MBB: NESCAC

[old_hooper]

More Bobby Knight stories.
Todd Johnson '86 asks Abe, "What's the real story on Bobby Knight turning down the head coaching job at Wisconsin many years ago? Urban legend has it that Knight interviewed for the job, but when he noticed a member of the interviewing committee dozing off, he figured this wasn't the place for him."

Answer: The University of Wisconsin had a chance to land Bobby Knight as basketball coach in the 1960s. Knight interviewed in 1968 after John Erickson resigned to become general manager of the Milwaukee Bucks.

The real story is that Knight applied for the job and was one of seven candidates interviewed. After the post was offered to him while he was still in Madison, he requested that nothing be announced until he could return to West Point, where he was coaching at the time, to inform his superiors. Before he had that opportunity, someone leaked the news to the media. Within 48 hours, Knight called back and declined the offer.

Knight remained at Army for three more seasons until he went to Indiana. The same day that Knight turned down the Wisconsin offer, John Powless accepted it. He had been an assistant for five years under Erickson, as well as Wisconsin's tennis coach. Powless held the Wisconsin job for eight years. In addition to Powless, Bill Cofield, Steve Yoder, Stu Jackson, Stan Van Gundy and Dick Bennett all coached the Badgers during Knight's time at Indiana.

[amh63]

Interesting downtime on this board....before more "CAC" head to head games this weekend.  Lefty D. stories, Moses M. stories and now Bobby K. stories. Before I add some true but maybe somewhat "cloudy rememberance " stories to this line of post....I need to respond to Frank U.
Thanks for making me older than I am Frank U.  What "bad experiences" did you have to be so down on Durham.  Are you an UNC fan?
I believe Moses Malone...who has a son playing somewhere in Div.1.....was the first successful high school player to jump to the NBA and have a full professional career.  I actually saw him play in a Wash. D.C. Summer League game. with his fellow Terps recruits...in my neighborhood.  They may have been playing against a team of UMD graduates that included Tom McMillian's  older brother Jay...from Wilke's Barre Pa.
Now to Bobby Knight....as all here knows on this board...one of Bobby's player at West Point was Coach K, now the Hall of Fame coach at Duke.  I was attending a short course at Duke's business school one Summer.  One of my "classmates" at the time was an Army senior officer who knew both Coach Knight and Coach K.while at West Point. During a break in the day's schedule, he and I went marching off to find Coach K....me like a wide-eyed kid...could not miss this opportunity.  Did meet Coach K...and several of his players.

[frank uible]

Old Guy: If one is a DI quality player, is truly passionate about his sport and yet requires a small LAC, then in my judgment Davidson is the place, despite possible reservations about athletes smoothly integrating with the campus as a whole.

[lumbercat]

Amh63-
It was widely known that Green acheived many honors at the HS level and was a top recruit for the Purple....at the end of the day despite Gatorade, All Scholastic, ESPN or Coca Cola honors he was not rated among the very top of incoming NESCAC recruits. While these ratings are based on camps, coaches input etc this information should not be viewed as totally reliable. However at the D3 level it tends to be fairly credible for the most part but we always need to be aware of the fact that over/underachievment occurs at all levels especially during and after the transition from HS/Prep to College.
The kid is a fine player and hope he performs well for the Jeffs.

[jayhawk]

My understanding is that Connor Green was rated one of the top recruits in NEPSAC. This information comes from rating services and coaches. Agree that accomplishments in high school may not translate into doing well at college level.

[frank uible]

Wouldn't it be simpler (and more adult) for us to refrain from opining and speculating about, and otherwise discussing, incoming recruits and to wait patiently and silently until we can actually witness their performances in college. Certainly the recruits would not be disadvantaged by such a process, but then we wouldn't have anything to do while waiting for our bowels to move in the morning.

[amh63]

Was going to post earlier after breakfast but Frank's latest post caused me to lose my appetite.
Anyway, finished my morning chores and here are several comments ...hopefully to further interesting discussions.
First, our newest poster..."ephprof"....who provided a great post on Bobby Knight and Davidson.....may be the President of Williams!
The Prez of Williams has taken some teaching duties since Williams has to improve their instructions in Physics.  The Prez also was raised in North Carolina and spent much time in Chapel Hill....a fan of the UNC vs Duke BB battles.  Maybe it was Frank U. who gave ephprof a Karma point.
Jayhawk....another thanks for the video linkage for Amherst's latest recruit...Jacob Nabatoff.  Watched the video and was impressed.
Jacob runs and moves well and will battle for rebounds in spite being only 190 pounds at 6'8".  He also seems to have been well coached. He does not bring his arms down after winning an offensive rebound...but quickly puts up a shot.  He makes accurate and quick layups near the basket...even when uncontested....no flashy dunks.  He is listed to have a 6'11" wingspan so his height at this time seems right.  If he comes close to the Amherst player from Ann Arbor Pioneer HS in Mich. mentioned earlier.....Fletcher Walters '07... during his time at Amherst, Coach Hixon will have a big smile.
Saw a bit of another video of Nabatoff being a running QB for the HS football team.  Will save my comments/projections for the Fall on the football board.
Last night, I watched a little of the WPI versus Coast Guard game in New London on line.  It was such a blowout when I got on that WPI had their FY center playing.  WPI's newest center is 7'3"...yes, that is correct. He has a mop of hair and can block shots and take up space under the basket.....but doesn't shoot well..even a layup near the basket.  My take is that he has little prior BB coaching.
Why WPI?  The WPI team is presently undefeated, and the highest ranked New England team outside of Middlebury.  They should win their conference and win a host site in post season play.  Several years ago, Amherst had to go through WPI in Worchester to reach the quarter finals of the NCAA in Williamstown.  Just looking ahead a little.

[Bucket]

Wouldn't it be simpler (and more adult) for us to refrain from opining and speculating about, and otherwise discussing, incoming recruits and to wait patiently and silently until we can actually witness their performances in college.

Couldn't agree more strongly with this sentiment.

I will offer Middlebury's Nolan Thompson as Exhibit A in this argument. Pretty important part of this Panther team the past four years, yes? A starter since his first game freshman year, defensive stalwart, on the cusp of scoring his 1,000th point. Nolan was not on anyone's radar screen as an incoming recruit. That's because he wasn't an incoming recruit. No one knew who he was until he walked into Jeff Brown's office when he arrived on campus in the fall and asked about trying out for the basketball team.

 

[lumbercat]

Well said Frank but always interesting to see how the incoming recruits perform at a higher level.

[jayhawk]

Of course there is a record of recruits who don't have been big billing but do shine during their career in NESCAC.  No one should argue that. Plus as I have said before it counts what you do on the court. Willie Workman, David Kalema and I believe Mayer from Williams may not have had the high school career with lots of press before them came in. That is one of the beauties of D3 ball in particular. Nolan Thompson may not have been known to certain people but he was honorable mention all state in Ohio. The only thing that was said was Connor Green was expected to be one of the better frosh in the league in terms of preseason expectations.

So I don't see what the big discussion is about.

Also so far Connor Green has made some nice contributions -- time will tell.

[madzillagd]

I've only been on this board for a year but I've yet to see anything malicious or excessively negative posted about current or incoming players.  (Now Amherst soccer coaches that's a different story...  )  I think for the most part everyone is good-natured and treats the players with respect.  They understand that this is D3 basketball and that stands for something.  I don't think anybody here wants any part of what goes on around athletics at the D1 level and I'm sure Pat and the other admins on the site would not stand for any type of behavior that might demean nor present players in a negative manner.  Any discussion of an incoming player is done with knowledge that - A) They may not even come to that school, B) they may come to the school and not play the sport, and C) past performance does not guarantee future success. 

With that being said, I will continue to discuss incoming recruits on occasion and will continue to do so with respect for those players and in full knowledge of the items I mentioned above.  This is a discussion board and it seems like more time is spent telling people what not to discuss than people having actual discussions. 

[Bucket]

Hope my post wasn't misconstrued...I don't see any harm in discussing the merits of incoming recruits. I just think it's silly at this level. DIII players are late bloomers, hidden gems, big fish from small ponds who may or may not be able to compete at the collegiate level.

My guess is that far more DIII players are of the Workman, Thompson, Sharry, Mayer variety--little known until they arrive and show what they can do. Therefore, it seems a waste of time to dissect the relative merits of those who have made a splash--for whatever reason--before they step foot on campus. Their relative impact on their respective programs is far less than the attention granted them during this time.

That said, this is a discussion board, so folks should be free to discuss what they want.

[madzillagd]

Bucket,

It is a waste of time, but so is just about everything else on a discussion board.    I'm just saying as long as folks keep it respectful I don't have any problem if they want to speculate on player performance, future matchups etc.  It's all in good fun.  If some folks don't want to participate or think it's a waste of time I totally get that, but they don't need to dissuade others from doing so. 

[amh63]

Oops....forgot to mention in my earlier post.  Today's WSJ has a timely discussion on Bobby Knight and his undefeated season with Indiana 37 years ago!  Was it that long ago.  In Div.1 there are only 4 undefeated teams to date and it is not halfway through the season.  Duke the No.1 ranked team is one of the four.  The WSJ must be following this board's topics
Really guys.....this is a place to talk primarily about D3 basketball.  During a lull in games to discuss, new recruits seems appropriate, IMO.  Connor Green is a FY player that was pointed out and he is becoming a fine contributing player for Amherst....a team that does not often see FY players getting much floor time.  Gee who was the last FY player to make an impact at Amherst.  Could it be Aaron Toomey?....The "CAC" ROY.   
On the other side of the coin so to speak....can we add two of Williams graduated All-Americans to the list of not publicized recruits....Wang and that other player...from NYC with a name starting with a letter W...like in Williams.   Discussions of new players and "unknown" players that became stars at all levels of MBB are to me at least fun/interesting topics.
We on this board have a hard time agreeing on what happened in a conference game at times....more often than not.
In D3 hoops ranked teams....there are only six undefeated teams....so far.  In New England there only two remaining....Midd. and WPI.
I have seen elsewhere, posts that put down Midd. based on their close recent wins.  Midd. is undefeated!  IMO, more credit should be given them as an example.   So what are we discussing....whether or not to discuss now new recruits.  Geez...give me a break posters.

[grabtherim]

Wouldn't it be simpler (and more adult) for us to refrain from opining and speculating about, and otherwise discussing, incoming recruits and to wait patiently and silently until we can actually witness their performances in college. Certainly the recruits would not be disadvantaged by such a process, but then we wouldn't have anything to do while waiting for our bowels to move in the morning.

Frank it would be "simpler and more adult" for you not to tell people on a discussion board what to discuss, and I could care less what you do "while waiting for your bowels to move in the morning".  Do you try to sound like the Kingsfield character from Paper Chase on purpose or are you really as pompous as he was?  Feel free to throw some big words and obtuse thoughts out there in response which apparently impresses you to no end, but no one else.  Regarding incoming kids to the NESCAC, Thompson is a classic example of a kid who coaches should have been fighting over, but somehow fell through the cracks.