MBB: NESCAC

[middhoops]

Watching Shasha Brown today was almost sad, even for Panther fans.  He's had a great four years at Wesleyan, lit up almost every team in the league a few times; but today, Nolan Thompson allowed him nothing.  Brown stood five feet beyond the 3 line dribble, sizing Thompson up for an opportunity.  None presented itself and the Wesleyan offense stagnated.
Glen Thomas was a force.  He was too strong for the Panthers on offense and forced Peter Lynch outside for the first time all season on D. 
Joey Kizel yet again rose to the occasion.  Fewer floor burns than Tuesday night, however.

Amherst looks like a huge fave at home next weekend.

When considering the POY, I go with the most unstoppable player.  Michael Mayer.   No rhyme intended.

[Panthernation]

Don't understand what you're saying this for. Is this a response to the point that a good defender changes how the whole team's defense is played? Never said he was a "great team defender," which you seem to be attributing here... said he has a huge impact on the whole team's defense. It was a response to the claim that one defender can't alter the game that much. Here, an elucidation, if this concept is unclear:

When one player, the best player (usually), on a team is shut down both on and off the ball, it has a ripple effect on the entire offense because it breaks up the tempo, fluidity, and motion that the team relies on to get its looks. Whether the glue defense means a dribble-penetrator can't drive to the hoop and draw help and dish outside, or stops passes from going to a player who can usually get open with motion on the perimeter, thus forcing the offense to reset instead of going through its sets, the effects are constant and significant. In fact, this point is no more than the logical implication of the point to which it was a response. One great offensive player changes the whole game, creates shots, makes things happen, alters game plans, and generally facilitates positive externalities. Therefore, shutting down a great player has numerous and significant carry-over effects on the team.

And thus the statement, "a good defensive player has a huge impact on the team's defense, and on every other player on the court," is true for a glue defender. It was said with full knowledge of Nolan's style of play. So the argument misses the point.

you're right that shutting down a team's best player can disrupt flow, etc. in ways that help a team's defense.

But it's also true that not helping away from your man and not rebounding as much as another player otherwise might can hurt a team's defense. Is that such a hard point to grasp?

I'm done with this argument. Agree to disagree on whether Thompson should beat Toomey for poy. For the record, I think Thompson is a phenomenal player.

No, it's not such a hard point to grasp at all, but never said it wasn't true, so that's why it missed the point. Hence the confusion about your statement, "it's nonsense to say that NT is a great team defender just b/c he's a great one on one defender." Sure, nonsense or not, nobody ever said it.

[grabtherim]

Not a stats guy as much as the rest who chime in here.  IMO, Thompson is DPOY without any doubt al all.  For POY there are several qualifed candidates.  I see all of your points on each, but in such a tight race, I would pick a player from the team who won the league, ie Toomey or Workman.  The caveat is if voting takes place after next weekend and one of the other candidates helps lead his team to a playoff win on Amherst's floor.  Quite frankly, I really dont care that much.  It's the GAMES I look forward to.

A few takeaways from the season thus far and yesterday.  First and most perplexing, what is up with Wesleyan?  With the talent they had this season, their inconsistent play has to be a major head scratcher to their fans.  Second, will the ME schools begin to make headway in the league in the next few seasons?  Real talent seems to be flowing north.  It says here that you will see one or more upsets out of ME next year.  Finally, can Tufts crack the Big 3 domination next week? IMO, not this year, but things are looking up for the Jumbos.  They should be a force next year. My guess on Walzys point spreads for next weekend with no over unders.  Amherst 7 over Tufts, and Williams/Midd at pick em. Finally, Walzy do you now dislike Midd so much after some of us dared to call Saint Hixon's behavior into question that you as an Amherst man will root for Williams on Amherst's floor?  I guess that is the definition of lose/lose.     

[nescac1]

It's interesting, for all the talk of the 2008 Eph squad, they sort of parallel this year's Wes team.  I imagine that something was going on behind the scenes to account for this year's regression by Wesleyan.  I agree that the 2007 Eph run was one of the most fun to watch, they were just on fire in both games in Lefrak, and beating a (frankly) far more talented, future-titlist Amherst team on its home floor to win NESCAC was the only bright spot in a tough three year stretch for the Ephs.  I think everyone thought (much like folks were high on Wesleyan after last year's strong run by the Cards) that the 2008 Eph squad would be a stellar team ... Rose, Shalvoy, Geoghegan, Rubin, Snyder, Schultz, Whittington as a frosh (although he got hurt early in the year and missed most of the season), it seemed like they were loaded.  Unfortunately, it did not go as anticipated.  After winning the first 12 the team kind of fell apart down the stretch, and really underachieved towards the end of the year.  In fact, that is the only Eph team I can think of in recent memory that really underachieved based on the talent and experience on the roster (last year I think the team may have actually overachieved considering the lack of remotely healthy core players).  Coach Paulsen obviously did a tremendous job during his short tenure, including a national title and one shot away from a second, but at that point the team really needed a change for certain guys to get on track, and Coach Maker came in and was a breath of fresh air. 

Unfortunately for Wesleyan, the future is not as bright.  Losing three 1000 point scorers without any all-NESCAC caliber guys on the current roster to step up, while teams like Bowdoin, Colby, Conn College, Trinity, Hamilton are all bringing back most or all of their key guys, hard to see Wesleyan regaining momentum the way the Ephs did following the 2008 season; this may be the last time we see the Cards even make the NESCAC tourney for awhile.  Although maybe some guys who have been forced to take a back seat will emerge ... massive Ewing Theory at play? 

It will be interesting to see if Tufts can hang with Amherst.  Seemed like the Jumbos just could not defend the Jeffs last time around.  Tufts is a young and very talented team, but unsurprisingly for such a young team, their defense is inconsistent.  Speaking of Tufts, anyone know what happened to C.J. Moss?  He has not played since the Midd game.  Interestingly, his absence has coincided with Tufts' string of strong play, as they've only lost the game at Amherst since Moss was (presumably) injured.  The Jumbos have also played for the last month without Tommy Folliard, who was also a key rotation guy the last few years, a big guy who can shoot.  Where have the Tufts posters from back in the day all gone?  Maybe some will emerge next year with Tufts anticipated to contend ... with the core of current or future all-NESCAC caliber players Ferris, Haladyna, Palleschi, and strong supporting players Moss, Folliard, Firepong, and Cohen all returning, that is a very strong top seven for next year, even before taking into account development of the young big guys currently on the roster plus the big guy arriving next year. 

[Old Guy]

Unfortunately for Wesleyan, the future is not as bright.  Losing three 1000 point scorers without any all-NESCAC caliber guys on the current roster to step up, while teams like Bowdoin, Colby, Conn College, Trinity, Hamilton are all bringing back most or all of their key guys, NESCAC1

Season's far from over (we hope) but Middlebury will have a very different look next year. We're losing a lot, especially in the leadership/character area. Kizel/Jensen/Bulluck/Sinnickson lead a talented returning group - we love our four frosh, sophs Churchill and Brierly can play, but we have leaned on Thompson, Wolfin and Lynch and they have responded with great leadership. Leadership and character win games, especially on the road. Our teams have been good and tough-minded.

We've got a good thing going here at Middlebury. Here are the reported attendance figures for yesterday's game (probably pretty accurate because of ticket sales): 1050 (Midd), 851, 672, 500. Wish we could have knocked off the Jeffs last Tuesday, and won the coin flip - it would have been quite a scene here.

[frank uible]

Hope College and Calvin College (both in the MIAA and each with undergraduate enrollment figures in the 3000 range) and the College of Wooster (with an undergraduate enrollment of less than 2000) are the gold standard in attendance for d3 men's basketball with habitual per game home numbers well in excess of 2000 for each season.

[walzy31]

Thompson eats more pancakes than Toomey but Toomey can climb higher snow mountains.

[walzy31]

Finally, Walzy do you now dislike Midd so much after some of us dared to call Saint Hixon's behavior into question that you as an Amherst man will root for Williams on Amherst's floor?  I guess that is the definition of lose/lose.   

Yes, I need to channel the inner-rage I felt for the 24 hour following the 3OT game and will be rooting against Middlebury in hoops.

It is not hard to do in this circumstance because:
A) Amherst matches up better with Williams
B) It would give Amherst the chance to end all that "undefeated in NESCAC title games and NCAA play" hype.
C) I hope we play Williams two more times...they can't stop us this year.
D) Any news on if Duncan Robinson reneged on his Williams decision and chose a Big 10 school instead? I haven't heard anything but would like that.

[amh63]

Was out at the beach for the weekend and lost track of the board chat.  With the running report of yesterday's games in Pepin and LeFrak....with under tones of the Toomey vs. Tompson battle for POY, I have a simple question....who was covering the other Cardinal scorer in the backcourt?
At first glance of the box from.  The Panther vs Cardinals game...both of Wes's senior guards seem to be having a bad day.  To me that their poor shooting, etc was the difference in the game.

[nescac1]

As of a few days ago, Walzy, Robinson was still committed to Williams :

http://www.nhnotebook.com/2013/02/phillips-exeter-boys-hoops-beats-tilton.html#more

This articles highlights an impressive win and notes the three future NESCAC players (two going to Wesleyan) on a loaded Exeter squad.  Of note was this passage:

t was a fast and furious comeback for the Big Red. Robinson drilled two HUGE 3-pointers right in the beginning of the 2nd half which got the team rolling. The first one came off a kick-out by Braley (committed to Stony Brook) which cut the Tilton lead in half and made it 33-30. Then the 6-foot-7 Robinson (committed to Williams College) hit a shot from six feet behind the 3-point line.

Tilton head coach Marcus O'Neil was then called for a technical foul, and Robinson made both free throws. It was 8 points for Robinson in less than 2 minutes, and now Exeter really had the momentum on their side.

"I just try to take good shots" said Robinson. "Harry found me with a good pass on the second one. It's been our thing all year, wearing teams down with the way we play defense and our depth."

Sounds like, as Toad has said, Rafferty is quite good also.  Too bad the Ephs couldn't keep both together for next year! 

[Panthernation]

Was out at the beach for the weekend and lost track of the board chat.  With the running report of yesterday's games in Pepin and LeFrak....with under tones of the Toomey vs. Tompson battle for POY, I have a simple question....who was covering the other Cardinal scorer in the backcourt?
At first glance of the box from.  The Panther vs Cardinals game...both of Wes's senior guards seem to be having a bad day.  To me that their poor shooting, etc was the difference in the game.

Amh63, Middlebury did a great job defending Beresford and Brown as a team. Jeff Brown drew up a 3-2 zone against the Cardinals the first time these two teams played, which worked well the first time and had even greater success in the game yesterday. Beresford was then checked by a combination of Wolfin or Kizel, with the latter drawing Beresford for most of the game when Middlebury was playing man defense. Kizel did a great job stopping Beresford from getting into the lane, and challenging shots when he got there. Kizel also made one of the plays of the game defensively, closing out on a Beresford three-point attempt and getting a piece of the shot on his way by to maintain an 11-point Middlebury lead with 12 minutes to go.

[Bucket]

Was out at the beach for the weekend and lost track of the board chat.  With the running report of yesterday's games in Pepin and LeFrak....with under tones of the Toomey vs. Tompson battle for POY, I have a simple question....who was covering the other Cardinal scorer in the backcourt?
At first glance of the box from.  The Panther vs Cardinals game...both of Wes's senior guards seem to be having a bad day.  To me that their poor shooting, etc was the difference in the game.

With all due to respect, Amh63, may I suggest that one cannot spend the day at the beach, pop up 24 hours later, take a glance at a box score, and then counter the accounts of those who were in the gym for the contest by suggesting that it was a "not their night" occasion for the Card backcourt?

Thankfully, Panthernation took your question at face value and explained how Beresford was stymied, which, coupled with Nolan's match-up with Sha, accounted for the atrocious stat line.

And before Walzy pencils me in for next year's all-crazy team for this seemingly over-reaction to a short post, may I say in my defense that the fact that our esteemed correspondent, Amh63, opened his commentary with the revelation that he was at the beach, literally, while the action in question took place...well, that was just too good to pass up.

[amh63]

Panthernation ...thanks!....apology to misspelling Norm's name.   Bad Beach day!   Fingers frozen as well as brain.

[nescac1]

One does not simply post on D3hoops.com without first watching the game in question. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r21CMDyPuGo

[middhoops]

I noticed that Daniel Wohl did not play yet again Saturday.  What is his injury?