MBB: NESCAC

[Bucket]

I really like what Middlebury has done with their basketball program. However, they are likely to be down next year. I'm not saying that the'll be mediocre next year, they won't -- they will be good. They just won't be as good as they have been. They lose a lot. Lynch was a total stud his senior year. He was one of the best interior players Williams faced all year. Thompson was a great defender, and shooter. Wolfin was the most important of the three. He set up the offense nearly every possession. Those players were all skill players. It will be very difficult to replace them with players of equal skill. You need offense to beat really good opponents, and I don't think that there is quite as much offense as there has been. The defense should be very solid, as will their rebounding.

I'm going to have to disagree. I think both Sinnickson (if he stays healthy) and Daley are going to prove to be a couple of dynamic offensive forces...very tough matchups because of their size and athleticism. I agree with the assessment that this team has the potential to be more dynamic, offensively, than last year's. Add the shooting of Merryman, the all-around stellar play of Kizel, Jensen's ability to get to the hoop, and the development toward the end of the year of both Churchill and Roberts on the block--a lot of options. (And that's without mentioning the bevy of guards--Pendergast, Huff, Bulluck, Alvarez, and the highly touted freshmen cohort.)

The biggest question, to me, is whether someone will be able to get the ball in the hands of these players when and where they need it. Jake Wolfin did that masterfully for four years.

[grabtherim]

I really like what Middlebury has done with their basketball program. However, they are likely to be down next year. I'm not saying that the'll be mediocre next year, they won't -- they will be good. They just won't be as good as they have been. They lose a lot. Lynch was a total stud his senior year. He was one of the best interior players Williams faced all year. Thompson was a great defender, and shooter. Wolfin was the most important of the three. He set up the offense nearly every possession. Those players were all skill players. It will be very difficult to replace them with players of equal skill. You need offense to beat really good opponents, and I don't think that there is quite as much offense as there has been. The defense should be very solid, as will their rebounding.

I'm going to have to disagree. I think both Sinnickson (if he stays healthy) and Daley are going to prove to be a couple of dynamic offensive forces...very tough matchups because of their size and athleticism. I agree with the assessment that this team has the potential to be more dynamic, offensively, than last year's. Add the shooting of Merryman, the all-around stellar play of Kizel, Jensen's ability to get to the hoop, and the development toward the end of the year of both Churchill and Roberts on the block--a lot of options. (And that's without mentioning the bevy of guards--Pendergast, Huff, Bulluck, Alvarez, and the highly touted freshmen cohort.)

The biggest question, to me, is whether someone will be able to get the ball in the hands of these players when and where they need it. Jake Wolfin did that masterfully for four years.

Good point on the assists and Wolfin.  He had a knack for getting the ball to the open man, and the necessary short memory which allowed him to make the next tough pass after a turnover or two.  Replacing that will not be easy.  Some legit questions based on Buckets question: Can Kizel add more of this to his game without diminishing his strengths?  Can Pendergast or recruits Brown and St. Armor help? Biggest question I guess is: Does Midd have or need a pure PG to be successful after having one they looked to for the past four years?  One thing you can be sure to see:  NESCAC coaches putting much more pressure on Midd's guards than they had with Wolfin, and before him Edwards and Rudin, to see where they stand in this area.     

[LarryBasketball33]

I really like what Middlebury has done with their basketball program. However, they are likely to be down next year. I'm not saying that the'll be mediocre next year, they won't -- they will be good. They just won't be as good as they have been. They lose a lot. Lynch was a total stud his senior year. He was one of the best interior players Williams faced all year. Thompson was a great defender, and shooter. Wolfin was the most important of the three. He set up the offense nearly every possession. Those players were all skill players. It will be very difficult to replace them with players of equal skill. You need offense to beat really good opponents, and I don't think that there is quite as much offense as there has been. The defense should be very solid, as will their rebounding.

I'm going to have to disagree. I think both Sinnickson (if he stays healthy) and Daley are going to prove to be a couple of dynamic offensive forces...very tough matchups because of their size and athleticism. I agree with the assessment that this team has the potential to be more dynamic, offensively, than last year's. Add the shooting of Merryman, the all-around stellar play of Kizel, Jensen's ability to get to the hoop, and the development toward the end of the year of both Churchill and Roberts on the block--a lot of options. (And that's without mentioning the bevy of guards--Pendergast, Huff, Bulluck, Alvarez, and the highly touted freshmen cohort.)

The biggest question, to me, is whether someone will be able to get the ball in the hands of these players when and where they need it. Jake Wolfin did that masterfully for four years.

Good point on the assists and Wolfin.  He had a knack for getting the ball to the open man, and the necessary short memory which allowed him to make the next tough pass after a turnover or two.  Replacing that will not be easy.  Some legit questions based on Buckets question: Can Kizel add more of this to his game without diminishing his strengths?  Can Pendergast or recruits Brown and St. Armor help? Biggest question I guess is: Does Midd have or need a pure PG to be successful after having one they looked to for the past four years?  One thing you can be sure to see:  NESCAC coaches putting much more pressure on Midd's guards than they had with Wolfin, and before him Edwards and Rudin, to see where they stand in this area.     

Quoting one of my favorite songs, "You don't know what you got till it's gone".  Even a hick knows you cannot score unless you get the ball.  Coach Brown will find a way to get this done, but it's hard to imagine a big increase in assists from Kizel, not the best part of his game.  As important as the assists, who will bring up the ball.  Wolfin did it the most with Kizel and Thompson often doing some.  2/3 gone, time for someone to step up.   

[LarryBasketball33]

After my post, an old friend sent me these links from Wolfin's freshman year.  No wonder he ended up as Midd's all time assist leader.  Thompson, Lynch and Wolfin, heck of a recruiting class for Jeff Brown.   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cI3RsGRu4g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj3aX_WuL30

[toad22]

Thompson wasn't part of that recruiting class, he was an actual walk-on!

[ephman]

Just want to add to the discussion of the "best" teams.  as a former eph player, i can say that my eph team during the late 80s/early 90s was a formidable one.  additionally, colby (with matt hancock/whitmore) has to go down as one of the best in NESCAC history.  back in the day when you couldnt go to NCAAs......

Thanks for sharing your perspective, ephman.  I only started following NESCAC basketball in the 2001-02 season, and, unfortunately, I really know very little about NESCAC basketball history prior to 2000-2001.  Were regular season conference champions recognized in the years before the NESCAC Tournament? Were there all-conference teams?  If so, is any of this information available online anywhere (nescac.com appears only to go as far back as 2000-01 -- the dawn of the modern NESCAC era as I like to think of it)?

I like to think that Amherst's current two-year run has been impressive, but there may be many comparable (or better) undefeated streaks in the rather long history of the NESCAC.

regular season champs have always been recognized, but going to the NCAAs didnt start until the 93-94 (i assume that is when the conference tourney started as well).  the ECAC was the only outlet following the regular season.  as i stated previously, colby was the top dog.  hancock (matt hancock) from colby was the national player of the year in 1989, without playing in the NCAA tourney, and made the second cut of the celtics.  look him up.  and my eph teams were the first eph teams to be ranked.....it's funny that you youngsters think NESCAC started in the 21st century.....

[dman]

nescac conference tournament play began in the 2001 season.  an unofficial champion was crowned in 2000 (williams), but no tournament was played.....

[quicksilver]

regular season champs have always been recognized, but going to the NCAAs didnt start until the 93-94 (i assume that is when the conference tourney started as well).  the ECAC was the only outlet following the regular season.  as i stated previously, colby was the top dog.  hancock (matt hancock) from colby was the national player of the year in 1989, without playing in the NCAA tourney, and made the second cut of the celtics.  look him up.  and my eph teams were the first eph teams to be ranked.....it's funny that you youngsters think NESCAC started in the 21st century.....

Well, if a regular season NESCAC champ was crowned before 2001, it would be bizarre since several NESCAC members did not even play each other during the regular season prior to 2001 . . . NESCAC set rules for its members -- chiefly things like regulating post-season play -- prior to the 21st century but did not become a playing conference until 2000 and even later for some sports like basketball . . 

[Vandy74]

To give credit where it's due, Ralph Turner pointed this out on another d3 board.  I'm not sure what to make of it but Mount Union, Amherst and Linfield, the d3 national champions in football, basketball and baseball for the 2012-13 season all shared purple as their official team color.

[ephman]

regular season champs have always been recognized, but going to the NCAAs didnt start until the 93-94 (i assume that is when the conference tourney started as well).  the ECAC was the only outlet following the regular season.  as i stated previously, colby was the top dog.  hancock (matt hancock) from colby was the national player of the year in 1989, without playing in the NCAA tourney, and made the second cut of the celtics.  look him up.  and my eph teams were the first eph teams to be ranked.....it's funny that you youngsters think NESCAC started in the 21st century.....

Well, if a regular season NESCAC champ was crowned before 2001, it would be bizarre since several NESCAC members did not even play each other during the regular season prior to 2001 . . . NESCAC set rules for its members -- chiefly things like regulating post-season play -- prior to the 21st century but did not become a playing conference until 2000 and even later for some sports like basketball . .

you have no idea what you are talking about. just because NESCAC teams werent playing in the NCAAs doesnt mean they didnt play each other during the regular season, or crown a champion.  you obviously didnt play, and are just talking out of your tookus... and i would appreciate if you could write something intelligible...

[ephman]

Just want to add to the discussion of the "best" teams.  as a former eph player, i can say that my eph team during the late 80s/early 90s was a formidable one.  additionally, colby (with matt hancock/whitmore) has to go down as one of the best in NESCAC history.  back in the day when you couldnt go to NCAAs......

Thanks for sharing your perspective, ephman.  I only started following NESCAC basketball in the 2001-02 season, and, unfortunately, I really know very little about NESCAC basketball history prior to 2000-2001.  Were regular season conference champions recognized in the years before the NESCAC Tournament? Were there all-conference teams?  If so, is any of this information available online anywhere (nescac.com appears only to go as far back as 2000-01 -- the dawn of the modern NESCAC era as I like to think of it)?

I like to think that Amherst's current two-year run has been impressive, but there may be many comparable (or better) undefeated streaks in the rather long history of the NESCAC.

yram graf was a baller, you should know him amherststudent... hahahaha

[quicksilver]

regular season champs have always been recognized, but going to the NCAAs didnt start until the 93-94 (i assume that is when the conference tourney started as well).  the ECAC was the only outlet following the regular season.  as i stated previously, colby was the top dog.  hancock (matt hancock) from colby was the national player of the year in 1989, without playing in the NCAA tourney, and made the second cut of the celtics.  look him up.  and my eph teams were the first eph teams to be ranked.....it's funny that you youngsters think NESCAC started in the 21st century.....

Well, if a regular season NESCAC champ was crowned before 2001, it would be bizarre since several NESCAC members did not even play each other during the regular season prior to 2001 . . . NESCAC set rules for its members -- chiefly things like regulating post-season play -- prior to the 21st century but did not become a playing conference until 2000 and even later for some sports like basketball . .

you have no idea what you are talking about. just because NESCAC teams werent playing in the NCAAs doesnt mean they didnt play each other during the regular season, or crown a champion.  you obviously didnt play, and are just talking out of your tookus... and i would appreciate if you could write something intelligible...

Wow - try using the Internet before you post unadulterated BS -- there was no "regular season" NESCAC champion before 2001. Period. You have an active imagination but that's about it. If some NESCAC school was declaring itself to be a champion when the NESCAc schools did not even all play each other, then that would be pathetic. Don't make stuff up and think you can make it true by being an aggressive jerk.

[ephman]

regular season champs have always been recognized, but going to the NCAAs didnt start until the 93-94 (i assume that is when the conference tourney started as well).  the ECAC was the only outlet following the regular season.  as i stated previously, colby was the top dog.  hancock (matt hancock) from colby was the national player of the year in 1989, without playing in the NCAA tourney, and made the second cut of the celtics.  look him up.  and my eph teams were the first eph teams to be ranked.....it's funny that you youngsters think NESCAC started in the 21st century.....

Well, if a regular season NESCAC champ was crowned before 2001, it would be bizarre since several NESCAC members did not even play each other during the regular season prior to 2001 . . . NESCAC set rules for its members -- chiefly things like regulating post-season play -- prior to the 21st century but did not become a playing conference until 2000 and even later for some sports like basketball . .

you have no idea what you are talking about. just because NESCAC teams werent playing in the NCAAs doesnt mean they didnt play each other during the regular season, or crown a champion.  you obviously didnt play, and are just talking out of your tookus... and i would appreciate if you could write something intelligible...

Wow - try using the Internet before you post unadulterated BS -- there was no "regular season" NESCAC champion before 2001. Period. You have an active imagination but that's about it. If some NESCAC school was declaring itself to be a champion when the NESCAc schools did not even all play each other, then that would be pathetic. Don't make stuff up and think you can make it true by being an aggressive jerk.

hahaha... once again, i played in NESCAC. did you?  just because your beloved "internets" doesn't acknowledge a truth doesn't mean said truth doesn't exist. additionally, we, the ephs, played everybody in conference every year that i played. the idea that there was not a NESCAC "champion" is nonsensical.  that's like suggesting there was no BIG TEN champion before their conference tournament was established..... 

[Old Guy]

Midd hoops: What Middlebury lost to graduation was heart and leadership, as much as talent. Intangibles, yes, but crucial, and the source of many of those tight wins. I've never seen this this much talent, top to bottom, in the Middlebury program. We'll see who steps up.

RE: Williams' Sheehan '66, football-basketball-baseball. That was my time at Middlebury. Williams was a great team, routinely killed us. I'm going to look up Sheehan in the Middlebury media, see how he did against us. I'll tell the Eph I do remember, Billy Drummond, tight end in football, strong (really strong) forward in basketball. In my recollection, he was enormous (probably about 6'4" in reality). I remember one play in particular: he nailed me with an elbow to the jaw as he went up for a shot at the basket - he never strayed far from the hoop. Ref called a foul - on me! I protested, "I hit him with my face?" Ref said, "right."

I have, then, all these decades following Midd sports (Old Guy). I don't recall a Midd athlete who attempted a football-basketball-baseball combination. Our Jim Thorpes were football-hockey-baseball (Wendy Forbes) and football-basketball-track (Sonny Dennis), both in the 1950s. More recently John Atherton (1993) played four sports, soccer-hockey-lacrosse; then, because he missed his first soccer season, he played on the football team in a final fall semester.

[maineman]

Midd hoops: What Middlebury lost to graduation was heart and leadership, as much as talent. Intangibles, yes, but crucial, and the source of many of those tight wins. I've never seen this this much talent, top to bottom, in the Middlebury program. We'll see who steps up.

RE: Williams' Sheehan '66, football-basketball-baseball. That was my time at Middlebury. Williams was a great team, routinely killed us. I'm going to look up Sheehan in the Middlebury media, see how he did against us. I'll tell the Eph I do remember, Billy Drummond, tight end in football, strong (really strong) forward in basketball. In my recollection, he was enormous (probably about 6'4" in reality). I remember one play in particular: he nailed me with an elbow to the jaw as he went up for a shot at the basket - he never strayed far from the hoop. Ref called a foul - on me! I protested, "I hit him with my face?" Ref said, "right."

I have, then, all these decades following Midd sports (Old Guy). I don't recall a Midd athlete who attempted a football-basketball-baseball combination. Our Jim Thorpes were football-hockey-baseball (Wendy Forbes) and football-basketball-track (Sonny Dennis), both in the 1950s. More recently John Atherton (1993) played four sports, soccer-hockey-lacrosse; then, because he missed his first soccer season, he played on the football team in a final fall semester.

John Sales (2008) played soccer, hockey and lacrosse.