MBB: NESCAC

[Old Guy]

After this I'll stop, I promise.

I just watched the St. Amour tape (13 minutes!) from his junior year. It's true about the competition - at 6'3 he's often the tallest player on the floor, but you do get to see the floor skills and shooting touch and range that excites us. The main thing I got from watching it, though, was how much fun high school hoop is: small gyms, hometown flavor, regular kids filling out rosters. He breaks the school's scoring record - hugs his mom, shakes hands with his dad, priceless: Vermonters!

[frank uible]

Dress him up in orange and send him to Syracuse!

[grabtherim]

Dress him up in orange and send him to Syracuse!

Frank, I have a feeling his quotes might be mentioned and commented on here more than a few times, and rightfully so.  Better to keep your comments low key and twitter limited before you play a college game.  Did he really tweet "taking my talents to Middlebury"? The proof or lack thereof will be seen when he goes up against the competiton next winter. 

[old_hooper]

Perhaps PN statistical expertise in game situations may be better spent advising Coach Brown how he can use this new player in his lineup against Kizel's weaknesses. Makes more sense than critiquing Toomey the All American and Coach Hixon who has been to the National Championship game 3 out of the last 7 years.

[Bucket]

OG - I was amused by his comments when I saw the level of competition he was playing against in that video.  He may end up being a great player but I hope he realizes he isn't going to be playing against JV level kids in the NESCAC.  Sounds like the folks that saw him in person liked what they saw but I'll have to wait until I see him play some real players.

Ben Ferris played against the same competition, and he's worked out ok (insert sarcasm) for Tufts. Plus, as Old Guy mentioned, he faced much stiffer AAU competition during the summer.

I don't think DI UVM would have guaranteed a roster spot (even a non-scholly one) if the kid couldn't play at a high level.

Of course, all this remains to be seen. Even with the graduation of Wolfin and Thompson, Midd returns abundant backcourt talent. St. Amour will be able to compete against—and learn from—very good players the minute he steps on campus.

[madzillagd]

Grab:

Matthieu St.Amour ‏@SwagAmour  26 Mar 
I am taking my talents to Middlebury. I can't be any more excited!!! It's been the toughest decision of my life.


OG - I'd say have a margarita at my favorite Tucson restaurant - J Bar at the Westin but unfortunately they closed it down when they remodeled.  So have a margarita at the Flying V instead. 

[Panthernation]

Perhaps PN statistical expertise in game situations may be better spent advising Coach Brown how he can use this new player in his lineup against Kizel's weaknesses. Makes more sense than critiquing Toomey the All American and Coach Hixon who has been to the National Championship game 3 out of the last 7 years.

We analyze Middlebury's personnel decisions pretty regularly, on our blog, twitter, radio show, and in our broadcasts. Certainly far more than we do Amherst's/Williams'. We made arguments about who should be seeing playing time and isn't, who shouldn't and is, how late-game situations should be managed differently, etc. In some cases far more repetitively than anything recent. On a side note, nobody started comparing our credentials to Coach Brown's or accusing us of having a personal vendetta against certain players (or a contrarian-inspired motive!). So we will do this, definitely, once we see enough of St. Amour and co. Not sure why it needs to be mutually exclusive with doing the same thing in lesser doses for other teams we see regularly, as you are implying (I.e. why not analyze the decisions of two great coaches instead of one?). But if this is a suggestion of hypocrisy or one-sidedness, that is inconsistent with a fairly large body of work.

[Bucket]

If you're interested in write-ups about how St. Amour fared against elite competition in regional and national AAU tournaments:


Matt St. Amour was the biggest standout performer of the All-Star game. His energy was constant, playing hard defense and running all over the floor to make plays. Also a fantastic student, he always seems to be in the right place in the right time on the court, and that high basketball IQ will certainly benefit him going into his senior year at Missiquoi (VT).

Matt St. Amour, Lone Wolf Athletics - Coming off a big performance at Hoop Mountain's Super Week II, St. Amour didn't miss a beat today by showing his complete offensive arsenal, making a variety of tough shots off both the catch and the dribble to lead his team offensively.

[nescac1]

Did he really say "I am taking my talents to Middlebury"?  Hopefully that was intended to be tongue-in-cheek, because while this kid may have been the Lebron of small Vermont high schools, he won't be the Lebron of the NESCAC.  Heck, he may have trouble seeing the floor at all next season because Midd has a lot of big, athletic, talented and experienced swing guards returning next year in Bullock, Sinnickson, Brierly, and last year's heralded frosh Prendergast, not an easy group to beat out as a first-year.  Plus, Midd has another pretty impressive guard coming in, although he is more of a point guard it seems.  In all events, in recent years, Coach Brown has been sitting some pretty talented frosh in favor of more experienced guys.

I'm sure he can and will eventually be an impact player for Middlebury given what the folks who have seen him in person are saying.  But Joe Mussachia was similarly dominant, statistically, in a small high school setting, and he has yet to sniff the floor during his first two years at Amherst (presumably, he'll play a bigger role next season).  I just hope St. Amour, who seems convinced that he will be a key cog on a championship team from day one, is not shocked if he has to wait a year or two before seeing extended court time.  (Lots of NESCAC guys have been recruited walk-ons at D-1 schools, by the way, and based on the fact that Vermont -- hardly a hoops power -- after watching him dominate its back yard for four years was still disinclined to offer a scholarship, I'm guessing he does not have the size or speed to play D-1). 

[Panthernation]

Did he really say "I am taking my talents to Middlebury"?  Hopefully that was intended to be tongue-in-cheek, because while this kid may have been the Lebron of small Vermont high schools, he won't be the Lebron of the NESCAC.  Heck, he may have trouble seeing the floor at all next season because Midd has a lot of big, athletic, talented and experienced swing guards returning next year in Bullock, Sinnickson, Brierly, and last year's heralded frosh Prendergast, not an easy group to beat out as a first-year.  Plus, Midd has another pretty impressive guard coming in, although he is more of a point guard it seems.  In all events, in recent years, Coach Brown has been sitting some pretty talented frosh in favor of more experienced guys.

I'm sure he can and will eventually be an impact player for Middlebury given what the folks who have seen him in person are saying.  But Joe Mussachia was similarly dominant, statistically, in a small high school setting, and he has yet to sniff the floor during his first two years at Amherst (presumably, he'll play a bigger role next season).  I just hope St. Amour, who seems convinced that he will be a key cog on a championship team from day one, is not shocked if he has to wait a year or two before seeing extended court time.  (Lots of NESCAC guys have been recruited walk-ons at D-1 schools, by the way, and based on the fact that Vermont -- hardly a hoops power -- after watching him dominate its back yard for four years was still disinclined to offer a scholarship, I'm guessing he does not have the size or speed to play D-1).

NESCAC1,

Having seen Matt St. Amour interviewed and followed his progress over the last few months, we can tell you that he is not the kind of person who will come to Middlebury expecting things to be given to him. From everything we have read about him, heard him say and seen him do, he is an incredibly hard worker who fits the mould of what Jeff Brown and the Middlebury coaching staff is trying to accomplish.

With regard to your point about freshman, in the past two years, yes, freshman have found it difficult to get off the bench early in the year. That has not always been the case, however. Joey Kizel made a big impact as a freshman three years ago and both Jake Wolfin and Nolan Thompson were essentially starters from Day 1.

The Middlebury coaching staff also has a high opinion of St Amour. Members of the staff have coached St. Amour during the summer. In fact St Amour and Duncan Robinson both played together on the same team over the summer from what I've heard, and St. Amour had a similar impact against the top talent that they both played against.

[nescac1]

Fair enough, Panthernation.  I'm guessing based on what you are saying that the tweet was sort of tongue-in-cheek then.  I'm not saying it's impossible that he will make a big impact as a frosh,  just that it is a huge step up in competition, and Midd seems to have a lot of talented guys who have been biding time behind Thompson/Wolfin and who are ready to play at the wing spots, so nothing is guaranteed. 

Speaking of Robinson, he was recently ranked the 47th best recruit in New England:

http://www.newenglandrecruitingreport.com/rankings/new_england.php

I've never seen a NESCAC recruit higher than 70 on that site (which in past years ranked the top 100, but now only does the top 50). 

The same site also confirms St. Amour's commitment:

http://www.newenglandrecruitingreport.com/news/article/3023/Commitment-CatchUp.php

[Panthernation]

Fair enough, Panthernation.  I'm guessing based on what you are saying that the tweet was sort of tongue-in-cheek then.

Yeah that seems fair and that's how I read it. He is a high schooler in a small town who tweets for his friends who know him and know what he is about. I don't think any sports fan (he is a big one- tweets about pro/college sports all the time) would use that line seriously; it has become a joke, the sort of joke a high school sports fan makes on twitter.

Also, in general, having followed a lot of d3 athletes/recruits on twitter, it's fair to say that if we start analyzing their tweets like this, it would give this board an offseason's worth of material to criticize.

[gordonmann]

He needs a highlight video like that kid that went to Trinity a couple years ago. +K to whomever remembers the reference and can find the video.

[amh63]

Gordonmann....how about a name!   Then we can check if the player is still at Trinity...since there has been a relative large turnover with the Bantams

[frank uible]

What was it that Erasmus said about one-eyed kings?