MBB: NESCAC

[madzillagd]

I've had many a conversation about that with a friend that coached for 30 years in D3 and the one point he always makes is: it's D3 basketball, not D1 basketball.  The point being, you don't always do what may be considered the norm at other levels of coaching. Some coaches prefer to play their upperclassmen instead of freshmen even if their freshmen happens to be more talented.  There could be a number of reasons but I think a major factor is you are rewarding kids that have put 4 years of hard work into the program.  That might be considered foolish but at this level I can't necessarily say it's wrong.  I'm sure the majority of those coaches would not be making the same decision at the D1 level if that's where they were at. I think it's something that is unique about D3. 

I think a prime example of that is with Williams last year and how Maker handled one of his 4 seniors.  McClelland played a total of 149 minutes his first three years in the program but Maker stuck with him and rewarded him with 222 minutes last year.  There was a more talented alternative in D1 transfer Kilcullen on the roster, and if you look at the stats Kilcullen actually outscored, outrebounded, blocked more shots, and shot at a higher % than McClelland last year in 1/3 less minutes.  Maker could have easily played McClelland 28 mins like he did the year before and thrown another 200 mins at Kilcullen and he likely would have been rewarded with a whole lot more offense and defense than he got, but he did the "foolish" thing and stuck by the senior that had been in the program.  Personally I would have loved to see him give 100 of those minutes to Kilcullen and McClelland still would have had a career high in minutes, but it's hard to argue with a coach that sticks by his upperclassmen and still has won .815 of his games.

[madzillagd]

The question is: how many Williams and Amherst recruits (kids they would really like to have) turn them down for the opportunity to have an immediate impact somewhere else, maybe at a bottom half (but still mighty desirable) NESCAC school? Not many, I'd guess. Conversely, how many kids that the Ephs and Jeffs have gone after pretty hard have ended up not making a significant contribution for them, in time, disappointments? My sense is they have the luxury of getting just about whomever they want, and have made mighty few "mistakes."

This is an interesting thought because I think the reality at Williams is they are facing a lot of rejection on who they are going after, possibly more than the other schools, it's just that they are not necessarily losing those players to other D3 schools.  I think they are targeting a lot of lower D1 and D2 level players and therefore they are losing out on a lot of these potential recruits because guys want that D1 badge.  The upside to this is of course that you can land some great athletes that have the potential to be All Americans and All NESCAC players.  The downside is you are sometimes playing catch up recruiting some of the best D3 level talent that have been the main target of your competitors.  You look at Williams, they only brought in 3 guys last year (2 freshmen) and 3 freshmen this year versus Amherst who I believe somehow got an entire platoon through admissions this year after their championship 

[P'bearfan]

The question is: how many Williams and Amherst recruits (kids they would really like to have) turn them down for the opportunity to have an immediate impact somewhere else, maybe at a bottom half (but still mighty desirable) NESCAC school? Not many, I'd guess. Conversely, how many kids that the Ephs and Jeffs have gone after pretty hard have ended up not making a significant contribution for them, in time, disappointments? My sense is they have the luxury of getting just about whomever they want, and have made mighty few "mistakes."   

When you look at the depth and quality of the Williams, Amherst and Midd rosters you have to conclude that it's not hurting them.  However, I'm not sure all the kids are being rational - someone has to sit and for a long time.  It's similar to when USC had 9 HS All American tailbacks a few years ago - I mean what was the 9th guy thinking?  I have the same question about the last guard to join Midd's recruiting class this year - it's a great program and a great school but wouldn't you have a better opportunity elsewhere? 

The entire recruiting process is a very individual one but I'm sure that some high quality players made the decision early in the process not to pursue Williams, Amherst and Midd b/c they can get a great education and more playing time at another NESCAC school.

[nescac1]

I really don't think Williams has had a lot of super-talented guys sitting the bench for more than one year in the Maker era, and frosh are likely to have to pay their dues at most places worth playing, typically speaking.  As madizllagd noted, Williams is only given 3-4 recruit slots per year, and when you consider that some guys will inevitably get injured, lose interest, transfer, just not pan out for whatever reason, the Ephs actually have a pretty thin margin for error.  And it's also not true that Williams gets all the guys they want vs. other NESCAC schools -- there are plenty of guys who Williams would LOVE to take who they can't get through admissions, of course.  Anyone who can really play, will get significant playing time by his junior year at the LATEST at Williams, and often before that.  Amherst has a slightly larger roster, especially after the last two recruiting years, so I imagine some of this year's frosh in particular may sit the bench a bit longer than they anticipate.  But even still, Amherst (with the biggest projected NESCAC roster) is typically nowhere close to some of the Midwest schools in terms of having waves of capable players at its disposal. -- check out Illinois Wesleyan's pre-season roster if you want to see what crazy depth looks like, for example.    The top NESCAC schools tend to be really-top heavy -- they might have 2-3 all-American caliber guys, but then only go 7-8 deep overall in terms of players the coaches trust. 

[hoya73]

Don't know if NESCAC1 is suggesting that Hixon has more than 3-4 spots when he says Williams only has 3-4 spots because I think that the playing field is level on that issue.  In my observation of the LJ program over the last several years, Hixon has successfully recruited kids who don't need "slots", like top academic kids, or others who don't need an extra push at Admissions, and that contributes to his larger rosters.  And rosters that size are no picnic either!

[amh63]

Hoyas73...most perceptive post! ..a karma pt. to you?  Have we ever meet in LeFrak?
Recruiting, squad sizes and admissions...all topics that stir me up, especially at this time.
Madz'...I know you are just pulling my chain in your last post.    Still, I will respond.  I believe three of the class of '17 were EDs and maybe  another.  This time frame is no later than January....before the title run!  I believe the other two FY players came in on regular decision time...after the title was won.  Slots are usually targeted for EDs.  Risky to use them to get recruits in the Spring.
Nescac1 pointed out an Amherst recruit for next season...a Crotty AAU product.  To hoya's point, the player is a double legacy recruit and most likely did not need a slot.  We all know that a kid with both parents being Amherst graduates has to be smart . I posted sometime in the past that I meet Matt Mathias, the senior guard at Bowdoin when he was a pre freshman.  It was at an Amherst game in Stevenson, Md.  His parents were there and we chatted.  Matt's parents are both Amherst graduates.  I found out that Matt had gone ED to Bowdoin and was accepted.  The Mathias ' all went to say hello to Coach Hixon after the game.  Matt played quite a game in LeFrak last season..high scorer for the Polar Bears.  Toomey and Kalema are both Mathias' size and built.
Squad size....Amherst in 2012 graduated 6 players, many starters.  The class of 2013 graduated 3 seniors we all know so well.  That class had 7 players arrive as FYs. Two were lost to injuries, one transferred and his twin left the team.  Of the original 7, six graduated.  One player, Spencer
Noon played soccer and BB his first year.  He was projected to be a soccer player from a recruiting point of view.  Spencer was a CT all state BB player twice over but injuries caused him to stick with soccer...he was a first team All-American and the all time Amherst high point holder.  He also was an All- academic winner and a honor graduate.  I like Spencer...his father was an All-American BB player at the U. of Hartford who played against Hixon!
The junior class lost two players to football.  Both Lippe and Garay were FY players.   For football followers, No. 5 and No.13 are doing well, both starters and contributing. . Stop here.  Get to players that made it in on academic grounds another time...my guesses.

[nescac1]

A few mentions of Bates' Mike Boornazian in this profile of Andre Drummond:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9827138/the-life-career-detroit-pistons-center-andre-drummond

The highlight:

The move should help Drummond's dating life, if nothing else. As a joke, Drummond and Mike Boornazian, one of the friends he grew up playing basketball with, decided they should date the actresses from iCarly. So Drummond sent tweets to Jennette McCurdy. Boornazian directed his to Miranda Cosgrove. It took a while, but McCurdy finally answered Drummond. In August, the two posted several pictures of themselves together on Instagram. McCurdy even penned an article about their relationship for The Wall Street Journal. "I was kind of doing it for fun at first," Drummond said. "I really meant it in the back of my head. But it was kind of just fun for me. But when she did respond, I was really excited."

Boornazian is still awaiting Cosgrove's response.

"I'd like to think that Miranda is just kind of busy right now and hopefully, I'll wake up one morning and have a text back or something," said Boornazian, who plays at Bates College. "It's kind of wishful thinking."

[madzillagd]

The Boornazian/Drummond friendship is one that is highly entertaining on twitter I can tell you.  Both are mature enough to not take themselves too seriously and immature enough to do some really silly stuff.  They spent a few nights last year where they went on a vine spree putting out one after another of off-the-wall videos that I'm sure would have been on ESPN had they come from LeBron or some other NBA superstar. 

Boornazian posted this pic of their skyping session last week which illustrates my point...

[P'bearfan]

The wise and venerable Vandy74 isn't the Youtube geek that I am when it comes to checking out the incoming first year players, but I'm guessing many of you are.  Excepting the teams you root for, who do you think will be the top players, eventually, of the class of '17?

Based on the tapes I've seen Amherst's Jacob Nabatoff has the most upside in the class of '17.  He's unpolished (like many bigs coming into the NESCAC) but he's so darn long and it looks like he's atheltic enough to develop into quite a player.  He may not make a splash this year but 2 years from now he could be a real force.

[middhoops]

Yeah, I saw the same thing.  Completely agree on every point.

[nescac1]

I'm not sure I'd put Nabatoff above George in terms of upside, but one thing is for sure, if guys reach their potential Amherst may be scarily stacked at the 4/5 in two years between those two guys plus Pollack and Sanderson -- four guys who average around 6'8 and all have plus athleticism for their positions.  How quickly that quartet develops this year may well determine whether Amherst can once against contend for a title. 

[middhoops]

George appears to already be an elite athlete.  If he has much upside, that's scary.

[old_hooper]

If you look at the 6 of the 13 years that either Amherst or Williams have been in the title games they have had stellar back courts.  This is Amherst's strength...with Toomey POY, Kalema and Killan.  These two guys (Kalema & Killian) will be such key players in teams success leadership and on the floor. When you put the two sophs of Green and Pollack who contributed so much last year and their anticipated growth from last year this should be a very solid team. 

The three or four players who earn time in the rotation will have time to perfect their rolls with only modest contributions required from them.  There is certainly a lot of athletic bigs to choose from here and depth should not be a question.  Sanderson along with Pollack will probably see the most minutes with the frosh making contributions but you still cannot discount Levine and Buckner. There appears to be enough diversity within the freshman class with talent that could be compared to the deep 2008 class with only two starters back from the 07 team that made it back to the finals in 08. The key in that group is berman the PG.  If he is capable to earn meaningful minutes as a backup right away this will be ideal for the backcourt and his future as player in the program.  The key for the LJs is that they will have to prove they will be a consistently good defensive team.

[jayhawk]

George and Nabatoff are different types of players. At the present time they compliment each other. George is more athletic and more of a defensive presences with a solid jumper in the key and has a more mature game. Nabatoff is younger , remembering that he grew 12 inches over 3 years. He started playing as a guard. Hopefully as he matures he will continue to develop.
The Amherst frosh have two excellent shooters, Diego Magana- two years in a row came in second in 3 pt Arizona state all star game. Jeff Racy is an absolute dead shooter when open - but needs space- more of a catch and shoot. With Killian around this year may see less time.
Berman has the potential be solid but time will tell. By next year there may be more recruits at that position. Ray Barry may find time yet at guard

I have seen the potential recruit John McCarthy for next year play and believe he might actually be able to start at two guard next year - 

Less talk about it but intrigued by Tufts Frontline- extremely rugged- Last year player of the year Tom Palleschi- has excellent fundamentals and is very strong - he was just shorter and not able to move Kaasila- Their new freshman big man appears to be more fluid and strong- wonder if they will play at same time at all

[middhoops]

Tufts fans should be all over this.  Sabety and Madsen are going to be very welcome for the Jumbos and could put them in the top tier during their tenure.