MBB: NESCAC

[Old Guy]

Hypothetical:

Steve Spurrier says that Alabama could beat some bad NFL teams. Lots of discussion ensues.

How about "PE" in basketball? How would Phillips Exeter fare in NESCAC hoop? Could they beat the bottom of the league (i.e. Colby last year?)

[WPI89]

I know the world has changed - and we have electricity now and all.  But in the mid 80's, I played freshman year on WPI's JV team and we played all the prep schools including PE.  We won and lost about equally.  Not sure how things have changed 25+ years later.

As close as I can get to answering that hypothetical.

[amh63]

Pre-Season picks for All-American are on the D3 website.....should start some chatter as the only "CAC" player is A. Toomey of Amherst.
Old Guy.... your challenge to compare prep school players versus a conf. team is most interesting.  I do not know enough about the PE talent and Colby's team to make even a guess.  The comment by the HFC of South Carolina drew many neg. reactions from ESPN's NFL analysts.
My question to you is why PE and not say Deerfield, etc. .....last year, I believe. a local prep school sent an entire team to the Ivy schools.  Div.1 talent throughout a team can often beat out a D3 team most of time....say 3 out of 5 games with the right coaches.  A college team may have 4-5 NFL high draft NFL players....but ant NFL team will have 43 NFL level players.   Same argument may apply to the prep school versus a D3 college... in reverse.

[7express]

Hypothetical:

Steve Spurrier says that Alabama could beat some bad NFL teams. Lots of discussion ensues.

How about "PE" in basketball? How would Phillips Exeter fare in NESCAC hoop? Could they beat the bottom of the league (i.e. Colby last year?)

I'm gonna open up a can of worms here probably but here goes:

Good high school teams (teams in Texas, FL, CA etc) could beat bad or even semi bad college teams because the gap from high school to college is marginal at best.  I'm just using Western Connecticut's roster as an example because it's the only roster I'm familiar with and taking out DaQuan Brooks who is no longer with us because he used up all his eligibility the other 12-15 or so players were only OK on their high school teams and I doubt anyone on this year's addition was being scouted above the division 2 level if even that high.  Add in that fact all of the players are from the state of CT which isn't a very good powerhouse state high school wise, though we have had a number of D-1 players over the last couple years: (David McClure at Duke, Craig Austrie at UConn, a couple people at Vermont, Damian James went to Marquette I believe), but aside from those select few, most of the other college players out of CT go to D-2 or D-3 schools.  Some of those high schools (Oak Hill in VA and St. Patrick's in NJ in particular) have like 3 or 4 McDonald's All Americans on the team, and there will probably end up being 5 or 6 on the team in a given year end up at high level-BCS school conferences at the division 1 level.
Even though I think we'll finish 3rd or 4th in the LEC this year, yes, I do believe we could get beaten by a St. Patrick's/St. Anthony's/Oak Hill kind of high school teeam.  Even putting those teams against someone like MIT/Amherst or Williams and the score is probably closer then most of you would think.

[nescac1]

The top-tier New England prep schools (the ones who routinely send multiple guys to high-level D-1 schools) would, of course, crush any NESCAC squad.  I don't, however, think Exeter would.  Exeter and NMH and others a that level routinely play the Williams (and I assume other) J.V. teams.  I get the sense that those games are usually fairly competitive.  The Williams J.V. team, on the other hand, would not be competitive with a lower-tier NESCAC team, in almost any year.  Hence, I think any NESCAC team would handle these teams with ease.  21 and 22 year olds, even if marginally less talented, that have been playing college ball for 2-3 years just have such a huge advantage over 17-18 year olds. 

Regarding the all-Americans, congrats to Toomey, if he stays healthy I think he will live up to that billing.  I do think at least one, possibly more, NESCAC players will earn strong consideration as well.  The NESCAC is very guard-rich this year, and Nate Robertson, Joey Kizell, and Sha Brown are, in my view, all very experienced all-American level talents who, depending on health and team success, could be recognized.  Willy Workman on Amherst and Michael Mayer on Williams are also guys who will earn consideration, depending, again, on staying healthy and on team success level.  I don't think anyone else in the confernece is likely to be considered, barring some radical unexpected improvement. 

[Panthernation]

Midd's 2012-13 roster is now up on the athletics website: http://www.middlebury.edu/athletics/sports/mensbasketball/roster

Notable that they gave Sharry's number (35) to one of the freshmen, Nidenberg.

Re: Pre-season All-American teams- not that it matters to either of them, but if Toomey was first team, don't see how Kizel doesn't make any of the five teams. Here are their stat lines from last year:

Toomey: 42.9 FG%, 34.2 3PT%, 17.9 PPG, 4.8 APG, 1.8 SPG

Kizel: 53.7 FG%, 50.6 3PT%, 14.0 PPG, 3.9 APG, 0.7 SPG

The D3Hoops guys seem to be putting a lot of emphasis on bulk numbers, rather than efficiency.

This is a carry-over from their somehow not selecting Kizel to any of the All-Region teams last year.

[walzy31]

Here's a little tidbit for the Williams folks that would be fun to see...

The NCAA requires a minimum of 5 years to include coaches in their records, Coach Maker is heading into his 5th year which will make him eligible after this season.  Here's a link to the full list (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2012/coaches.pdf)  According to the Williams site, Maker is 93-22 in his 4 years putting him at an .809 winning %. 

The current active winningest coaches in the NCAA are...
DI:  Roy Williams  .798
DII: Jim Crutchfield  .814
DIII: Bob Smelling  .815

Williams has 24 games on the schedule this year and with the assumption they are going to play a minimum of 25 games, if the Ephs were to win at least 22 games Maker would enter the list with a record of 115-25 or .821.   

It would be more fun for the rest of the league to not see him win his 100th game this season. Can I take the Under on the Eph season win total 21.5?

[walzy31]

Maximilano?  He's got the name, so if he has the game, he's a lock for all-crazy!

Officially on the Crazy-Team committee's radar.

[walzy31]

Midd's 2012-13 roster is now up on the athletics website: http://www.middlebury.edu/athletics/sports/mensbasketball/roster

Notable that they gave Sharry's number (35) to one of the freshmen, Nidenberg.

Re: Pre-season All-American teams- not that it matters to either of them, but if Toomey was first team, don't see how Kizel doesn't make any of the five teams. Here are their stat lines from last year:

Toomey: 42.9 FG%, 34.2 3PT%, 17.9 PPG, 4.8 APG, 1.8 SPG

Kizel: 53.7 FG%, 50.6 3PT%, 14.0 PPG, 3.9 APG, 0.7 SPG

The D3Hoops guys seem to be putting a lot of emphasis on bulk numbers, rather than efficiency.

This is a carry-over from their somehow not selecting Kizel to any of the All-Region teams last year.

Kizel is great (you could have included that the duo was #1 and #2 in the conference in FT% and that their blocks and boards are almost identical), but let us not forget he had the conference POTY to play with. Sharry was the Middlebury team last season and every defense had to focus on stopping him first. Toomey received comparable attention from all of Amherst's opponents and he still put up numbers without having an 18.8pts/10.3reb defensive game plan distraction on his team.

nescac1's assessment of AA-worthy talent in the conference is accurate. You named six guys and I would be surprised if all six don't receive All-NESCAC 1st or 2nd team at season's end.

[walzy31]

Hypothetical:

Steve Spurrier says that Alabama could beat some bad NFL teams. Lots of discussion ensues.

How about "PE" in basketball? How would Phillips Exeter fare in NESCAC hoop? Could they beat the bottom of the league (i.e. Colby last year?)

Great response by Chad Millman to the Alabama / NFL conversation found here:
http://insider.espn.go.com/insider/blog/_/name/millman_chad/id/8583416/nfl-week-9-line-moves-millman-rankings

[walzy31]

Preseason Prop Bet

Which team receives the #3 seed in the 2013 NESCAC tournament?

+180 Amherst
+180 Middlebury
-170 Wesleyan
+125 Tufts
+165 Williams
+500 Bates
+550 Bowdoin
+700 Hamilton
+1000 Trinity
+2500 Colby
+5000 Conn College

[nescac1]

Yeah, I like Kizell a lot, very tough and efficient player, makes the most out of his talent for sure, but Sha Brown to me is a bigger omission on the pre-season all-American teams.  He is the guy who makes Wesleyan go and is his team's primary scorer, ball-handler, and creator.  The most dynamic individual talent in the league along with Toomey.

Speaking of which, Wesleyan has its pre-season roster and preview posted: http://www.wesleyan.edu/athletics/news/2012/11/mbbpreview110712.html

It's now or never for Wesleyan this year, led by Brown, Callaghan, and Beresford, they have, easily, the best group of seniors in NESCAC, and it's time for them to make some post-season noise, because the underclassmen are mainly role players.  I would not be surprised to see them win the league, although they still are a bit short up front with no real shot-blocker. 

Tufts, another contender, has its roster posted.  Looks like a very impressive frosh group at Tufts, led by Haldanya and a huge group of big guys.  After bringing in a stellar back-court last year, the Jumbos should be stacked for awhile, very fast turnaround after a down stretch there. 

http://www.gotuftsjumbos.com/sports/mbkb/2012-13/roster

Bates also has its roster posted:

http://www.bates.edu/m-basketball/roster/2012-13/

And Conn College (which has its periodic large influx of frosh, with nine) also has a preview posted:

http://camelathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2012-13/releases/20121101ci4y2r

I think this will be the most competitive and balanced NESCAC season at the top in some time.  I don't see a huge amount of difference in terms of talent between Amherst, Williams, Midd, Tufts and Wesleyan, and I think all five could legitimately contend. Amherst, Williams and Wesleyan all have very strong talent at the top of the roster with two all-NESCAC caliber guys each, but Midd and Tufts are both very deep and balanced.   I also think all five will earn a lot of easy victories vs. most of the rest of the conference.

Speaking of all-NESCAC, my early thoughts on the top contenders:

1st five: Toomey, Brown, Kizell, Mayer, Workman
2nd five: Robertson, Vadas, Ferris, Callaghan, N. Thompson

Other contenders: Taylor Epley, Peter Kaasila, Scott Anderson, Eric Dean

DPOY: Thompson
ROY: Haldanya or Conor Greene from Amherst
POY: Toomey

[NEhoops]

Here is another list of players with a chance to make all-league

Amherst: A. Toomey; W. Workman

Bates: M. Brust

Bowdoin:

Colby:

Conn College: M. Vadas

Hamilton: G. Newton

Middlebury: J. Kizel; J. Wolfin

Trinity: M. DiStasio

Tufts: S. Anderson; B. Ferris

Wesleyan: S. Brown; M. Callaghan

Williams: M. Mayer; N. Robertson

[Old Guy]

The Midd player we all overlook (me included) is Peter Lynch. Yes, he is a somewhat undersized 5 (6'6", in the program) and has been overshadowed by Locke and Sharry, but he is extremely determined and effective and valuable. He led the league last year in FG% at 64% (better than Sharry), and averaged ten points and 5.5 rebounds in 21 minutes per game. He's a good foul shooter (76%). He has McHale-like moves on the block. He has changed his body in two years, from bulky to lean and mean, understanding that he must be able to run the floor with these gazelles in the frontcourt (Jensen, Bulluck, Sinnickson). He has no ego: never takes a bad shot. He was the MVP of the early season tourney last year when Sharry was out. He is a Co-Captain this year.

Good player, rarely gets a mention.

[nescac1]

Agreed with Old Guy that Lynch is a tough inside player.  His game is not necessarily pretty, but he gave Williams a lot of trouble last year ... he is gritty, efficient, and is a load down there.  McHale-like, however, may be a BIT of an exaggeration . 

Former Bantam Varum Ram (one of about half of last year's Trinity roster no longer with the program, still curious what is going on, if it's an issue with the coach, or just a lot of guys leaving for various different reasons) is now a walk on at the University of Maryland:

http://www.umterps.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/ram_varun00.html

I can't recall a former NESCAC player ever transferring up to an ACC school before!