MBB: NESCAC

formerbant10 · October 31, 2005, 09:04:35 AM

Pat, what were the major reasons that you couldn't get yourself to vote for them? I know there are definitely some very deserving teams, but was last year's under-achievement the main reason for it? Personally, I think they will like not having any votes so they have to go out and earn them. It worked two years ago for them.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) · October 31, 2005, 09:55:08 AM

I think its just that they haven't proven anything. They have talented guys who can show up in some games, but the pre-season poll is all about what the guys you have, have proven and Trinity hasn't strung a season together with this group. I'm not sure it was a slight, but definately some bulletin board material.

formerbant10 · October 31, 2005, 09:21:29 PM

Hoops Fan, I agree....definitely locker room material though. I still hope they will surprise the rest of the voters this year. It all begins for them tomorrow.

senatorfrost · November 01, 2005, 10:57:47 PM

Hamilton and Williams got a few votes. Does anyone think either of those two are as good as Trinity?? I like Amherst but they are VERY overrated based on their losses. I have heard that Rowe, (The Trinity Frosh) is a really top notch prospect, but I suppose we have to wait and see.
Speaking of waiting, once again NESCAC teams are being very academic. Last I looked only Colby had released their roster for this year. The others are waiting for tryouts to be over. Colby is saying, 'Here are our Recruits' The others are going through some sort of pretend game. Hey, if they have tryouts and some Walk Ons make the team, Colby can just add them to the list. The other NESCAC schools could do the same, but of course that would mean getting down to the level of schools like Clark and Harvard etc.
I think the Colby coach should be commended for dropping the pretense. Thank you Sir.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) · November 02, 2005, 12:17:06 PM

Well put, as always, Senator.

formerbant10 · November 02, 2005, 07:59:50 PM

The main reason Trinity does not release their info as early as the others, at least in my experience, is that some of the recruits end up not playing and some non-recruits end up playing. They don't want to waste putting an outlook up in September only to have 2 guys stop playing and 3 different ones make the team. But Trinity did update their outlook much earlier this year (around late Sept.).

I don't know much about Hamilton, they don't play a NESCAC schedule anymore, but I know they are usually at the top of their league so I'm not surprised with them getting votes. Williams did surprise me. They lost a lot from a 6th place team last year. Tucker Kain was their go-to-guy and Jaris Cole was the Defensive POY. Mike Graham was one of the more underrated players in the conference, but they do have some talent coming back. Is it more than Trinity??? I'm not sure. Pretty much everyone who played in their two year reign is gone. Newton didn't have a great year last year, but should do well this year. Rose is a good player, Shalvoy has some tools but needs to learn how to win games. Not easy filling in for Crotty. Williams does get Trinity at home this year, which will help them, but I don't know if they match up to the Bants talent wise.

I think this year will be very different than the past years, the only well known players are Rhoten, Bedford, Petrie, Ray and Stockwell. Some younger players are going to have to step up now that they aren't the young ones anymore.

senatorfrost · November 02, 2005, 09:07:27 PM

By Mid October most coaches have a good idea of who will be on the team and who won't. The players play informally and I would guess that even though the coaches are not supposed to watch, that they talk to the Seniors on their team and also to the players they recruited. I would wager that at some time before November 1st they have a very good idea of what is happening.
I have seen names taken off rosters and once or twice i have seen a name added. How such an event constitutes a big deal is beyond me. I think most, (if not all) NESCAC Schools have SID's who are very adept at taking people on and off and besides if they put up the rosters on say October 22, there would be very very few take offs. They might have to add some walk ons.

formerbant10 · November 03, 2005, 09:30:09 AM

I completely agree with you senator, but some of those coaches have been around a long time and you know what they say about old dogs.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) · November 03, 2005, 10:31:57 AM

You gotta remember voters come from across the country, there is a decent possibility somebody got 23 teams down and had no clue who to put next... enter Williams.

formerbant10 · November 03, 2005, 12:09:56 PM

Helps when you make it to 2 championship games. Maybe they still think Crotty is running the point. Oh well, as we saw last year, the pre-season poll is mostly for locker room talk. Williams and Trinity both were in it last year, and both were way out by the end of the year. Still is fun to see though.

formerbant10 · November 08, 2005, 04:49:52 PM

Any news on how the first few days of practice have been going?

nescac1 · November 08, 2005, 05:07:22 PM

Both Amherst and Williams have season previews posted.

Amherst looks absolutely stacked. They have a ton of depth with Corrigan returning to back up the point, the addition of the Div I transfer, and about six capable big guys, including Hopkins who I think will be a real force by next year. They won't have the same sort of shooting as last year, but are still offensively explosive, and with O'Shea/Hopkins replacing Schiel and Coulibaly replacing Lee, they are MUCH bigger and tougher on the boards -- a team like Rochester will have a much tougher time against them this year. Other than Trinity, every team in the league will be a HUGE underdog against them this year. Even Bates, who had two great players, graduated too much to really challenge Amherst.

Williams could be in for a tough year. The season preview said Newton is coming off knee surgery, if he is at full strength, Williams should have a strong interior game with Newton, Kuntz, and Weisbrot, but if Newton is not 100 percent, they are in big trouble, as he is the only potential all-league player. It looks like Leary is not playing this year, which REALLY hurts front-court depth. Only three big guys with any experience on the roster, and two have injury concerns. Williams does have a ton of 2-guards on the roster, but most are frosh and sophomores, they will need a few of those guys to equal the production of Cole and Graham (very possible on offense, on defense, unlikely) to have a chance of cracking the top 3-4 in the league. Williams should be fine at the point this year, steadier than last year, but no real difference makers there. In the best case scenario, Williams has a dominant Newton with support from Kuntz and Weisbrot, with few teams in the league having the experienced size to stop them (given that Tufts, Wesleyan, Amherst, Bowdoin, Middlebury all graduated stellar bigs), and then Williams has a wealth of outside shooters (Gibbons, Rose, Nelson, and a few of the frosh 2's) to punish teams who double. The problem is, Williams looks small, inexperienced, and not terribly athletic on the perimeter, so if the offense is not able to run from the inside out and they have to rely too heavily on guards to be the creators, it will be a LONG season. I'd say, depending on the health of the big guys and the contributions of the frosh swingmen, Williams could finish anywhere from 3rd in the league to 7th. On paper, they seem pretty even with Bowdoin, Tufts and Colby.

nescacfan99 · November 09, 2005, 07:16:51 PM

Great Post Nescac 1.

I agree with your projections on both Amherst and Williams. Further if Leary really doesn't come out for the team after the soccer season they will have lost their best interior defender by far.

I seem to remember last year that Leary wasn't on the team and maybe even not on the roster until after Thanksgiving so maybe he will still play.

I don't see how Willaims will win 20 this year. How the mighty have fallen.

toad22 · November 09, 2005, 08:25:26 PM

Williams is very low on talent or experience this year, and it only gets worse next year. There are no top tier juniors on the squad, so next year will be a really young team. Williams fans like me will have to satisfy ourselves with rooting for our team to continue to improve and maybe get an occasional upset over the Jeffs, Bants, or other top team.
As far as the NESCAC goes, I see Trinity and Amherst on top, and Bates not far behind.

formerbant10 · November 09, 2005, 08:48:21 PM

I agree with Trinity and Amherst as the top two. The game in January decides who hosts the tournament because the rest of the conference schedule is much easier this year. I see Tufts and Bates being right behind those two. I like Cohen from Colby, I don't know if he had a great summer or not like he did last year, but I think he's the best post player not named Tyler Rhoten. Petrie is going to have to carry Bowdoin again, but he'll have a little more help this year. Williams could really struggle if Newton isn't healthy. Wesleyan might struggle w/o Kelly, but they have always pulled out some games no one thought they could. Middlebury will be in the same place as last year. I heard a rumor that Charles Stone was no longer at Conn, no idea if there is any truth to that at all. I was hoping someone else could tell me if that's true. If so, it could be a very long year for Conn.
As for the NESCAC dominating New England, I don't think the conference is as far ahead as it was for the past few years. It'll be interesting to see how many teams get in with 17 pool C bids this year. I suspect both Trinity and Bates would have gotten in last year with that many Pool C's.
Only two weekends till the first games, I'm getting excited to hear how my Bants do.