MBB: NESCAC

[madzillagd]

On a more serious note....I also have a question on why Williams employs the zone defense so much.  Saw Williams use it against Hamilton and it surprised me.  When the flu/illness reports of the Williams' players appeared, I figured the zone was used to conserve energy of recovering players and maybe the "short" bench.  Thinking back, I remember that the Cardinals of Wesleyan used a bit of zone against Amherst.  Is it because of match-up problems?  Other than Nescac1, there has been few comments of match-up situations  between teams to date.  The season is half over and we shoud know the players of the teams better???...backup a bit here.  One poster did comment/opin on how Amherst matchs-up well across the conference.
"Balls" thrown into the court......any takers/players?

I'm guessing you are on the right track that it is a way to rest players.  The zone has been effective in spurts, but like Nescac1 said I think overall man tends to be consistently effective versus the zone being occasionally effective.  It's no secret that Coach Maker is relying heavily on his starters this year.  Looking at the average minutes, all five starters for Williams play 27+ minutes a game.  Compare that to 3 starters for Midd at that level, 2 starters for Amherst at that level, or even 0 players for Tufts at that level.  I do not believe it is because of matchup problems at all.  As mentioned, Williams does very well when they do play man to man typically, they just have to expend more energy doing it.  Keep in mind, Williams is #2 in the nation in defensive fg % so obviously they are doing something right.  Compare that to Midd, which I've gleaned from comments on this board prides itself on their tough defense is currently ranked at #151 in the same category.  I think what stands out though when watching Williams play is that when they are in the zone, teams tend to get open looks and offensive rebounds so it often appears very ineffective at times. 

I think one of the other questions out there about the zone is - why now?  My answer to that is simple, they're tall.  Of the players getting the minutes, the shortest of the bunch is Robertson @ 6'3 and Klemm @ 6'3. Others in the rotation are: 6'4, 6'5, 6'5, 6'6, 6'6, 6'7 & 6'9.  Shooting over a zone with that type of height may not be that difficult for Amherst that has similar size, but playing against a team like Wes that has 3 guys in the rotation that are < 6'0 I think that makes a difference.  5'10 Beresford for example scored 45 pts in the first two Wes games, then played against the Williams zone and went 1-10 scoring 2 points.

[Old Guy]

Interesting that Walzy has Midd and three points. Both Middlebury and Williams own victories against Bates, Tufts, and Wesleyan - Middlebury by a total of five points, Williams by a total 45 points. The game is in the Williams' gym. School is in session. Midd beat Williams twice last year and won the NESCAC tourney the year before with a victory over the Ephs in their gym. Think they'll have any incentives in this game?

I hope Walzy's right. It would be a huge win for the Panthers.

[amh63]

Madz...thanks for your thoughts...perceptive data analyses.

Old Guy......Walzy likes the way you post....and wants to lower your stress level.

Talking about spreads and bets......the D3 administrators on the multi-region board has been talking about the impact on sports in the post season period due to the recent state of New Jersey allowing betting on pro and college games.  Seems there will be no hosting of any NCAA games in the post-season in New Jersey and other states that allow betting on college sports.  Another such state is Delaware.
Guess the gambling in Indian Nation sites in CT. and NY. are not affective..being they are different nations.  Can one see what would happen if such betting laws are allowed in the North East.....in Mass.  I believe RI is also an impacted state.  Has RIC, a strong post season player ever hosted games?

Last random comment....Seems that two WBB teams out in the wild West had a 115-105 game last night.  "Grinnell Style" used?

[Pat Coleman]

Delaware does not allow betting on college games, I believe. They went down that road a couple of years ago but bowed to the NCAA's pressure.

La Verne runs the Loyola Marymount style instead of Grinnell, but yes, it was a run-and-gun game. La Verne has been doing that since sometime in December, and would have done so earlier but two of their three point guards were out. (I believe one was hurt and the other playing volleyball.)

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

To the best of my knowledge, the only five states now that have sports betting legislation is Nevada, Oregon, Montana, Delaware and now New Jersey. The only two states the NCAA does not allow post-season games/tournament events are Nevada and New Jersey because they are the only ones that implemented single-game betting on college games.

Nevada, Oregon, Montana, and Delaware already legalized sports betting before a federal law prohibited it in 1992. New Jersey is now being sued by the NCAA, the major professional sports, and the Justice Department for their new law.

[walzy31]

All facts and good information being added by Pat, Dave, and even Amh63. It's a ridiculous situation where the few hundred positives that would be had if sports betting were legal nationwide (safer for the gambler not dealing with bookies, generates taxes for winners and bookmakers, generates more interest in the sports themselves ie fantasy sports, increases revenue for casino companies, etc etc etc) are being pushed back on by the NCAA and NFL for hypocritical reasons (march madness and fantasy football are thriving and what is buying a sports team other than betting on that franchise?).

As someone vehemently on one extreme of the spectrum, my witty response is: Let the NCAA disallow postseason hosting privileges in states that allow sports betting. In 3-4 years, all postseason play for all sports can take place in Utah.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Walzy - have you clarified with a compliance officer that your 'bookie' operation doesn't violate NCAA sports betting rules?!

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Remember... according to 1992 federal law... sports betting especially on individual games is not allowed. The previous four states are exempted because they already had laws on the book, though New Jersey is fighting that as unconstitutional.

This is bigger than an NCAA thing, but they have never allowed events to be hosting in states where individual game betting takes place... and if you think about it further, the big four major pro sports don't have teams in Nevada, either. What happens to New Jersey's NFL hosting of teams? Who knows .

[amh63]

Wow....Thanks guys from on High.  Are there any lawyers that post on this board.  TheHerst2&4, where are you when you are needed?  Tell your father's Law Firm that you need a break.  See a new career path for you....Sports related law outside of being a Sports Agent.
Seriously, it seems that this year Div3 sports will be impacted in the Spring....that Indian stick ball game for one.
Must remain on topic and learn brevity!   Giving the unusual Div.1 BB upsets of late....and the slew of critical conference games in Div1 that have been LOW scoring and going down to the last minute.....I now ask posters on this board other than the ones that have their bets down....where will the most surprising upset on Sat. be?   I'm thinking Bates over Tufts.  Bates' gym is like Duke's Cameron...tough to play at....as I have been told. 

[NEhoops]

I don't love the fact that Williams plays zone either. Many have already mentioned some of the reasons why they're going with it. They're not very deep and it at times conserves energy, also they are tall/long and might not be the best group of on ball defenders. For William's when they are going good (hitting 3's, getting to FT line) they don't need to create offense from their defense like a lot of teams do. Also, I know Maker puts a majority of his practice time into the offense. When a team runs a zone a lot less time is put into their game by game defensive preparations.

I don't think anyone expected Colby to be competing for a top spot in the conference, so to ask what is wrong with them is an unclear question. When coaches retire it usually takes a few seasons for the new coach to get the team where he wants them to be (see Trinity), especially in D3. Colby struggled toward the end of Whitmore's time there and haven't been able to bring in as much talent the last few years. The freshmen class is strong, but you cant win in this league without productive seniors. I think they are moving in the right direction, but it not going to happen overnight.     

[Pat Coleman]

Wow....Thanks guys from on High.  Are there any lawyers that post on this board.  TheHerst2&4, where are you when you are needed?  Tell your father's Law Firm that you need a break.  See a new career path for you....Sports related law outside of being a Sports Agent.
Seriously, it seems that this year Div3 sports will be impacted in the Spring....that Indian stick ball game for one.

Ramapo would be in a position to host games in MBB this year, Montclair in WBB, and games were moved out of the state in the women's soccer tournament as well. It's not just the spring.

[amh63]

Pat C....Thanks for the info, clarifications... and for you and members of D3 hoops to bring up such topics and commentary that may/can/have impact on D3 sports.  As you can read here on this board, we are willing....at least some of us....to talk on a wide range of topics that only brush the MBB area in general and the NESCAC in particular.
NEHoops....Your response to my remark is most helpful.   Part of the reason for the remark...a "throw-out" comment is to find out what supporters of Colby see how Colby BB is trending.  There are few steady or easily identified posters of Colby on this board.  There has been three "new/newer" coaching changes...oops four....in the CAC.  If I'm correct...at Conn., at Wes., at Trinity and most recently at Hamilton.  Some posters here have been puzzled why the teams of those schools have not improved over the past few years.  I admit, I have been wondering why Trinity and even Conn have not returned to their former glory years.  The new coaches all seem to be experienced and talented....yet the roster turnovers at Trinity are a puzzle....as an example.  I guess my problem....nosy me....wishes to know more and the present posters cannot always provide the info.   At Amherst, the WBB program was never a strong one in the past.  The present coach was brought in 6 years ago and the WBB team has gone to the Final 4 the past 4 years and won the National Championship two years ago.   A similiar story line happened earlier for the women's Hockey program.  At Bowdoin, the women's hockey program is way up since bringing in a new coach several years ago.  I hope for the success of all the newer coaches since I would like to see a stronger more competative NESCAC...in spite of my seemingly "dislike" of Williams' successes.
Enough said for now.....going to check out the Rochester UAA game.

[WPI89]

Naive question - are there actual betting lines on d3 games?  I know the NCAA is one organization and does not (can not?) distinguish but if Ramapo was to host Stevens or whoever - would there actually be a betting line on that game?

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I have never seen a betting line on a D3 game... but that is besides the point. The NCAA isn't going to say we aren't going to host in D1 and will allow D3... it is an across the board thing for the entire state. Furthermore, it isn't like the NCAA and even member schools in New Jersey weren't warning of these consequences.

[Pat Coleman]

I have heard of betting lines on the Stagg Bowl but I'm not really paying attention to sportsbooks at that time.