MBB: NESCAC

[jayhawk]

As far as the  Amherst -Middlebury game and fan's reaction to calls

Unfortunately the refs missed/messed up a ton of calls on both sides. So both sides had reason to be upset. In one minor example there was a play where Middlebury shot the ball and then the rebound caromed off the rim. Nabaotff tried to get the ball but he was held for a few seconds for all to see but no call was made. Happenned to both sides so I think inconsistently of calls were a major frustration for fans of both Middlebury and Amherst.

Middlebury like Williams and Amherst travel with an impressive number of fans.

As far as calls on Toomey I do not remember every detail but sometimes he does get frustrated and  responds by making a foolish foul - that was the second call. I think the first foul was a poor call but I do not remember every detail. I know that Toomey like all players can act to enhance the potential for fouls. But that said having watched teams play Toomey there is no doubt that teams tend to body him up in the hopes of stopping him. In earlier years he did not have the lower body strength to maintain his position.

[jayhawk]

Last comment I think video is fine to watch games but often does not provide the angles to really see the genesis and details of fouls.

All this said the refs did not determine the outcome of the game. 

Hixon detailed how much he likes D3 ball on his Hoopsville interview.

Looking forward to Nescac games in the coming weeks.

[jayhawk]

Moving the conversation to a more positive light
Of course I enjoy watch the stars of high school being stars in college
However one  of the things I most love about NESCAC BBall is the development of solid high school players into better, even starring, college players. The beauty of NESCAC is that in the absence of scholarships players have an opportunity to develop.

Middlebury has done an excellent job here, notably the string of big men including Ryan Sharry, etc
Bowdoin is doing that with John Swords, who was a volleyball player in high school ( note his sister was 6'6" ball star who started for BC)

Amherst is doing that with Kalema and Killian

There are many other examples-

[30 for 30]

Madz. So Hart scores 100 in those games DR scores 53 and you're talking shooting %. Really? Hart was playing the role his coach, a voter, required. His contributions helped to win a game and keep the other three competitive deep into the second half. Hart does not have the luxury of deferring to two teammates who are previous All NESCAC selections who were also pre season All American selections for this season. Hart is doing his job and well. Coach Maker, another voter, made his feelings known publicly about what he thinks of Hart. The Conts will take the 47 additional points.

[Bucket]

Fun conversation.

Ryan Sharry is an excellent example of this, as he was lightly recruited (I know of another NESCAC coach who told Sharry and his family that he had an A list of recruits and a B list of recruits and Sharry was on the B list) and he grew into a first team All American.

Peter Lynch also really developed over the course of his four years. He played scant minutes his freshman and sophomore years, yet was one of the most valuable players on the team by his senior year. He worked really hard, had terrific coaching, and also the luxury (and patience) to sit and learn behind Andrew Locke, Jamal Davis, Ryan Sharry.

The gold standard for me, though, is Nolan Thompson. He wasn't lightly recruited...he wasn't recruited at all. A D3 walk on. After being accepted to Middlebury, he reached out to the basketball program and asked about trying out for the team. From what I understand, it took all of one pickup game in the fall for the Midd captains and players to go to Coach Brown to let him know that a heck of a player would be joining the program. He started from day 1.

[nescac1]

Middhoops, thanks, you are far too kind!

re: Robinson/Hart, last comments I will have on this: I don't think performance against top teams is irrelevant, if the aggregate conference performance is otherwise a close call.  But here, it is not close -- Robinson's in-conference play has been CLEARLY superior over the course of the NESCAC season to Hart's, in almost every respect, so focusing on a smaller subset of games is simply not required.  Robinson's offensive efficiency is absolutely insane.  And 30 for 30 continues to totally ignore one very important aspect of the game -- defense -- where Robinson makes major contributions, and Hart seemingly does not.  Finally, I will note again that Robinson's play has dramatically improved over the course of the season, so more heavily weighing games from early in the conference schedule is a bit unfair to him.  30 for 30 keeps citing to a comment by Coach Maker about Hart -- Coach Maker is typically effusive about opposing players who play well against Williams.  If Coach Maker was totally candid about Duncan Robinson, I can only imagine what he would say ...

Again, I do think Hart is worthy of first-team all-NESCAC, and deserves all the praise that he receives.  But to suggest that he is in the same league as Toomey at THIS point in his career is just silly, and again, for reasons I and others have stated I'd put him behind Robinson, Mayer and Kizel as well.  But I do think that he is going to be a multiple-year all-NESCAC guy and a future all-American as well. 

I agree with others re: fun to watch guys who were not particularly highly-regarded growing over time.  Although Tom Killian has improved dramatically over his four years, I don't think I would include him in that category as he was considered to be, if memory serves, a top recruit, maybe he just didn't have the same opportunities to shine with guys like Workman, Williamson, Waller and Barrise playing ahead of him on the wing. 

David Kalema is an entirely different story -- he was always a great athlete, but I'm not sure that anyone saw him developing into the kind of player he became based on his high school performance, and I don't think he was considered to be a major recruit.  His shooting (both from three and the line), ball-handling, and decision-making are all worlds better than the out-of-control whirling dervish of a player that he was as an underclassman.  He has clearly worked very hard on his game. 

I can't really think of anyone at Williams who fits into that category, at least not recently.  Other than his first year as a coach, Maker can only bring in a few (between 2-4) recruits, so there isn't a lot of room for guys with a lot of upside who perhaps will need a few years to develop --guys typically will need to be able to make an impact fairly early on, especially because Maker emphasizes basketball skills over athleticism, in my opinion.  And Williams has not been fortunate (or astute) enough to have any non-recruited players, two-sport athletes, etc. make a major impact in the Maker era.  Although I do think Darias Sime (whose primary sport is football) may play an important role as an upperclassman. 

[GingerBaker]

Nescac1 - was Troy Whittington a highly regarded recruit?  I remember reading something about his recruiting story - mentioned how the Ivy schools for some reason looked askance at all his extra-curriculars, of all things - but I couldn't remember whether he was a big deal coming in.  He didn't play much his first 2 years.  I know he got hurt his freshman season...

Found this interesting story about his development.  I'm sure someone on this board has read it, but when I got curious about Whittington's early career I did a few minutes of research.  Here's the link: http://ephsports.williams.edu/sports/mbkb/2010-11/releases/20110228k4vsfc

We all know his impact as an upperclassman - particularly his monstrous senior season - but I was wondering whether you or anyone else had any insight into his recruitment/status etc.  I don't know enough about him or Williams to say but (and this article helps explain some of his non-play) he turned out to be a major force, particularly for a player who hadn't logged much time in the first half of his career.

[GingerBaker]

Reply to myself - former Eph coach Paulsen told Troy he could be a star, but after the coaching change he had to make some adjustments to Maker's style/player priorities - so that's something...

[nescac1]

I think Troy was fairly highly-regarded.  He absolutely dominated his prep school league for several years.  There were certainly some questions about him in light of, as you mention, interests other than hoops, lack of optimal height for the position (even at D3) and the fact that he played a low level of competition in high school.  But he was certainly the top Williams recruit in the class of 2011, and while I'm not sure anyone would have predicted just how good he became by his senior year, his talent level was undeniable in high school.  I know I'm not alone among Eph fans to still wonder to this day how the 2011 Final Four would have turned out had he not been playing with a broken hand ... I think that James Wang was actually a bigger surprise than Whittington.  There was another PG recruit who received more buzz than Wang, who ended up playing in the Patriot League after Paulsen left.  I don't know that anyone saw Wang as a multiple-year all-American when he was recruited.  So perhaps he is the best example of a guy really exceeding his expectations at Williams. 

[GingerBaker]

Interesting. 

In a kind of similar vein, Workman was, in some ways, a suprise.  He was an unknown quantity to a lot of people - he basically didn't play his last two years in high school, but did do a PG year where I recall he was a big time scorer.  I heard Williams had reached out to him but for whatever reason chose not to pursue him beyond initial contact.  I guess that worked out in Amherst's favor.

Of course there's always the opposite situation - highly regarded recruits who, for whatever reason, don't seem to pan out.  I feel like that's much more common.  I won't put names up, because there are all sorts of reasons careers don't match expectations, but there are quite a few examples popping up in my head.

[amh63]

Consider this a "quiet period" ....the eye of the storm....before the posts begin on the key games this weekend.  Therefore will like to to post on the impact of announcers on me while watching on-line games...D3 games.
Has it been 9 pages of posting...ago that I stated I would do this....wow...we do talk at length here....me included.  Anyway, here goes...hoping to hear from posters on their thoughts on the topic.
I have watched games from the UAA...WashU in particular....the LEC and recently the dreaded midwest schools.  All have  single announcers...some have teams with a "color" person to add local flavor.  They are professional in their cover of the games and are quite informative on players and coaches....the part I enjoy most.  In our beloved NESCAC, we have had mixed bag of announcers....mainly non professional....students really....who I sometimes prefer to turn the audio off while watching.  Lately, with the addition of NSN webcast...we have gone to another level for me....though Amherst still has students do the broadcasts and imo have been good when they show up.  Partly in defense of student announcers, I do enjoy their local color comments and particulars about the players....if they understand BB and attempt to be impartial.  As the recent announcers stated...they are one call away from being fired.  I enjoy their outburst when a player flushes down a bucket.  I recognize that it may annoy the opponent viewers but it illustrates the normal reaction of the students....though I prefer a simple layup.  Another example....in the Middlebury WBB game, not really a close game, the announcers doing their homework pointed out that the leading scorer for the Panthers was a soccer star....a top player in the conference.....but Amherst had defended her well in soccer and seemed to be doing so in the game.  I like that info and focused my attention to the Middlebury player quite often in an otherwise not competative game.  The announcers, athletes themselves, praised the sophmores on the Amherst team because they were sophmores.   Last example.....in the MBB game.  I did learn about the "euro" step, a pro term?, when J. Brown made a drive.  Near the end of the game when Coach Brown was putting in bench players...the announcers pointed out that Tom Killian, the captain, made a foul.....in order that the likewise Amherst bench players could be inserted.  Nice gesture.....liked that info...caught my attention....saw who was being put in as the players lined up for the foul shots by Middlebury.  Do not remember if the foul shots were made or missed.

Now to the professional announcers of the NSN games....in particular the two recent Bowdoin games...against Amherst and Middlebury.  Who could forget them. 
In the Bowdoin games in Maine, there was a "color" man that was good except for shouting "Bang?Bam" whenever, a Bowdoin player made a 3-point shot.  Like the energy, etc....but it became annoying after watching both the women and men's game.  Yes the men's game had many Polar Bear make 3-point shots...it was Senior Day!  Liked the info that Swords has a way of talking to the refs whenever he is called for a foul....looking down and the ref up attentatively.  I looked for those discussions by Swords in the Middlebury game.  The major bit of info I picked up from the announcers in both games....was the primary one the same NSN announcer?...was that announcers would keep track of the time outs by the coaches.  Found that professional announcers in other conferences often do that.  Anyway, in the Bowdoin game, it was pointed out that the P'Bear dcoach was calling a number of TOs, while Coach Hixon had not...especially in the 2nd half.  I though about it as the game was quite competative.  I thought, it was because Aaron was on the floor and Hixon had complete faith in him to make the right descisions, etc.  Hixon did make a TO call near the end.  The announcer pointed out that the P'Bear coach was yelling for a TO during the three shot attempt to tie the game but was not heard.
We all have posted about the TOs situation and the Technical call  on Bowdoin that helped win the game for the Panthers.  The announcer on the webcast kept track of Time Outs.  I wondered for a little while, if the refs in the Amherst game ignored the Bowdoin coach at the end of the game....because he did not want to call a technical foul.  Thought about going to the NSN achieves of the game and count the time outs in the 2nd half.  I have learned to watch other things that I do not normally do like coach behavior during games.

In summary, I found that the announcers to games on-line have enhanced my enjoyment of the games.  The good ones and even some bad ones.  The annoying ones, I can turn off the audio

[Bucket]

Interesting. 

I heard Williams had reached out to him but for whatever reason chose not to pursue him beyond initial contact.  I guess that worked out in Amherst's favor.

That's not true. He visited Williams—an official recruiting visit, with pick-ups games, player hosting, etc.

[grabtherim]

Fun conversation.

Ryan Sharry is an excellent example of this, as he was lightly recruited (I know of another NESCAC coach who told Sharry and his family that he had an A list of recruits and a B list of recruits and Sharry was on the B list) and he grew into a first team All American.

Peter Lynch also really developed over the course of his four years. He played scant minutes his freshman and sophomore years, yet was one of the most valuable players on the team by his senior year. He worked really hard, had terrific coaching, and also the luxury (and patience) to sit and learn behind Andrew Locke, Jamal Davis, Ryan Sharry.

The gold standard for me, though, is Nolan Thompson. He wasn't lightly recruited...he wasn't recruited at all. A D3 walk on. After being accepted to Middlebury, he reached out to the basketball program and asked about trying out for the team. From what I understand, it took all of one pickup game in the fall for the Midd captains and players to go to Coach Brown to let him know that a heck of a player would be joining the program. He started from day 1.

Bucket we both know of another guy who wanted to go to one school in the league badly, and they all but told him he couldn't play in the conference, only to be burned by him over the next four years.

[madzillagd]

I like the mix of one pro announcer and one student personally.  The announcer should be focused on calling the game and having the student analyst they can provide fun facts and often know the history of the team a bit better.  P'Bear can confirm but I got the impression that the Bowdoin announcer has been doing the games there for awhile because he definitely has more of a homer call to his games than the NSN crews you hear during the Midd & Williams games. 

As for the Euro step, you didn't see one if I remember the play correctly - I think the announcer misspoke.  Brown did a step to a jump stop then finished.  Back when we were all kids that used to be a travel but in today's game they allow you to take a step and land with two feet as long as the foot that you step with is not the first to land again (here it is explained if you really want to know (http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2014/01/23/making-the-call-hop-travel.nba/)  That is the move that Brown did I believe.

A true Euro step you don't land on both feet, rather you take one step one direction and the next step the other direction - basically a zigzag which you can check out here ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqx7OqmJpL8 )

[Bucket]

Fun conversation.

Ryan Sharry is an excellent example of this, as he was lightly recruited (I know of another NESCAC coach who told Sharry and his family that he had an A list of recruits and a B list of recruits and Sharry was on the B list) and he grew into a first team All American.

Peter Lynch also really developed over the course of his four years. He played scant minutes his freshman and sophomore years, yet was one of the most valuable players on the team by his senior year. He worked really hard, had terrific coaching, and also the luxury (and patience) to sit and learn behind Andrew Locke, Jamal Davis, Ryan Sharry.

The gold standard for me, though, is Nolan Thompson. He wasn't lightly recruited...he wasn't recruited at all. A D3 walk on. After being accepted to Middlebury, he reached out to the basketball program and asked about trying out for the team. From what I understand, it took all of one pickup game in the fall for the Midd captains and players to go to Coach Brown to let him know that a heck of a player would be joining the program. He started from day 1.

Bucket we both know of another guy who wanted to go to one school in the league badly, and they all but told him he couldn't play in the conference, only to be burned by him over the next four years.

Yep. Wasn't the quote "You can't play at this level"?