MBB: NESCAC

AmherstStudent05 · January 13, 2015, 11:42:49 PM

I missed tonight's game, but I am obviously glad to see my Jeffs rebound nicely with a comfortable Little III win. I was worried that Saturday's tough loss might have some lingering effects. Happy to see that was not the case.

Big games for Amherst this weekend. Critical to protect hold serve at home in conference play.

I know it is still way too early, but I have started to give a little thought to all conference teams. I wonder, given the muddled state of conference play as well as HRL's unfortunate injury, what the chances are that no school ends up with more than one all conference selection this year. Again, still a long way to go and probably won't happen, but I think, at this stage, it is at least a feasible possibility. I assume that such an outcome would be unprecedented in the NESCAC, but maybe not.

nescac1 · January 14, 2015, 07:46:03 AM

Old Guy: "Hard to evaluate Trinity's loss tonight. The Bantams are the only team USMMA plays, so no chance for comparative analysis. They may be pretty good despite their record." That would indeed be an unusual schedule

. I think that is clearly a very bad, and surprising, loss for the Bantams.

I feel like every time a NESCAC team seems to be gaining some momentum -- Bates and Middlebury early in the season, then Amherst and Williams, most recently Trinity -- they fall back to the pack with a loss or two. Bates right now seems to be playing at a high level again, but I would be very surprised if they did any better than a split in that really tough Trinity/Amherst road weekend. Middlebury is in the midst of an extraordinarily soft patch of the schedule for this point in the season (the worst they could realistically go in the next five is 4-1), so the Panthers have the best chance of emerging from this portion of the schedule with a gaudy record, but then they end the season with a substantially (to put it mildly) tougher stretch of games, including at Williams, Keene, the Maine road weekend, and Trinity/Amherst, that may once again bring them back down to earth. It looks like it's just going to continue to be a crazy year with impossible-to-predict results.

NCF · January 14, 2015, 08:16:54 AM

Quote from: MENESCACFAN on January 13, 2015, 11:25:31 PM
"I think even MENESCACFAN will agree"

I just put the highlight link up. It was actually somebody else who said what an impressive dunk it was.

I watched the game while catching up on some things at school and the Castleton announcers were impressed. They even showed a replay of the dunk during the game. I've never seen that happen before.

Old Guy · January 14, 2015, 09:14:50 AM

Quote from: nescac1 on January 14, 2015, 07:46:03 AM
Old Guy: "Hard to evaluate Trinity's loss tonight. The Bantams are the only team USMMA plays, so no chance for comparative analysis. They may be pretty good despite their record." That would indeed be an unusual schedule . I think that is clearly a very bad, and surprising, loss for the Bantams.

I feel like every time a NESCAC team seems to be gaining some momentum -- Bates and Middlebury early in the season, then Amherst and Williams, most recently Trinity -- they fall back to the pack with a loss or two. Bates right now seems to be playing at a high level again, but I would be very surprised if they did any better than a split in that really tough Trinity/Amherst road weekend. Middlebury is in the midst of an extraordinarily soft patch of the schedule for this point in the season (the worst they could realistically go in the next five is 4-1), so the Panthers have the best chance of emerging from this portion of the schedule with a gaudy record, but then they end the season with a substantially (to put it mildly) tougher stretch of games, including at Williams, Keene, the Maine road weekend, and Trinity/Amherst, that may once again bring them back down to earth. It looks like it's just going to continue to be a crazy year with impossible-to-predict results.

Old Guy · January 14, 2015, 09:19:10 AM

Quote from: nescac1 on January 14, 2015, 07:46:03 AM
Old Guy: "Hard to evaluate Trinity's loss tonight. The Bantams are the only team USMMA plays, so no chance for comparative analysis. They may be pretty good despite their record." That would indeed be an unusual schedule . I think that is clearly a very bad, and surprising, loss for the Bantams.

I feel like every time a NESCAC team seems to be gaining some momentum -- Bates and Middlebury early in the season, then Amherst and Williams, most recently Trinity -- they fall back to the pack with a loss or two. Bates right now seems to be playing at a high level again, but I would be very surprised if they did any better than a split in that really tough Trinity/Amherst road weekend. Middlebury is in the midst of an extraordinarily soft patch of the schedule for this point in the season (the worst they could realistically go in the next five is 4-1), so the Panthers have the best chance of emerging from this portion of the schedule with a gaudy record, but then they end the season with a substantially (to put it mildly) tougher stretch of games, including at Williams, Keene, the Maine road weekend, and Trinity/Amherst, that may once again bring them back down to earth. It looks like it's just going to continue to be a crazy year with impossible-to-predict results.

That would be the "only NESCAC team they play." Poor proofreading late at night. Sober too, can't blame it on demon rum.

amh63 · January 14, 2015, 11:23:29 AM

Stayed up very late again to catch some Tuesday's ACC games on ESPN. Saw the "U" of Coral Gables beat N0. 4 Duke in their special place...stopped Duke's 41 home win streak, giving Coach K and his team a rare 2 game losing streak. Bucket's HOOs, which won easily last night, was vindicated for their 2OT win over the "U" in Florida.
ESPN's featured game was at Kentucky that blew out someone....yet the no.1 ranked team earlier was pushed to 2OTs in another game. It does seems that this is also a crazy year in the upper tiers of Div.1.
Oh yes, it was a 17 point win for the "U"......even higher as Duke made a unchallenged dunk at the buzzer. Duke starts 3 freshmen.
FYI, the game to watch....for me tonight, is WPI at Babson.

gordonmann · January 14, 2015, 02:54:47 PM

QuoteCan anyone shed any light on how Trinity were beaten by a 3-11 team on the back of a 5 game losing streak?!

I didn't watch any of the Merchant Marine game, but I did watch a fair amount of the Williams game. At the risk of generalizing too much based on limited information, the Bantams look very reliant on defense and their offense, minus JaQuann Starks, is as flashy as a belt sander. Pound it inside for the big guys or hope someone creates something off the dribble late in the shot clock.

They looked like the type of team that will play "better" teams closer than you expect if they can keep the score down and lose to "worse" teams if they don't find a way to score at at least a reasonable pace.

NothingButNESCAC · January 14, 2015, 03:02:29 PM

Quote from: gordonmann on January 14, 2015, 02:54:47 PM
QuoteCan anyone shed any light on how Trinity were beaten by a 3-11 team on the back of a 5 game losing streak?!

I didn't watch any of the Merchant Marine game, but I did watch a fair amount of the Williams game. At the risk of generalizing too much based on limited information, the Bantams look very reliant on defense and their offense, minus JaQuann Starks, is as flashy as a belt sander. Pound it inside for the big guys or hope someone creates something off the dribble late in the shot clock.

They looked like the type of team that will play "better" teams closer than you expect if they can keep the score down and lose to "worse" teams if they don't find a way to score at at least a reasonable pace.

Starks also only played 15 minutes of the game, and he did not play down the stretch. Still trying to figure out what happened because we saw him standing in the huddle still in uniform but I think Trinity would have easily won with him playing his usual minutes.

nescac1 · January 14, 2015, 03:18:30 PM

I think gordonmann his the nail on the head. Trinity's defense is very, very sticky, but its offense is pretty ugly at times -- there isn't a ton of ball movement, most of the guys aren't all that skilled with the ball, and they toss up a lot of bricks, outside Starks, who is quick and can light it up when he gets hot. But, they get a ton of second-chance points just from sheer strength, size, and force of will, and they have a lot of athletic guys who are excellent finishers IF they can get the ball within five feet of the rim. Ajayi is a physical mismatch at the wing, Ogundeko in particular is a great athlete on both ends, and I continue to be both impressed by Papadeas's skill set down low whenever I watch him, and flummoxed by how seldom he seems to touch the ball on the low block. If Starks is hurt, that is VERY good news for Tufts and Bates this weekend (who both, of course, have big question marks of their own with Sabety and Safford missing time).

TheHerst2and4 · January 14, 2015, 03:44:18 PM

Quote from: jayhawk on January 13, 2015, 09:39:45 PM
agree it was Jayde Dawson's second half where he played well. He has a come long way since beginning of year. He was a shoot or drive first player.
tonite was a nice flash of his potential. Perhaps with some confidence and the tincture of time we will see more growth. Both Connor Green and Johnny Mac provided significant offense

Admittedly I did not catch the game and Jayde could very well have played a great game. What is disconcerting to me is that he had 0 assists, at point guard, in 21 minutes.

Amherst has plenty of scorers, but to me it seems they lack a leader. Watching the Amherst team the last few years I found it lacked a point guard that really got others involved. It leads to a lot of 1 on 1 and not much continuity in offensive sets. Continuity and involving everyone just builds team chemistry and confidence in one another. Aaron is clearly one of the best players to ever wear the Amherst uniform and I am not taking anything away from what he accomplished. It just seemed that at times and particularly at the end of games other players sort of sat back and watched him do his thing. Don't get me wrong he probably single handedly won a lot of games for the Jeffs, but the Amherst offense lacked a flow sometimes.

In any event, I'd love for one of the point guards (or anyone) on this Amherst team step up as a leader, get the team to run its sets and run them hard, get everyone involved and playing unselfishly, and maybe throw some stingy defense and toughness in there. They have the talent; they're just missing that edge.

TIAJeff · January 14, 2015, 04:28:32 PM

What is preventing Berman from assuming the pg role and Dawson moving to the 2? I'm perplexed. McCarthy/Green/George seems like a pretty sweet frontcourt.

Nabatoff doesn't really inspire me - I swear every time he goes for a rebound against a guard, it ends up a jumpball. McCarthy is pretty much the Second Coming, though - his style is really fluid, and (based on years of streetball participation/observation from the depths of the heavily Irish neighborhood in which I was raised) exTREMELY Irish, if that makes any sense at all.

Anyway, back to my OG point: I know Berman doesn't shoot, but who cares? Dawson shoots enough for the both of them! And this way Amherst would have a pretty competent/visual point guard to temper Dawson's offensive life. Or is the theory that they shouldn't both be on the court because of durability, etc? Even then, with Barry coming back (?), and all the 2s-4s in the world, Hixon could always shuffle things such that Berman/Dawson are on the court together a lot but still get enough rest.

amh63 · January 14, 2015, 05:04:07 PM

TIAJeff.....welcome aboard! Your observations, IMO, are good. In yesterday's game, Dawson in the first half would stare at the basket and miss Green to his left...waiting. Kept wondering why he was still in after missing his first 7 shots. Did make an outside shot from the left corner. Have been a critic of his play for awhile....have to be careful here. He appears to not want to see the floor, wanting to see how to score...thereby disrupting the offensive flow/set/timing/play...whatever. I believe the coaches want to give him confidence in his play, etc.
With regards to Nabatoff...he seems to have lost his confidence. His play was better in the WES game than in the Williams game. He is athletic; has and made outside shots and is very long and has a great upside. He can score on a drive to the basket along the baseline. However, in earlier games he was set up to make the play along the baseline and missed the dunk. Down on himself. Again, coaches are giving him time to regain his confidence, imo.
The interesting comment that you made was TMac at the 3, maybe the 4? He has the ability to play many positions, but believe the 2 and 3 are where the coaches want him. He does bring the ball up even when Berman is in, when there is a press on. In the WES game he had 5 assist, followed by Berman with 4 assist, I believe.
Last point here....the other freshman...Rio...as I refer to him...is also a surprise. He has a sweet outside shot, and will battle for rebounds. He may have a more natural 3-point shot than TMac. He played PG in high school...and is a ball handler too.
There has been several times when Coach Hixon has had a Short quick lineup in the game in the 2nd half....if you can call 6-4/ 5 players short....Green, TMac, Racy, rio and George. Four outside shooters that can handed the ball, rebound along with George and all play solid defense. They can run!

NEhoops · January 14, 2015, 05:19:21 PM

nescac1, I agree with your take on Papadeas. He could average 15ppg and 10rpg if he played closer to 25 min/game. His percentages are good and he plays hard. As we know the Bantams can struggle to score, but maybe Cosgrove prefers a more defensive minded big man. A split for the Bobcats would be a successful weekend to a majority of observers.

I think Safford sitting out was just for rest (Furbush taking a page out of Popovich's book), he leads the league in minutes/game and UMPI isn't a powerhouse. As for Sabety, surprised we haven't heard more about his status, for him to sit vs Middlebury means something is up. With Starks, seems as though something happened during the game, otherwise, shocked that he only played 15 minutes in a game that they needed to have (in terms of building their resume).

jayhawk · January 14, 2015, 05:42:31 PM

I would suggest that playing time at guard for Amherst is a lot more complicated than just looking at a box score
There is no Toomey and no Andrew Olson who had a combination of strengths including particularly being great distributors with 10 assist per game
It is combination of factors and not just assists in a box score and what is best considering the roster. Sometimes Dawson was stuck shooting because the shot clock was running down- I am not saying all the time.
Who has the speed and quickness to play defense ?
Who can drive to the basket and make something happen and not get trapped in the middle of the key?
Who has mental lapses?
Is the balance and tempo of players on the court creating opportunities for everyone ?
In the second half but not first half once Dawson hit his first shot the flow of the offense was much better- He did not just take shots at that point, He has potential to score from outside or drive which opened up the floor for the team for the rest of team.
I think the key will be the flow of offense. When Racy, Johhny Mac and Green are on floor there is great spacing and easier to drive to hoop
There is a big learning curve here and hopefully they can learn -

nescac1 · January 14, 2015, 06:07:46 PM

I realize that TheHerst2and4 knows more than a little bit about point guard play at Amherst

, but I do think he is bit too unkind to Toomey's ability to get teammates involved when saying "Watching the Amherst team the last few years I found it lacked a point guard that really got others involved." Toomey, I thought, was excellent at getting teammates involved when that was needed, and taking over on his own when that was needed, which last year, was quite often, given the composition of the roster. And the results speak for themselves: a national title, and a near-miss.