MBB: NESCAC

[GnacBballFan]

Thanks NESCAC appreciate the kind words. Dave I questioned albertus northeast ranking from the first week they were released til the last. However my gripe was always that we shoulda been right after Amherst and Williams. Never that we shoulda been ahead of them. I think after the ncaa showing that gripe kinda makes sense, as albertus, Amherst, and Williams were the only teams in the region to get to the sweet 16. And I think albertus lost to maybe the second best team in the country last night, and certainly a top 5 team

Though compare the AMC result w/Middlebury's two games with Williams. The Ephs weren't putting up 110 on the Panthers. Or look at the Tufts-Williams overtime game in the first round of the NESCAC tournament.

Just being on the same court with Williams doesn't justify being "right after" a Williams or an Amherst in the rankings. You have to be competitive.

Bucket, im not saying albertus is right after them bc they were on the court together. Albertus lost by 18 and Williams controlled the game no doubt. But albertus cut it to 7 with about 7 to go. They played most of the game without big Vic and Watson had maybe his worst game ever at albertus. I'll credit the Williams D on that. But I'm talking about this yrs northeast rankings, albertus beat wpi and then the east regions 1st ranked team while the newmac got ousted in the first round. So after Williams and Amherst albertus was right there imo

[GnacBballFan]

Exactly NESCAC, much better said then me. Don't just look at the score and think albertus was a fluke bucket. Williams was the better team, but albertus was no fluke, anyone who saw them play I think realized this. If anything it'll motivate coach Oliver to get even more talent in around eian davis and company next yr. good luck to the ephs!

[grabtherim]

I watched the game last night and also in 2012 when Albertus played Midd in the NCAAs.  I have no doubt Albertus is a good team.  That said, they have played NESCAC teams in two of the last three NCAA tournaments and lost by a combined 32 points (16 to Midd and the same to Williams)  All the talk in the world cant get in the way of facts. 

[JustAFan]

Hindsight always clarifies things, but if regional rankings were done today based on tournament results to-date, I'd have Amherst/Williams/Middlebury/AMC as the top 4 teams in New England. The tournament confirmed that the NEWMAC was overrated this year and received more credit in the rankings than it deserved, and AMC's tournament play confirmed that it's legit and deserving of more respect than its schedule or league may suggest.  I for one did not feel the game was over at halftime last night, and I knew AMC had the talent to come back, which they did.  The game was called tightly both ways, and consistently so (but the number of palming calls and moving pick calls had me wondering if the refs thought they were doing a middle school game rather than a college game) but had the game been called a little looser (as the WPI/AMC game was), it might have been a nailbiter.

Nescac1, I could not agree more with your comment that the end of the year Middlebury team was one of the top teams in New England.  They would have made some noise in the tournament had they had the opportunity to play, hence my love for them in my fantasy rankings above even though most folks will think I'm nuts in this regard.

Frank hit it on the head with his analysis of tonight's Williams game: can Williams grab a lead and keep the crowd out of the game?  The Ephs experience playing on the road before packed houses at Amherst and Middlebury hopefully will be helpful. I think they once again need to attack the rim and go TO the basket, where they have a height advantage, and not settle for 3's.  They are  a much better team when they attack the rim, but historically Williams teams have won based on their outside game. This team needs to understand its unique strengths, which are their big guy down low and their size on the wings coupled with the ability of those wing players to handle the  ball and drive the hoop. They also can shoot the 3, but not like prior Williams teams.  If they stay within their strengths, they will be very competitive tonight.

[JustAFan]

PS--Duncan Robinson came up hobbling at the end of the game on a hard foul.  It looked like his knee more than his ankle. The announcers seemed oblivious to it. He hit 2 free throws in obvious pain, and then was taken out. Hopefully it does not slow him down a step tonight.

[GnacBballFan]

Hindsight always clarifies things, but if regional rankings were done today based on tournament results to-date, I'd have Amherst/Williams/Middlebury/AMC as the top 4 teams in New England. The tournament confirmed that the NEWMAC was overrated this year and received more credit in the rankings than it deserved, and AMC's tournament play confirmed that it's legit and deserving of more respect than its schedule or league may suggest.  I for one did not feel the game was over at halftime last night, and I knew AMC had the talent to come back, which they did.  The game was called tightly both ways, and consistently so (but the number of palming calls and moving pick calls had me wondering if the refs thought they were doing a middle school game rather than a college game) but had the game been called a little looser (as the WPI/AMC game was), it might have been a nailbiter.

Nescac1, I could not agree more with your comment that the end of the year Middlebury team was one of the top teams in New England.  They would have made some noise in the tournament had they had the opportunity to play, hence my love for them in my fantasy rankings above even though most folks will think I'm nuts in this regard.

Frank hit it on the head with his analysis of tonight's Williams game: can Williams grab a lead and keep the crowd out of the game?  The Ephs experience playing on the road before packed houses at Amherst and Middlebury hopefully will be helpful. I think they once again need to attack the rim and go TO the basket, where they have a height advantage, and not settle for 3's.  They are  a much better team when they attack the rim, but historically Williams teams have won based on their outside game. This team needs to understand its unique strengths, which are their big guy down low and their size on the wings coupled with the ability of those wing players to handle the  ball and drive the hoop. They also can shoot the 3, but not like prior Williams teams.  If they stay within their strengths, they will be very competitive tonight.

Perfectly said

[amh63]

Spent a little time this morning "researching" Morrisville State.  Interesting that a main campus is near Hamilton.  Richard Stockton's HBC mention that the team has a number of NYC type players....true....but two of the big scorers last night are guards from Syracruse, NY.  The team shot the lights out last night.  Cannot recall much about the particulars of the offensive style....probably due to my switching to the Amherst WBB game.  Oh well, will not make any fortune cookie prediction on the game.....just sit back and watch the game....hoping for a win for Amherst without any injuries, etc.

Do want to point out some loose end observations to board posters about games watched last night.
The Amherst announcers did notice some unique footware/shoes of the Cardinals.  I noticed that both Toomey and Kalema have been wearing "lowcut" Nike shoes lately.  Also noticed that Toomey was "knocked down" from behind a number of times.  Was it possible that defenders were trying to steal the ball from behind?  Toomey was getting defensive attention indeed....appeared a little tight....had 7 turnovers.  Smart move by the Plattsburg HBC.  Toomey had 4 TOs in last year's when he lead Amherst to a win with 26 points.

Did notice the nice cheerleaders from UMW during the games from Fredricksburg, Va.  Enjoyed the back and forth 2nd game.  Like many posters here, watched the Emory vs UW-SP game for a time.  Expected Stevens Point to hold on, considering Emory was not the AQ from the UAA, etc.   Even watch a bit of the IWU vs Calvin game.  For an "outsider". was confused by the score board on-line showing Titans and Devils.  Had to go by school colors and the fact that Calvin would not have "Red Devils" as a mascot.

[madzillagd]

I think if the rankings were done today WPI would still be ahead of AMC quite frankly.  AMC obviously went farther in the tournament and those 2 extra games would help their SOS, but I think WPI's numbers might still be higher (not sure if anyone has a way to figure it out).  AMC supporters are pointing to the 2 wins as the definite proof that they were not ranked high enough, but keep in mind it was a 2 pt victory over WPI, it isn't like they blew them out. For sure AMC would likely move ahead of some of the NEWMAC teams but not sure if they would move ahead of all of them.  They played 3 opponents in the tournament: 1 we knew they could beat and they did, 1 they squeezed out a 2 pt win, the last they got beat by a wide margin. Just trying to be a little more objective about it based on what we saw from the rankings from the committee.

As for the game last night, it unfolded pretty much how I thought it would except for the margin of victory.  All week my brother was telling me how talented the AMC team was (and they were) because he had seen the videos but not watched them play. My counter to that was the fact that they tend to play as individuals and not as a team.  That's where I thought WPI was able to stay with them despite not having many offensive weapons.  I sent my bro a text 2 mins into the game last night that simply said: the teamwork lasted exactly 3 possessions.  AMC came down, moved the ball and got 3 assists on their first 3 shots. The 4th trip down they shot a questionable 3 and after that it was 1:1 the rest of the game.  3 assists on their first 3 possessions, 8 assists for the rest of the game.  That to me was the difference in the game. 

To take that next step I think AMC has to learn to play together as a team. To do that I think they need to play better competition during the year.  It's tough to identify what your weaknesses are when you are blowing everybody out by 20+ every game.  I think the Williams team learned more about winning big games by losing to Amherst 3 times than AMC probably did from any of their many wins.  Although they lose a big piece next year, they could be a better team than this year if they play better as a team and rely on each other a bit more.

[middhoops]

Justafan, +k for great analysis.
amh63, I'm getting worried about your cheer leader fetish.  Does your wife know?

Albertus Magnus is better than the score indicated.  They ran into a buzz saw. 
The NESCAC teams are looking very strong heading toward Salem.
I think nescac1 and I will be resuming our comparisons of IWU to the western Mass schools shortly.  (sorry, but it's been a pm discussion up til now.)

[amh63]

Middhoops....My wife is the least of my worries...at the moment.  Just read a post of one of the games last night.  Dickerson is called the Red Devils.  Calvin are known as the Knights and IWU are called the Titans.  Seems I cannot remember how many games I scanned last night...confusing the mascots......and colors even.   Am going to go read a book and maybe take a nap.  Early dinner this evening.

Was going to try to make a witty remark about my cheerleader point...not fetish, my friend.....but my wife of almost 50 years knows me too well and still has her "cheerleader" good looks and figure. 

[AncientSonOfHixon]

George, since Pollack got injured, has really stepped up his game, and has been key to Amherst's continued success.  Having an elite rim protector makes life so much easier for other defenders, and I think that George will go down as the best rim protector in NESCAC history.  Since postseason play began (NESCAC and NCAA), George has averaged around 9 points, 10 boards, and over FIVE blocks per game.  Wow.  It's like having Dikembe Mutombo in his prime out there. 

Ditto here, with extreme prejudice. As amh63 also wrote, George may have done more to determine the outcome of last night's game than anyone else on the Jeffs. The box credits him with NINE blocks, but it seemed like more, and in any case he altered far more than that. In the first ten minutes he completely demoralized Plattsburgh's inside scorers--just too much length and instinct for a small team, no matter how athletic (and Plattsburgh has some great athletes). This was flat-out the best game I've seen George play. He's learned to avoid the foul trouble that plagued him early in the year (and right now i'm knocking on wood, btw; kicking the sh*t out of some wood, actually, so let's keep that no-foul-trouble thing on the down-low for now, please), and he seems to have grown in stamina and confidence (his NESCAC finals game against Williams is another example). He's really come on. The LJs don't need a single point from him, frankly, if he can hold up inside like he has been. Here's to another night of it. Tonight, specifically. Please.

[AncientSonOfHixon]

and while i'm at it . . . . As much as I'm looking forward to tonight and the hoped-for LJ step to Salem, this evening in LeFrak is gonna be awfully bittersweet, as well—that classic NESCAC fan experience of seeing seniors in person for the last time after having watched them grow up. What a thrill it's been to see Killian make The Leap, and see Kalema live up to the promise he showed last year, and even to see Gach, who hadn't gotten any run at all in his career til now, fill a role and make some very big buckets (not to mention post the bizarre 3s-and-nothing-but-3s stat line that nescac1 called out).

And then of course there's Toomey. It would be foolish to say he's gone underappreciated—whether by the D3 community generally or even by opponent fans writing on this board—but what's been most amazing to those of us who've seen most of his games this season is how much better he is than last year. It's astonishing, really. And I think he's become so taken for granted that I'm not sure people have noticed.

Simple numbers tell part of the story:

   Last year: 17.3 ppg; 44/42/89 shooting; 4.8 rebs; 5.0 assists; 1.3 steals; Nat'l Champ
   This year: 20.1 ppg; 47/40/91 shooting; 5.1 rebs; 6.5 assists; 2.0 steals; Elite 8 so far

For those without their calculators at hand, that would 16% more scoring coupled with 30% more assists, 54% more steals, more rebounds and higher true shooting than he managed in a season when he was national POY. All in a current year when the pressure on him is exponentially greater than last season and when no player in the country has a bigger bulls-eye on his back.

(Toomey's 3pt % is the only down number, but his 40% is incredibly elite given that he takes the hardest 3's in the NESCAC—everything off the dribble, usually from several feet beyond the arc, not a spot-up jumper or corner 3 in the lot.)

As much improved as the #s are, though, it's Toomey's intangibles that are even more noticeable, this year over last. His control of a game, his decisions about when to look for his own offense, and especially his enormously improved strength with the ball and in traffic (which other posters have commented on). Last night Plattsburgh hounded him better than any NESCAC team—Manning in particular was impressive—and in past years Toomey might not have held up. This year he not only takes contact but takes advantage of it.

There are even two #s that bear that out. This year Toomey is getting to the line 40% more than last year (currently 6.7ft/gm) and, ridiculously, is shooting 33% better from 2pt range than last year (currently 61% inside the arc). Now he gets to the basket and either finishes or creates free throws, instead of getting unbalanced or swallowed.

I'm not sure I can recall an already elite player improving this much in his final year (would love to hear of other examples). Man, it has been fun to watch.

If any of you are in LeFrak range but weren't planning on making the trip, there's still time to change your mind. Last chance, friends, last chance.

[magicman]

Dickinson... amh63... Dickinson.   

Dickerson is where you try and get the seller to take less money for his wares than he wants to take,  so you dicker with his son when the son is minding the store.

[magicman]

George, since Pollack got injured, has really stepped up his game, and has been key to Amherst's continued success.  Having an elite rim protector makes life so much easier for other defenders, and I think that George will go down as the best rim protector in NESCAC history.  Since postseason play began (NESCAC and NCAA), George has averaged around 9 points, 10 boards, and over FIVE blocks per game.  Wow.  It's like having Dikembe Mutombo in his prime out there. 

Ditto here, with extreme prejudice. As amh63 also wrote, George may have done more to determine the outcome of last night's game than anyone else on the Jeffs. The box credits him with NINE blocks, but it seemed like more, and in any case he altered far more than that. In the first ten minutes he completely demoralized Plattsburgh's inside scorers--just too much length and instinct for a small team, no matter how athletic (and Plattsburgh has some great athletes). This was flat-out the best game I've seen George play. He's learned to avoid the foul trouble that plagued him early in the year (and right now i'm knocking on wood, btw; kicking the sh*t out of some wood, actually, so let's keep that no-foul-trouble thing on the down-low for now, please), and he seems to have grown in stamina and confidence (his NESCAC finals game against Williams is another example). He's really come on. The LJs don't need a single point from him, frankly, if he can hold up inside like he has been. Here's to another night of it. Tonight, specifically. Please.

Everything the three of you said about David George is true and I agree he was the determining factor in last night's game more than anybody.  (although Tom Killian's  22 points and 10 rebounds was also pretty huge) Let's not forget that David George also was the leading scorer for the LJ's at halftime with 12 points (double his season average) on a perfect 5x5 from the field and 2x2 from the line He also had 7 rebounds, 4 blocks, an assist, and a steal at the break. The 20 point halftime lead was largely due to his dominance of the 1st period.

The Cardinals' Coach Curle said afterward that  "Amherst was very good and with their starting five it was pick your poison."  Our small forward John Perez who did manage 16 points, mostly on the interior said "we've played against tall teams all year (see MIT, Middlebury, etc) and in the 2nd half I was able to make some moves and get inside, but he still had nine blocks against us."

I thought that the loss of Willy Workman, Big Pete and Alan Williamson would rank this Amherst team a notch below last year's National Champions even though, as midhoops can testify, I was pretty high on the LJ's back in early January. However, after watching them drain 3 pointer after 3 pointer, whenever my Cardinals cut into that lead, and with the interior play of George, I think  this year's Amherst team is every bit as good as last year's variety, and maybe even better.     

[middhoops]

I will testify that magicman was calculatedly high on the LJs in early January.  Stop snickering, mm.