MBB: NESCAC

[Bucket]

Egregious officiating going on here in Owings Mills. But go ahead, Dave, tell us it's not happening.

I'm sitting here watching. There have been a lot of calls I wouldn't have made, but only two I thought were really bad. It's early season for the refs too. I've seen way more positioning issues this weekend than bad calls.

Well that's part of good officiating, right? Positioning? I don't think it's decided the game. Just really ugly to see.

[nescac1]

Clutch, clutch three point at the buzzer by Kizel to send the game to OT.  I always like fouling before the shot in that situation but arguments go both ways.  Kizel has been absolutely tremendous for Midd, making big plays all game.  Midd has also dominated the interior at times, they are the much bigger and stronger team and have benefited from their interior muscle (in particular by Nidenburg, who is a house in the paint).  On the downside for Midd, I've never seen a Midd team give up so many layups, either off transition steals, or simply from guys blowing by their opponent with no interior help coming over.  Midd will have to work on that a lot, no matter the outcome today -- they could really use Andrew Locke out there (who couldn't ?).  The three point shot has been Midd's saving grace as Midd has shot very well from distance, been very clutch in that regard and St. Mary's can't hit anything from three, they've missed many easy / open looks from distance.  Both teams have struggled at times missing key free throws -- I think St. Mary's missed three front-end one-and-ones, and Midd has been brutal from the line. 

LaGuerre is really fun to watch for St. Mary's, he is an extremely smooth and crafty finisher and ball-handler, definitely one of the better guards in the country, he is obviously their MVP.  Kizel was absolutely dymanite for Midd, and Nidenburg (other than free throw shooting) was outstanding.  No one else really stood out today for Midd although Merryman was tough on the boards.  Jake Brown made some absolute highlight real plays, in particular a spectacular behind-the-back wraparound assist that was easily the play of the game, but also is a bit wild / out of control at times and needs a bit of work on his decision-making (as you'd expect from a frosh facing a tough pressure defense).  While it's a close call, right now, based on the games I've seen, Rafferty has my vote for top frosh PG in NESCAC just because he is steadier and a better shooter, although not quite as electric. Both will be good ones, however. 

[middhoops]

Tough loss for Midd.  I'll keep my most honest opinions to myself, I think.  This team is developing.  By January I think they'll be an offensive force with a defense improving slowly.
Congrats to St. Mary's who stepped up big time to beat a good NESCAC team.
Hopefully amh63 will enlighten us on what he saw. 

[Charles]

Clutch, clutch three point at the buzzer by Kizel to send the game to OT.  I always like fouling before the shot in that situation but arguments go both ways.  Kizel has been absolutely tremendous for Midd, making big plays all game.  Midd has also dominated the interior at times, they are the much bigger and stronger team and have benefited from their interior muscle (in particular by Nidenburg, who is a house in the paint).  On the downside for Midd, I've never seen a Midd team give up so many layups, either off transition steals, or simply from guys blowing by their opponent with no interior help coming over.  Midd will have to work on that a lot, no matter the outcome today -- they could really use Andrew Locke out there (who couldn't ?).  The three point shot has been Midd's saving grace as Midd has shot very well from distance, been very clutch in that regard and St. Mary's can't hit anything from three, they've missed many easy / open looks from distance.  Both teams have struggled at times missing key free throws -- I think St. Mary's missed three front-end one-and-ones, and Midd has been brutal from the line. 

LaGuerre is really fun to watch for St. Mary's, he is an extremely smooth and crafty finisher and ball-handler, definitely one of the better guards in the country, he is obviously their MVP.  Kizel was absolutely dymanite for Midd, and Nidenburg (other than free throw shooting) was outstanding.  No one else really stood out today for Midd although Merryman was tough on the boards.  Jake Brown made some absolute highlight real plays, in particular a spectacular behind-the-back wraparound assist that was easily the play of the game, but also is a bit wild / out of control at times and needs a bit of work on his decision-making (as you'd expect from a frosh facing a tough pressure defense).  While it's a close call, right now, based on the games I've seen, Rafferty has my vote for top frosh PG in NESCAC just because he is steadier and a better shooter, although not quite as electric. Both will be good ones, however.

although a selfish behind the back pass in traffic at the end of OT.

[Bucket]

Why lose a game very early that you would win a couple of weeks later? You can easily lose an at large birth doing stuff like that.

How quickly we forget that Amherst lost twice in early December last year, one of those defeats being on their home court, and both were regional games.

I don't recall those losses—against teams they would have beaten later in the season—as having an adverse effect on their season.

Of course, if we look back at posts at that time, I'm sure we would find a lot of hand-wringing and cocksure assumptions about the deficiencies of the eventual conference and national champs.

[I don't mean this as a harsh retort to Toad, who I consider a friend. Just a healthy reminder that rarely are seasons made or broken in November.]

[middhoops]

Yeah, what Bucket said.....

[jayhawk]

Like what Bucket said, especially when several players who have not had significant college experience are thrown into the mix.
No one  would have picked Amherst to be so successful when their year started off with two losses

[amh63]

Back home from watching the  Middlebury game.  Hoop Fan found me sitting among the Panther fans on the side facing the team benches.  Remember Hoop from the F & M sectionals two years ago. Sat there eating my lunch and keep my comments to a minimum...mouth full . Mrs Jensen greeted me and made introductions.  Mrs Kizel sat to my left and the St. Amour family was behind me...so what am I going to say .
Enjoyable game to watch...trying to put players to numbers on the Panthers.  Actually not too impressed with the Sea Hawks..guess it is not the Sea Gulls...my bad, I guess. 
Hoop Fan...to my right..mentioned St. Mary was playing better than in the Fri. game.
First, my general impressions of both teams on the floor and maybe some sensitive particulars to follow.
Whatever the level of refs on the floor, there were some hard to understand calls...many of the type with the out of position ref making the call.  There was one when Roberts..no. 55...seemed to make a foul on a driving guard..no. 15...short player.  Number 35 of the Sea Hawks goes to the line..better shooter.  Panther fans calls out that the wrong shooter was on the line...at a critical point in the game.
Told the Jensen's that I felt that the Team will be ok in the games ahead.  Yes, Middlebury has "holes" to fill before they can challenge for the title...inside defense and lack of rebounding from their "bigs" are a few. 
Particulars...mention to "Joey's" mom that her son needs to mentally take some of the pressure off himself.  Coach Brown needs to find an offensive option for Kizel to go to at critical times.  Last second shots to tie or win games is hard for even an All- American player.  Jake Brown may need to be in the game with  Kizel to take the ball handling chores at times.  Kalema is in the game with Toomey for Amherst I believe for that purpose..as teams target Toomey.  Teams will target/shadow Kizel..likewise.  Mentioned to Hoop Fan that maybe Kizel needs to go to the off-guard..2..to be more effective.
St. Mary has a nice team that has quick slashing guards.  They lack size up front and have few low post offensive options.  Really, do not know why they are so highly ranked.
In conclusion, it has been a most interesting early season so far around the D3 BB world.
Final lesson of the day for me...BB moms are louder at games than Dads!
Update/correction....must learn to spell someone's name correct.  An apology to the Kizel family.

[jayhawk]

Looking over Harry Rafferty's stat impressive. As a point guard he appears to be a "scoring" point guar as his assist numbers range around or 3 or so per game. Assist numbers can also obviously influenced by supporting cast  ability to put the ball in the hoop

[toad22]

Of course, there are no correct answers about scheduling. I would suggest, however, that Middlebury playing in a highly competitive tournament in November is a lot more daring than Amherst losing a pair of games to traditional, but lesser, rivals in December. Also, don't forget that Amherst ran the table from those losses forward. Those two losses dramatically reduces the chances of Middlebury to make the NCAA tournament. It's just the numbers of wins and losses. I really like the Midd team this year. They are very talented, and I would expect them to make the tournament by either winning the NESCAC or getting an at large bid. However, the chances of gaining an at large go way down if you don't win at least 19-20 games in the regular season. Thus, Midd must limit their losses from now to mid February to 2-3. That is a tough task. If the NESCAC teams had a "regular" month of practice before the first games, I wouldn't be writing any of this. But we are greatly handicapped in the early going by our start date of Nov 1. A couple of weeks from now, all NESCAC teams should be a lot better than they are now, and presumably will have "caught up" to the rest of D3. I just think it is very risky to push the schedule too much.   

[middhoops]

Middlebury knows they can beat a top ten team with only slightly better play.  Losses hurt, whenever they happen.  Jeff Brown is still trying to find team chemistry without even mentioning ratcheting up some tough defense.  Can't speak for anyone else, but I like where this team is now. 
December will be a useful month.  There are a lot of issues to resolve.
Chances are they'll be ready for January.

[Bucket]

Back home from watching the  Middlebury game.  Hoop Fan found me sitting among the Panther fans on the side facing the team benches.  Remember Hoop from the F & M sectionals two years ago. Sat there eating my lunch and keep my comments to a minimum...mouth full . Mrs Jensen greeted me and made introductions.  Mrs Kissel sat to my left and the St. Amour family was behind me...so what am I going to say .
Enjoyable game to watch...trying to put players to numbers on the Panthers.  Actually not too impressed with the Sea Hawks..guess it is not the Sea Gulls...my bad, I guess. 
Hoop Fan...to my right..mentioned St. Mary was playing better than in the Fri. game.
First, my general impressions of both teams on the floor and maybe some sensitive particulars to follow.
Whatever the level of refs on the floor, there were some hard to understand calls...many of the type with the out of position ref making the call.  There was one when Roberts..no. 55...seemed to make a foul on a driving guard..no. 15...short player.  Number 35 of the Sea Hawks goes to the line..better shooter.  Panther fans calls out that the wrong shooter was on the line...at a critical point in the game.
Told the Jensen's that I felt that the Team will be ok in the games ahead.  Yes, Middlebury has "holes" to fill before they can challenge for the title...inside defense and lack of rebounding from their "bigs" are a few. 
Particulars...mention to "Joey's" mom that her son needs to mentally take some of the pressure off himself.  Coach Brown needs to find an offensive option for Kissel to go to at critical times.  Last second shots to tie or win games is hard for even an All- American player.  Jake Brown may need to be in the game with  Kissel to take the ball handling chores at times.  Kalema is in the game with Toomey for Amherst I believe for that purpose..as teams target Toomey.  Teams will target/shadow Kissel..likewise.  Mentioned to Hoop Fan that maybe Kissel needs to go to the off-guard..2..to be more effective.
St. Mary has a nice team that has quick slashing guards.  They lack size up front and have few low post offensive options.  Really, do not know why they are so highly ranked.
In conclusion, it has been a most interesting early season so far around the D3 BB world.
Final lesson of the day for me...BB moms are louder at games than Dads!

Seems to be a spot-on analysis, Amh63. I, too, expect that when the NESCAC season rolls around, we'll be seeing Brown at the 1 and Joey at the 2. And yes, the webcast and  replays confirmed what you guys saw/suspected when St. Mary's pulled the ole switcheroo on the Roberts foul and subsequent free throws. The broadcasters noticed this right away; it sounds like the fans did, too. Apparently the only folks in the gym who didn't notice were the officials.

Glad you enjoyed the hospitality of the Midd parents. Truly first-class folks

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Both teams played much better. I think we got close to St Mary's best game tonight.  Middlebury certainly has a higher ceiling, but a lot of work to get there. If they can get more aggressive down low, they'll be tough to stop. I agree with amh63, a Brown-Kizel backcourt will serve them well once they can get some of the Freshman follies out of Brown's game.  Getting Jensen back in the lineup soon won't hurt either.

[Vandy74]

Back home from watching the  Middlebury game.  Hoop Fan found me sitting among the Panther fans on the side facing the team benches.  Remember Hoop from the F & M sectionals two years ago. Sat there eating my lunch and keep my comments to a minimum...mouth full . Mrs Jensen greeted me and made introductions.  Mrs Kissel sat to my left and the St. Amour family was behind me...so what am I going to say .
Enjoyable game to watch...trying to put players to numbers on the Panthers.  Actually not too impressed with the Sea Hawks..guess it is not the Sea Gulls...my bad, I guess. 
Hoop Fan...to my right..mentioned St. Mary was playing better than in the Fri. game.
First, my general impressions of both teams on the floor and maybe some sensitive particulars to follow.
Whatever the level of refs on the floor, there were some hard to understand calls...many of the type with the out of position ref making the call.  There was one when Roberts..no. 55...seemed to make a foul on a driving guard..no. 15...short player.  Number 35 of the Sea Hawks goes to the line..better shooter.  Panther fans calls out that the wrong shooter was on the line...at a critical point in the game.
Told the Jensen's that I felt that the Team will be ok in the games ahead.  Yes, Middlebury has "holes" to fill before they can challenge for the title...inside defense and lack of rebounding from their "bigs" are a few. 
Particulars...mention to "Joey's" mom that her son needs to mentally take some of the pressure off himself.  Coach Brown needs to find an offensive option for Kissel to go to at critical times.  Last second shots to tie or win games is hard for even an All- American player.  Jake Brown may need to be in the game with  Kissel to take the ball handling chores at times.  Kalema is in the game with Toomey for Amherst I believe for that purpose..as teams target Toomey.  Teams will target/shadow Kissel..likewise.  Mentioned to Hoop Fan that maybe Kissel needs to go to the off-guard..2..to be more effective.
St. Mary has a nice team that has quick slashing guards.  They lack size up front and have few low post offensive options.  Really, do not know why they are so highly ranked.
In conclusion, it has been a most interesting early season so far around the D3 BB world.
Final lesson of the day for me...BB moms are louder at games than Dads!

Seems to be a spot-on analysis, Amh63. I, too, expect that when the NESCAC season rolls around, we'll be seeing Brown at the 1 and Joey at the 2. And yes, the webcast and  replays confirmed what you guys saw/suspected when St. Mary's pulled the ole switcheroo on the Roberts foul and subsequent free throws. The broadcasters noticed this right away; it sounds like the fans did, too. Apparently the only folks in the gym who didn't notice were the officials.

Glad you enjoyed the hospitality of the Midd parents. Truly first-class folks

I held off posting immediately following the game in part because I expected several posters would say it better than I could AND I had to watch the Giant's play the Boys.   Well that season is over for me.  This one is far from it.  Very good analysis of a team you are not familiar with amh63.  Like Bucket, I am glad you had a chance to meet the Midd parents, although I know you already had met the Jensens.

A few things bothered me about the way the Panthers played this afternoon but again, this is still a team in transition.  In the four competitive games thus far 13 players have seen serious playing time and Jensen, who will average starter's minutes when healthy, is yet to take the court.  Coach Brown is still working on putting his best 10 man rotation together.  Yes, Middlebury could be 5-0.  Yes, it can be argued they should be 4-1.  But all things considered there is nothing wrong with 3-2.  One concern I have is that Jensen has not yet had a chance to see how the new way of calling fouls will force him to adjust his playing style.

Poor foul shooting and telegraphed passes were big problems this afternoon.  Four instances of 0-2 from players who are simply better than that.  One player in particular, much better.  Football has the pick-6.  Basketball has the pick-2.  Too many of the latter today.   And I agree that Kizel, at times, has tried to do too much on his own.  This problem will fix itself as Coach Brown figures out the rotation and those players become more familiar with each other.  He was certainly up to the task at the end of regulation time today.  It was Merryman, whose 21 point effort on Friday was largely overlooked in the disappointing loss to Stevenson, trying to extend the game into a second OT.  Unfortunately his shot didn't go in this time.  More often than not, it will.

The season is young and so is much of the team.  There is more than enough offensive talent to go around.  As Jake Brown gets more playing time, Jensen returns healthy and Roberts gets a better feel for what he can and cannot do with the new way of calling fouls, the nucleus of a decent defense should develop.  The defensive play of the others will also improve with practice.

It's going to be a fun  season.

[middhoops]

Go Vandy!!!!
For a guy who is as self deprecating as you; we celebrate your perspicacity.   I look up to you as one of the clareast thinkers regarding D3 hoopage.  Uno cerveza a Dos Bros por tu.