MBB: NESCAC

[quicksilver]

I guess I stand corrected on the enrollment numbers, nescac 1.....thanks.  I was too "loose" with the enrollment numbers in my previous post......so I went to the appropriate websites to get the latest posted enrollments....as a reference for future discussions (I hope not).   They are as follows:
Amherst - 1744 students..all undergrads.
Williams - 2173 undergrads.  54 grads.   with the Class of 2014 having 549 students.
Midd.- 2350 undergraduates.
Nescac 1...did your 2500 students for Midd. include graduate students?
Anyway, have a nice Summer all.  Will hope to chat again in the Fall on the Football board.

Middlebury has 2532 undergrads as per its own common data set:

http://www.middlebury.edu/media/view/273449/original/commondataset2010_2011.pdf

Not sure why Middlebury posted that "about 2350" number elsewhere on its website -- perhaps that number omits the Feb admits.

[walzy31]

July 1 superhero probables:

Williams
Wang -600
Robertson +190

Amherst
Toomey -350
Waller +300
Workman +300

Middlebury
Sharry -800
Thompson +160
Kizel +500

[walzy31]

According to the most recent odds posted, still no team in the 'cac has two superheros. I also would like to point out that there have been teams with two superheros and not enough sidekick support (ie. Mills/Johnson, Rhoten/Halas, Ray/Stockwell) to be a final four contender. And obviously, the one superhero teams with no sidekicks struggle the most (Petrie, Pierce, Hanley, S. Brown, Choice, McGlynn, L. Jones).

However, if Robertson or Waller play like they did in the NCAA tournament for the entirety of next season they could get that status. I'm also hoping Workman continues to improve...he reminds me of Fletcher Walters more and more each day. Barrise is the #1 side kick (agreeing with Nescac1 on Abba as the side kick and Coffin as a superhero).

I think Middlebury will take some time transitioning into the post-Locke defensive era, but that by winter break they will be at or very near to their level of play at the end of last season. Edwards approached that status in the Rudin era and I think Thompson is right there with Tim.

National Championship winning point producing squads are tough:

Olson
Wheeler
Baskauskas
McLaughlin
Walters
Hopkins

&

Crotty
Coffin
Abba
Demuth
Folan
Kain

[walzy31]

As it is written, "Let Williams have the Director's Cup and let Amherst have the town of Amherst."

[Old Guy]

"Middlebury has 2532 undergrads as per its own common data set:"

I've always thought 2350 was a reliable number. I think the discrepancy may have to do with how we count our (junior) students on our own study abroad programs. They are technically enrolled at Middlebury, paying Middlebury fees, but not on campus.

I don't know who's coming in. I find out on this board. I like it in the fall when school starts: I ask players on the team, "who looks good?" This year they were all saying, "Joey," a guard. I said, "Joey who?" and they had no idea his last name. I find out soon enough. This approach, however, handicaps my handicapping at this stage.

Middlebury will be different next year, without the big goalie. There's a sense that last year's frosh class has some good players who didn't get much time. There's lots there. 3 of 5 starters are back, plus versatile soph James Jensen - a interesting player who saw considerable minutes down the stretch. I think Walzy's right. It may take Midd a little time to jell, but we should be good again.

It's hard to think of Sharry and Thompson as "Super-heroes" as their games are so un-flashy. Both took fewer than 10 shots a game (9.9 & 8.6). Sharry will draw more attention next year.

[Bucket]

"Middlebury has 2532 undergrads as per its own common data set:"


I don't know who's coming in. I find out on this board. I like it in the fall when school starts: I ask players on the team, "who looks good?" This year they were all saying, "Joey," a guard. I said, "Joey who?" and they had no idea his last name. I find out soon enough. This approach, however, handicaps my handicapping at this stage.

I had a similar experience this spring. Talked to Ryan Sharry shortly after a couple of the incoming first-years had been on campus for campus preview days and had played pick-up with the team. Sharry's eyes got really big and said "these guys can play." I didn't get any names, though.

I second Old Guy's observation of Jensen. I know that another NESCAC coach fully expects Jensen to be in the starting line-up next year. He certainly has the athleticism and talent to be a factor, and if his basketball I.Q  continues to increase, then he could develop into a potent classmate complement to Joey.

Also, Old Guy notes that 3 of 5 starters return, but that doesn't include Kizell. He came off the bench, but played starters' minutes.

[jumpshot]

Walzy,
Perhaps it is the natural beauty of Williamstown that attracts student/athletes that in 2010-2011 provided some great moments in competitions against Amherst:

1. Beating Amherst College in football in the town of Amherst 31-16 to complete an undefeated season; series now stands 71-48-5 in favor of Williams who has won 19 of last 24 games;
2. Beating Amherst in men's basketball in March in Chandler to take Williams to a back-to-back Final Four;
3. Beating Amherst in the NCAA Finals of women's tennis for the National Championship;
4. Finishing ahead of Amherst in the NCAA championships in men and women's cross country, men and women's swimming, women's golf, etc.

The Directors' Cup, as with Jostens Awards, # 1 ranking in U.S. News & World Report, Fortune, and Forbes, and numerous other awards each year, is simply recognition that accrues as a result of consistency of purpose and sustained excellence. Perhaps you and Lefrakenstein can design an award that fits Amherst's attributes and present it to the new president this year.

[walzy31]

"Middlebury has 2532 undergrads as per its own common data set:"
It's hard to think of Sharry and Thompson as "Super-heroes" as their games are so un-flashy. Both took fewer than 10 shots a game (9.9 & 8.6). Sharry will draw more attention next year.

Tim Duncan was also not flashy. Sharry is really really good.

[walzy31]

Walzy,
Perhaps it is the natural beauty of Williamstown that attracts student/athletes that in 2010-2011 provided some great moments in competitions against Amherst:

1. Beating Amherst College in football in the town of Amherst 31-16 to complete an undefeated season; series now stands 71-48-5 in favor of Williams who has won 19 of last 24 games;
2. Beating Amherst in men's basketball in March in Chandler to take Williams to a back-to-back Final Four;
3. Beating Amherst in the NCAA Finals of women's tennis for the National Championship;
4. Finishing ahead of Amherst in the NCAA championships in men and women's cross country, men and women's swimming, women's golf, etc.

The Directors' Cup, as with Jostens Awards, # 1 ranking in U.S. News & World Report, Fortune, and Forbes, and numerous other awards each year, is simply recognition that accrues as a result of consistency of purpose and sustained excellence. Perhaps you and Lefrakenstein can design an award that fits Amherst's attributes and present it to the new president this year.

You're right. As measured by all metrics (including football, women's tennis, men's and women's XC, men's and women's swimming, women's golf, the Directors' Cup, US News & World Report, Fortune, Forbes, alumni, and the children of the corn), Williams possesses a more consistent purpose and higher sustained excellence than Amherst.

You've also got MCLA to tap into and balance out the social and cultural bubble of a small liberal arts school. I just wish Amherst had one or two or three schools nearby that we could interact with... unfortunately we don't, and we spend our time smiling at our 2nd place trophies scattered around campus and kissing Williams' ring.

[met_fan]

Maybe Amherst and Williams should just form their own division to spare the rest of us the humiliation of trying to compete with them in all things athletic and academic.

[frank uible]

There is an old saying in thoroughbred horse racing, which is designed as a a guide to evidencing class - "lose as if you like it; win as if you are accustomed to it".

[gordonmann]

That's an interesting phrase.  I've never heard anyone suggest you should act as if you like losing.  Are you sure that's not intended for horses who get things they like to eat whether they win or lose?

[frank uible]

Corollaries to the saying might be Paul Brown's well known "when you win say nothing, when you lose say less" and also the principle that one behave the same when one wins as when he loses.

[grabtherim]

Why would anyone want to lose as if they like it?  I believe in an athlete or team should be both a classy winner or loser, but "lose as if you like it"? Maybe that's why I never liked horse racing.  When I lose a bet, I don't like it...

[frank uible]

A little googling reveals that the horse racing saying originated with Ralph Waldo Emerson.