to draw enough interest from the student body. Getting the women's crew team large enough to row 8's would alone be a huge factor in cutting down William's advantage, and having 25% more students to draw from would very possibly put them over the edge.

3) Even in years when williams has gone over the 18 team limit, i imagine the near-perennial championships in women's rowing and high finishes in skiing have not been the sports to be cut. It is a little ridiculous that you get the same number of points for winning women's rowing as you do for winning say, basketball, in which many, many more schools compete. A system in which points were allocated to sports based on the number of competing schools would, in my opinion, do a better job of measuring overall competitiveness. However, it is clear that one of the Director's Cup's aims is to encourage and reward schools for fielding teams in as many sports as possible.

lefrakenstein · June 28, 2011, 11:45:19 AM

I guess my overall point is that, even in a very down year for Williams and an extraordinary year for Middlebury, Amherst, or any other school, Williams would almost assuredly still win the cup. The reason for this is the sheer number of Director's Cup teams that Williams fields. The actual level of competitiveness between the three schools is very close, and while I would concede that Williams is probably the most successful most years, there have certainly been years when Midd or Amherst's teams have won the majority of their contests against the Ephs. When Williams fans reference the DC, their point is generally that Williams has been more successful in their sports than Amherst has been, and that is not actually, when you get down to the nitty-gritty, what the DC measures.