MBB: NESCAC

[formerbant10]

Thats too bad, as long as it doesn't interfere with regional games then I like the idea of it.  Trinity had a very grueling schedule in late November/ early December which gave them two out of region wins and two in region losses.  At the end of the year, those two losses kept them out of the tourney.  Both teams they lost to got in, one of them (Springfield) taking a Pool C.  Is Trin's schedule up yet, I haven't seen it.

[Pat Coleman]

Haven't seen it. A lot of NESCAC schools are very slow to release their schedules. Here's what we have from Trinity's opponents:

http://www.d3hoops.com/school_info.php?school=Trinity%20(Conn.)&team=m&year=2006

[formerbant10]

Trinity is usually the slowest of them all.  Pat, how do you think the Bant's will do this year??

[Pat Coleman]

FYI on Gwynedd-Mercy/Trinity (Conn.) directions:

Time   Mile   Instruction   For   Toward
Summary:  200.5 miles (5 hours, 9 minutes)
9:00 AM   0.0   Depart Gwynedd-Mercy College [Sumneytown Pike, Ambler, PA  19002] on Local road(s) (North-West)   65 yds   
9:00 AM   0.1   Turn LEFT (West) onto Local road(s)   0.4 mi   
9:02 AM   0.4   Turn LEFT (South-East) onto Sumneytown Pike   1.0 mi   
9:03 AM   1.4   Road name changes to Norristown Rd   4.5 mi   
9:12 AM   5.9   Bear RIGHT (East) onto SR-463 [Horsham Rd]   1.1 mi   
9:16 AM   7.0   Bear RIGHT (South-East) onto SR-611 [Easton Rd]   0.2 mi   
9:16 AM   7.2   Bear LEFT (East) onto Horsham Rd   1.1 mi   
9:20 AM   8.3   Turn LEFT (North-East) onto SR-263 [S York Rd]   0.3 mi   
9:21 AM   8.6   Turn RIGHT (East) onto Byberry Ave   0.5 mi   
9:23 AM   9.0   Road name changes to Byberry Rd   0.8 mi   
9:25 AM   9.8   Turn LEFT (East) onto Davisville Rd   0.9 mi   
9:28 AM   10.7   Turn RIGHT (South-East) onto (E) County Line Rd   1.0 mi   
9:31 AM   11.7   Turn LEFT (North-East) onto James Way   0.4 mi   
9:33 AM   12.1   Turn RIGHT (South-East) onto Jaymor Rd   0.3 mi   
9:34 AM   12.4   Turn RIGHT (South) onto SR-232 [2nd St Pike]   174 yds   
9:35 AM   12.5   Turn LEFT (East) onto Industrial Blvd   1.0 mi   
9:38 AM   13.5   Turn LEFT (North-East) onto Gravel Hill Rd   0.1 mi   
9:39 AM   13.6   Turn RIGHT (South-East) onto McNelis Dr   0.2 mi   
9:40 AM   13.9   Turn LEFT (North-East) onto Heppe Dr   0.1 mi   
9:41 AM   14.0   Turn RIGHT (South-East) onto SR-132 [Street Rd]   0.8 mi   
9:43 AM   14.8   Turn LEFT (North-East) onto Roberts Ave   0.1 mi   
9:43 AM   14.9   Turn RIGHT (South-East) onto Ruth St   0.2 mi   
9:45 AM   15.1   Turn LEFT (North-East) onto Hoover Ave   0.2 mi   
9:45 AM   15.3   Turn RIGHT (South) onto Bustleton Pike   0.1 mi   
9:46 AM   15.4   Bear LEFT (East) onto Local road(s)   32 yds   
9:47 AM   15.4   Bear LEFT (North-East) onto SR-532 [Bridgetown Pike]   32 yds   
9:47 AM   15.5   Road name changes to SR-213 [SR-532]   120 yds   
9:48 AM   15.5   Keep STRAIGHT onto SR-213 [Bridgetown Pike]   2.1 mi   
9:53 AM   17.6   Bear RIGHT (East) onto SR-213 [W Maple Ave]   2.6 mi   
9:59 AM   20.3   Keep STRAIGHT onto SR-213 [E Maple Ave]   1.9 mi   
10:03 AM   22.1   Bear RIGHT (East) onto SR-213 [Maple Ave]   0.3 mi   
10:04 AM   22.4   Merge onto US-1 Bus [E Lincoln Hwy]   0.5 mi   
10:06 AM   23.0   Keep STRAIGHT onto US-1 Bus [Lincoln Hwy]   3.2 mi   
10:14 AM   26.1   Bear RIGHT (North-East) onto (W) Trenton Ave   2.6 mi   
10:21 AM   28.8   Entering New Jersey      
10:21 AM   28.8   Road name changes to Calhoun St   0.4 mi   
10:23 AM   29.1   Turn RIGHT (East) onto W Hanover St, then immediately turn LEFT (North-East) onto Camden St   0.1 mi   
10:24 AM   29.2   Turn RIGHT (East) onto Passaic St   0.2 mi   
10:25 AM   29.5   Road name changes to Bank St   0.1 mi   
10:26 AM   29.6   Road name changes to Perry St   0.4 mi   
10:26 AM   30.0   Take Ramp (RIGHT) onto US-1 [Trenton Fwy]   25.8 mi   US-1 / Princeton / New York
      Resurfacing between Plainsboro and Kingston (June 24, 2005 - October 31, 2005)      
11:05 AM   55.8   Take Ramp (RIGHT) onto SR-18   0.8 mi   I-95 / New Brunswick / South River / Old Bridge / New Jersey Turnpike
11:06 AM   56.6   Turn RIGHT onto Ramp   0.3 mi   N.J. Turnpike
11:06 AM   56.8   Keep LEFT to stay on Ramp   0.3 mi   New York and North
11:07 AM   57.2   Keep LEFT to stay on Ramp   0.3 mi   Cars Only
11:07 AM   57.5   *Toll road* Merge onto I-95 [New Jersey Tpke Cars Only Ln]   33.9 mi   
11:39 AM   91.4   Stay on I-95 [New Jersey Tpke] (North)   6.8 mi   
11:43 AM   96.8   Entering New York      
11:45 AM   98.2   At exit 1C, turn RIGHT onto Ramp   0.2 mi   I-87 / Maj Deegan Expwy / Albany / Queens
11:45 AM   98.4   Take Ramp (RIGHT) onto I-87 [Major Deegan Expy]   5.1 mi   I-87 / Albany
11:52 AM   103.5   *Toll road* Stay on I-87 [New York State Throughway] (North)   1.9 mi   
11:54 AM   105.3   At exit 4, take Ramp (RIGHT) onto Central Park Ave   0.2 mi   Cross County Pkwy
11:54 AM   105.6   Keep RIGHT onto Ramp   153 yds   Cross County Pkwy East / Bronx River Pkwy
11:54 AM   105.6   Keep RIGHT to stay on Ramp   0.2 mi   Kimball Ave / Bronx Pkwy / W Broad St
11:55 AM   105.9   Keep LEFT to stay on Ramp   0.5 mi   
11:55 AM   106.4   Keep LEFT to stay on Ramp   0.2 mi   
11:56 AM   106.6   Take Ramp (LEFT) onto Cross County Pky   2.3 mi   Cross County Pky East
11:59 AM   108.9   Merge onto Hutchinson River Pky N   10.8 mi   
12:12 PM   119.8   Entering Connecticut      
12:12 PM   119.8   Road name changes to SR-15 [Merritt Pky]   14.3 mi   
12:27 PM   134.0   Take Local road(s) onto SR-15 [Merritt Pky]   39.6 mi   
1:17 PM   173.6   Take Local road(s) (RIGHT) onto SR-15 [Wilbur Cross Pky]   4.4 mi   
1:23 PM   178.0   At exit 64, turn RIGHT onto Ramp   0.2 mi   Wallingford
1:24 PM   178.2   Road name changes to River Rd   0.2 mi   
1:25 PM   178.5   Turn LEFT (North) onto SR-150 [Hall Ave]   0.3 mi   
1:26 PM   178.8   Bear RIGHT (North) onto SR-150 [Masonic Ave]   0.2 mi   
1:26 PM   179.0   Keep STRAIGHT onto SR-150 [N Turnpike Rd]   0.7 mi   
1:28 PM   179.7   Keep STRAIGHT onto SR-150 [Main St]   1.5 mi   
1:31 PM   181.2   Keep STRAIGHT onto SR-150 [SR-71]   0.1 mi   
1:32 PM   181.4   Keep STRAIGHT onto SR-150 [S Broad St]   0.4 mi   
1:33 PM   181.8   Bear LEFT (North) onto US-5 [S Broad St]   1.6 mi   
1:37 PM   183.4   Keep STRAIGHT onto US-5 [Broad St]   13.8 mi   
1:59 PM   197.2   Keep STRAIGHT onto SR-314 [Berlin Tpke]   0.7 mi   
2:01 PM   197.9   Keep STRAIGHT onto Berlin Tpke   0.4 mi   
2:03 PM   198.3   Road name changes to Maple Ave   0.1 mi   
2:03 PM   198.5   Keep LEFT onto Fairfield Ave   1.1 mi   
2:07 PM   199.6   Bear LEFT (North) onto Summit St   0.6 mi   
2:09 PM   200.2   Turn RIGHT (East) onto Vernon St   0.1 mi   
2:09 PM   200.3   Turn RIGHT (South) onto Local road(s)   0.2 mi   
2:09 PM   200.5   Arrive Trinity College [300 Summit St, Hartford, CT  06106, (860) 297-2000]      

SUMMARY
Driving distance:  200.5 miles
Trip duration:  5 hours, 9 minutes
Driving time:  5 hours, 9 minutes

[Mr. Ypsi]

Good Grief!

That may be the worst set of directions I have ever seen (and I don't even know the territory)!  (I didn't actually count them, but that must have been 60 turns to go 200 miles!)

Any word on WHY the NCAA selected this bizarre mapping program?  (I can't say for sure, since this is NOT a primary topic of conversation , but I don't THINK I know anyone who doesn't use Mapquest.)

[Mr. Ypsi]

Just ran the directions through Mapquest:

The bad news: it was 214 miles.

The good news: it had 16 turns, and took just under FOUR hours.

[Pat Coleman]

I use Yahoo Maps, not Mapquest, so put me on your list.

Remember -- the NCAA standard is shortest possible distance, which is not always the fastest.

I can think of one very important reason why they would choose a piece of offline software and not a Web site: The directions do not change. Imagine the confusion if School A runs Mapquest in October and gets one result, and then Mapquest changes its database on Dec. 15 and School B gets another result on Dec. 29 when the game is played.

[Mr. Ypsi]

But, Pat, is that really an advantage when sometimes the ROADS change! 

The purpose, presumably, of the 200-mile rule is to protect student-athletes from too much time away from school.  Since all of the mapping programs include a time calculation, wouldn't a (say) 5-hour rule make a whole lot more sense than a 200-mile rule.  I argued (months ago) that 200 miles is DIFFERENT in (say) Texas than in the northeast corridor, and was (probably correctly) shot down that SOME standard (however arbitrary) was necessary.  But since TIME, not mileage, is presumably the focus of the NCAA, I may have stumbled upon the solution. 

Using WHATEVER parameters (and programs) the NCAA designates, an in-region game is any that is within 5 hours of home.  I can't see any flaw in this change - anyone?

[formerbant10]

The only part of that route I know is starting on the Cross County....from there its not too bad.  I've tried 4 or 5 different ways getting up to Hartford and suprisingly taking the Berlin TPKE was one of the easier ways.  Any more news....only a month till practices start.  Fall pickup should be sorting out who's gonna get playing time by now.

[Pat Coleman]

Your five-hour standard was discussed and beaten down last year. Let's not go back there.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I'm routinely the slowest car on the road doing 90 on the Merritt Parkway towards Hartford.  A time limit only limits those who care about obeying the law.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Pat,

I recall a discussion of time vs. mileage, but do not recall any discussion of the MAPSITES' time estimates (and do not think I suggested a 5-hour zone, just that miles in Texas and miles in NE were not comparable).

Since the mapsites' time estimates are open to all and (accurate or not) give a measurable standard - AND since they presumably more directly address the D3 concern than does mileage - why would they not be a (better?) alternative?

The NCAA can still specify WHICH site (and we can still grumble!), but wouldn't TIME make more sense than MILES?  (I believe their whole rationale is 'taking time away from student-athletes'?)

[Mr. Ypsi]

And if their standard is 'shortest POSSIBLE route' (regardless of how silly it may be in terms of time), why not just take it to the logical conclusion and use a compass to draw a 200-mile 'as-the-crow-flies' circle around evey campus?

I think their standard is FAR more arbitrary than using a 'time standard' from whatever their chosen mapsite may be.

[formerbant10]

That would make a lot more sense... but when has the NCAA ever really made sense?

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Nice Ypsi, way to find the logical choice, which honestly never crossed my mind.  I guess I've become too involved in the workings of the illogical NCAA to ever think rationally again.  That 200 mile radius would make a lot of sense and make the NE region a lot easier to figure, seeing we have all those "can't get there from here" school in NH and Maine.