MBB: NESCAC

[middhoops]

Still savoring the Ephs great season ---and epic win over amHerst on the big stage ....the most perfect game planned, coached, and executed for 40 minutes seen in d3 for many years.

This can't go unanswered, can it?

[Mr. Ypsi]

Still savoring the Ephs great season ---and epic win over amHerst on the big stage ....the most perfect game planned, coached, and executed for 40 minutes seen in d3 for many years.

This can't go unanswered, can it?

I was there as a neutral observer (fan of IWU).  Since Amherst had already beaten Williams three times, I'm not sure anything in the final phrases was overhyped.  THAT was a butt-whoopin'!

If the Ephs could have found a way to play like that every game, they would have been undefeated national champs.  My only quibble might be with 'great season', compared with what might have been!  At the end of the season, Mike Mayer was hands-down the best player in the country (though he probably didn't deserve the award on a full season basis), and Duncan Robinson is likely a future national POY unless Mike Greenman beats him out!

(Note that this is based on only one or two webcast views, plus Friday in Salem; I may [or may not] be getting carried away by freakishly good performances.)

[booyakasha]

Still savoring the Ephs great season ---and epic win over amHerst on the big stage ....the most perfect game planned, coached, and executed for 40 minutes seen in d3 for many years.

This can't go unanswered, can it?

Yeah come on guys!!! Surely there has to have been a game in which Midd performed better than Williams during the AMH/WLMS game in question.

Where is Old Guy to tell us about a time back in the fifties when Midd's JV squad beat someone by the same margin without the shot clock, 3 point line, or GPA Inflation?

Where is Bucket to remind us that the 2011 Midd team played equally as well during the NESCAC championship, but were far more humble than those showboaters from Williams?

Where is Panthernation to demonstrate using advanced metrics that Midd performed better during a 2-point loss at Bowdoin in 2006 (led my MVP of the world Ben Rudin) than Williams did against Amherst last month?

(I kid, Midd supporters, I kid)

[amh63]

Middhoops....trying to stir things up on this board?

Mr. Ypsi....should have come over to the purple side and looked me up...would have bought you a drink and introduced you to some Amherst fans...even Walzy...maybe...he left with several of his All American buddies.   Maybe next season with IWU and Amherst in the Final 4 again?

Respond to Jumpshot?   Best to leave the poster have his happy thoughts.
Me, I look at the bigger picture....Amherst's three straight conference titles, another national title and eight straight wins over Williams...two in the conference title games.  Heck, this has been a unique year in basketball...at all levels.
This is the first year in NBA history that the LA lakers, Boston Celtics and NY Knicks have not gone to the playoffs..all were eliminated!
In 2004,  the UConn men's and women's teams both went to the final 4 and both won championships.  A decade later, they repeated that epic feat...in 2014.
In 2004, Williams beat Amherst in the semi final game and lost to a UW team by 2 points in the title game.  That sequence of events repeated in  2014 in Salem.  Williams played a great game...finally against Amherst. 

My younger son was down for the weekend and helped his father..me...set up my flat screen to get webcasts of conference sporting events...and achieve videos.  Still planning to see live games.  Looking forward to meeting Frank U. at Homecoming...on the sunny side seats and my class tent.  As posted earlier, you all posters are welcome to join me and Frank.  We will watch Amherst win it's 4th straight football game over Williams. ...truly !

[Old Guy]

Yeah come on guys!!! Surely there has to have been a game in which Midd performed better than Williams during the AMH/WLMS game in question.

Where is Old Guy to tell us about a time back in the fifties when Midd's JV squad beat someone by the same margin without the shot clock, 3 point line, or GPA Inflation?

Where is Bucket to remind us that the 2011 Midd team played equally as well during the NESCAC championship, but were far more humble than those showboaters from Williams?

Where is Panthernation to demonstrate using advanced metrics that Midd performed better during a 2-point loss at Bowdoin in 2006 (led my MVP of the world Ben Rudin) than Williams did against Amherst last month?

(I kid, Midd supporters, I kid)

I am going to accept Booyakasha's invitation, but take it somewhat seriously, but, alas, typically, turn back the clock.

I have observed many times my admiration for Williams' basketball tradition of success: they were terrific when I played nearly a half century ago - and they still are, and always have been. Amazing. Amherst has been successful since Hixon arrived, lo these many years ago. They weren't great when I played. Trinity, Colby, Conn College have all had their runs. It's been so much fun for me that Middlebury has made it a "Big Three" for much of the last decade, starting with the Ben Rudin teams.

I do believe that Midd may have been the third best team in the region (Williams might agree), but was not mistreated in not being selected for the NCAA tourney. What a fascinating season they had: with Sinnickson's sabbatical, those tough injuries, a mid-season slump, last second losses to the Ephs, et al - all documented by those talented young filmmakers: ups and downs and ins and outs. The drama of sports is not generally about unbroken success. Its value is in the effort and the process: I prefer to believe that Lombardi actually said "winning isn't everything. The will to win is the only thing."

My senior year as a player Middlebury won only one game, a 14 point win over Brandeis, coached by KC Jones. We lost twice to UVM, by one point and five points. Excruciating. We averaged over 70 points a game. We found many different ways to lose. I've written a number published articles about "my losing season." That team was the best team I played on at Midd, as far as talent goes. We were star-crossed. We liked and respected our coach (Gerry Alaimo) and loved one another as teammates. We tried hard. At one point, I said to the coach that I thought I was a much better player than the player ahead of me getting the minutes. He said he agreed, but "he's a sophomore and you're a senior, and we're 0-11." Enuf sed. I sat next to Gerry on the bench and kept track of timeouts (there's was no assistant) - and I wrote the basketball newsletter. Miraculously enough, we remember that season as a positive experience. My sports values are conditioned by it.

Hey Booyakasha, if it weren't for us it would be all Jeffs all Ephs all the time. Be grateful.

[magicman]

Good reply as usual Old Guy. Plus K.

[middhoops]

Funny.  I saw Old Guy's teams play. 
My mother would let me go to the library or Middlebury College sporting events.  Did both but can relate more stories about Midd Hoops than kiddie research of geography.
Gerry Alaimo had been a great big man at Brown.  He appeared lost to me as a coach of a no talent team in the backwoods of VT, apologies to OG and his team mates, especially Clubbo.
Alaimo's teams were small, slow, couldn't jump, shot inconsistently and had little depth, including the starting five. Still, we loved them.
OG's teams were followed by some better athletes and slightly better recruiting coaches.
That, notwithstanding, it was well into the Jeff Brown era before the Panthers achieved widespread success in basketball.  Good damned thing that I've lived this long!
Kudos to Old Guy for being able and willing to share the history with us.  (Even if I, and Vandy, do pre-date him as fans.)

[amh63]

Need to provide a little bias rational for the weak Amherst teams in the era of OG's BB "recorded" hardwood fame.  Those were the days of freshmen teams and varsity teams.  There was also a "frat/club" league.  One could play in the frat games if one did not letter on the varsity team.  A large number of good bb players decided to join the frat league.  My frat team had the 6'9" freshman team center and the Capt of the Exerter's Prep BB team along with a varsity player.  We lost few games and only to the DU house team.  The DU team would scrimmage the Amherst varsity to prepare for the New England title for their fraternity.  In a way it is ironic that Coach Hixon's frat was DU.  I believe we could have won the frat title...we, because I was the pg....if  my house had recruited successfully the 6'10" freshman center the following year....a little slow, but had potential on the defensive side.  Needed him to give relief to my classmate on the floor...lost games in the second half due to conditioning .   In my days, DU was the "original Animal House"...jock wise.  Going to get in trouble again with a certain coach.

[middhoops]

Thanks, amh; that's great stuff.  +k

[nescac1]

Looking forward to meeting Frank U. at Homecoming...on the sunny side seats and my class tent.  As posted earlier, you all posters are welcome to join me and Frank.  We will watch Amherst win it's 4th straight football game over Williams. ...truly !

amh63, are you more or less confident of that than you were that Amherst would beat Williams in Salem in 2014 (I remember you seemed to not even be remotely concerned, and instead were scouting the title game)?  Or beat Williams in Lefrak in the 2007 NESCAC title game?  Or beat Williams when Amherst was previously undefeated in football in 1996, 1997, 2001?  Or beat Williams in the last two men's soccer elite 8 contests? 

Just curious to know to what degree I should discount your "guarantee" of an Amherst victory. 

Williams lost a LOT of really close, very winnable games in football last year, many of which went down to the last possession. Their record was not truly reflective of their talent level.  Most of the team's key guys are returning, especially on defense.  The entire two-deep of a young and often overmatched OL returns and will be immensely improved with another year of experience. They are hungry and angry.  I wouldn't count your chickens too early ... if we know one thing from the history of the rivalry, there are no sure things when Williams plays Amherst, in almost any sport.  If Williams can figure something out at the QB position, they will surprise some teams next year. 

Speaking of Amherst, still curious to hear who this "next Toomey / Olson" who we were told will be arriving next year is! 

[Old Guy]

Gerry Alaimo had been a great big man at Brown.  He appeared lost to me as a coach of a no talent team in the backwoods of VT, apologies to OG and his team mates, especially Clubbo.
Alaimo's teams were small, slow, couldn't jump, shot inconsistently and had little depth, including the starting five. Still, we loved them.
OG's teams were followed by some better athletes and slightly better recruiting coaches. middhoops

I thought Gerry was a good coach: he prepared us well, gave us a chance to win. Clubbo will concur. The problem was a lack of talent, his decision to change the schedule (take the Canadian humpties off, guaranteeing losses to Springfield, AIC, Northeastern, UNH, and the like), and cursed fate.

Tom Lawson ('70-'78) was quite successful, winning nearly 60% of games, before there were binding league schedules. Russ Reilly ('78-970 won 40% of his games and took pride in putting together the toughest schedule he could. Easier to schedule teams in those days.

As a quick exercise last summer, I took Russ's 13-10 team from 25 years ago, '88-89, and did a little comparison. That year we played UVM and St. Michael's . We played Williams, Tufts, and Union twice, home and home.

If we remove those five games (UVM and St. Mike's plus the second games with Wms, Tufts, and Union) and add the replacement games from last year's schedule (the VT schools: St. Joe's, Green Mtn, Lyndon State, Johnson State), all wins, you now have the earlier team with a likely record of 17-6 or 18-5, and possibly better, and a quite different impression of relative success.

This is not a knock on Jeff Brown - his record in NESCAC the last ten years speaks for itself, but rather an observation on the impact on the final record of teams, wins and losses, as a result of inevitable scheduling prerequisites today and changes over time.

Regarding amh63's insights on the era: there was a sense at Middlebury too that there were a number of intramural all-stars that could have helped the varsity. It wasn't true. I thought there were maybe two guys, both played two other sports, who could have played intercollegiately in my three years (frosh ineligibility) and neither would have made a great difference. At Midd too, some believed the DU all-stars could have defeated the actual team, but they wouldn't have: we would have doubled their score. I suspect there's still some of that feeling around now and then. Big difference between intramurals and intercollegiate play. 

Enough prehistoric history: are we trying to drive the under-50 crowd off the Board?

[jumpshot]

...or in our lifetime win more total national championships, or Directors Cups, or have better rankings, ratings, fewer fraternities, better on-campus culture, etc....

[amh63]

Life is full of surprises, ups and downs, etc.....especially for sports fans. 
Old Guy....prehistoric?...agree to shut down posting of distorted memories.  Heck, if I repeat it enough, maybe I will get it correct ...a good reason to go to reunions.

Nescac1....missed your posts during this "quiet"  bb period.  My response to the specific 2014 game in question, I will defer to the football board in the Fall.

I agreed that in any sporting event between our schools can bring surprises.  In any contest between good teams, I am hopeful.  I am also realistic.  ECSUalum and I watched on-line recently a baseball game between our schools.  On "paper" our teams seemed well matched.  After two innings, Amherst was getting crushed...it was 16-0 after 4 inning.  Amherst's starting pitcher was having a very bad day.  A Surprise...yes!  Both our teams will make a run for our conference titles  this season.

You question my confidence level of the outcome in Salem.  Yes, I was hopeful for a win this year, just as I was the previous year.  The surprise was the point spread.  I suspect that you were hopeful of a win too, just as you were the previous year.

To close, I will relate a story..a football story that happened this season that I feel is related to the present topic.  I become acquainted with football parents who have sons on the both the teams at Amherst and Trinity.  They follow their sons' games...at the Hamilton game they were watching live and keeping track of another on-line.  You can say say they know football..Nescac football.  Amherst lost a close game to Wesleyan and won a close game against Trinity...both at home.  The father predicted that the Bantams would crush the Cardinals in Hartford.  I thought the game would be a toss-up....hopeful for a Trinity win.  To my surprise, the father was right on.   In my response in the Fall, I will check in with the father...part of doing my homework

[GingerBaker]

Who originally posted the Olson/Toomey guy?  And is there a particular reason s/he has been so mum.....?

[toad22]

I know it is way, way, way too early to think about next season, but nothing is happening right now that is really interesting to me, so I have been pondering next year. The NESCAC will be be very much changed, as a lot of posters have already suggested. I feel that the teams with intact back courts will have a big advantage for at least half the season, if not more. I haven't done a study of the teams, but obviously the teams with a problem in this area include Midd and particularly Amherst. Amherst's backcourt has been wiped out, including the two time national player of the year. Midd is in a better place, with Jake Brown back. The loss of Kizel is very difficult, however, since he was so central for so long. It strikes me that the biggest winners in this area will include Trinity, Williams, Colby, Wesleyan, and Bowdoin, though I need to go back and check rosters to be sure.

Many times in the past, posters, including myself, have suggested that Amherst was in for a down year, and were proved very wrong. The real possibility that Amherst won't be in the top 10 nationally again seems possible. I like Amherst's 3,4, and 5 (Green, Pollack, and George), but they are, at the moment, completely up the creek regarding their backcourt. Hixon, once again, needs to pull a rabbit out of the recruiting hat. It is Tom Parker's last year, so that possibility is very real.