MBB: NESCAC

[nescac hoops]

"I don't think there was a single team within 250 miles of Amherst that could have adequately prepared the Lord Jeffs for Wittenberg last year and their two giants." mrmike, here is a geography lesson: umass amherst is .3 miles from the amherst college campus and would have been adequate in preparing the lord jeffs. if williams was able to schedule a regular season game with holy cross, i'm sure hixon could arrange for a scrimmage or two with UMASS, especially considering UMASS hasn't had a whole lot to do in march the past few years.

capt. partridge - you are right but i was sort of insinuating when the ncaa tournament expanded in the 60's. in 1947 only 8 teams made it to the post season and some major universities didn't field basketball teams. i should have specified, my bad.

blacklord jeff i would like to add one more....

WAR crotty's sister literally laying the smack down on andrew "i cheated in college and got caught" schiel' sister down in salem. she was much better looking with a beer poured on her. priceless.

[mrmike88]

Here's where the NESCAC stands at the end of the First Semester:

Amherst 8-0
Bates 8-0
Trinity 7-1                  Loss to Springfield
Tufts 7-2                    Losses to Brandeis, RIC
Conn College 7-3       Losses to Rutgers-Newark, E Conn, Salve Regina
Colby 5-3                   Losses to WashU, Bates, Davidson (D1)
Bowdoin 5-3              Losses to Colby, Bates, Salem State
Middlebury 5-3           Losses to MIT, St. Lawrence, RPI
Williams 5-4               Losses to Wesleyan, RPI, Framingham State, Montclair State
Wesleyan 4-4            Losses to Hamilton, CCNY, E Conn, Mass-Dartmouth

[eclinchy]

Anyway... in the news on the OTHER side of Masachusetts...

Tufts cruised by Plymouth State at Cousens tonight.  They had a blowout lead most of the way, but Plymouth managed to keep it close toward the end.  Final score was 87-77, I think.

Brian Kumf played probably his best game of the season so far.  21 points, 15 of them in the second half.

Ryan O'Keefe had to play against his brother (Jason O'Keefe is a freshman guard who sees a lot of minutes off the Plymouth bench).

[Friar T]

Let the sermon begin...

NESCAC hoops, you are a walking contradiction. First you criticize Hixon for weak scheduling, then you say that the whole region sucks anyways. How is a coach supposed to put together a good schedule in a bad region? You're basically criticizing Amherst for being better than everyone else. Is it their fault that they're 32+ points better than everyone else? I think not. Maybe he should start recruiting from the kiddy pool like some others...

Then you say that he should put together scrimmages with UMass.

A) Offseason scrimmages are illegal

B) a DI school has almost nothing to gain by playing a DIII school in the regular season. Holy Cross had to learn that the hard way by dropping a game to your beloved Ephs, ruining possibilities for potential DI vs. DIII future matchups.

Also, if there were EVER a year to criticize Hix's scheduling, this wasn't the one. They went to MIT (a regular in recent postseason play), played Brandeis (called by some the second-best team in NE), went to RIC (another team with region hype) and to Trinity U., (another NCAA regular). He's scheduled nearly the best in his region (which he can't control) has to offer. Big ups to Hix for doing his best to challenge one of the best teams he's ever had.

Tell you what I'll do. I'll take up a collection from my congregation and use the Lord's cash to fly the Jeffs around and play all the best DIII has to offer to make you happy. Sounds stupid right? Welcome to everything we've had to listen exit your mouth...

Basically all your arguments on the subject lack simple reason and rationality. I think the Historian's F- grade for your common sense may have been a little high...

And now to real topics...
Love to see my boy Fletch getting some props! Big ups to the NESCAC office for recognizing greatness. The scariest thing is that some of Amherst's best players aren't firing on all cylinders yet. I mean really, no one has even taken notice that Dan Wheeler, a First-Team All-Region (if not All-American) caliber player, took just four shots and played just 19 minutes against Brandeis. How many teams in the nation, let alone the region, could get that type of game from one of their top players and still beat a team of that caliber by double-digits? Their greatness terrifies me...

Amen.

[senatorfrost]

  I keep reading how Amherst is 0-4 in Final Four play, or rather I should say Final Four games. The fact is that Division 1 stopped playing the consolation game years ago, partially because of lack of interest. The D1 tourney got so big that it didn't need the extra fans that a Consolation game brought and so the Consolation game ceased to exist.
   I doubt very seriously that too many players care as much about the Consolation game in D3. as the one the day before. Of course they would rather win it than lose it, but as far as real energy and desire-I doubt it's the same. Winning it is like kissing your Grandmother. From what I have seen lots of people get to play and someone scores more than the other.
  It's still around because the people who run the tourney feel it adds $$$. and helps fill what would have been empty seats. I'll put the thinking of the NCAA and the Salem folks into a song of sorts so it will be easy to remember that it's not really a game like the one the day before. Amherst is really 0-2 in the Final Four games (that count)

His folks will stay another day
They'll throw more cash our way
They'll fill the seats and sing the chants,
and so will his Sisters and his Cousins and his Aunts

[senatorfrost]

Now I would like to address another issue but instead of basketball I want to talk about tennis. This will be a test of sorts and it will be mutiple choice. I guess you could call it a sort of a tennis reading comprehension test.

There were two tennis players. Both men. Bill and Jeff. Both were very good and both were All Americans (why not?) Anyway at the beginning of the 2003 season it looked as if Jeff might be the better player. He beat Bill but then poor Jeff started getting some crippling injuries. First he pulled his hamstring. He could still play but he totally lost his quickness, that first step that helps in so many sports. Jeff also had some little injuries as did Bill but it was the hamstring that hampered. Before long Jeff's knees started becoming very painful. He continued to play against Bill but the pain grew worse. In their final meeting Jeff was only able to get four shots off at the net. Jeff lost.

Please pick the answer that you feel best answers the question, Why did Jeff lose?

A. Jeff played weaker players
B. Jeff's  coach said he was better.
c.  Bill was a lunch pail kind of player who refused to lose.
d Bill played stronger players
e. Jeff's injuries simply overcame him

[nescac hoops]

Friar,
fine, have them scrimmage during the season so it is a legal scrimmage - they are .3 miles apart. god forbid amherst do anything that could be seen as cheating (an out of season scrimmage) like andrew schiel did on a test.
i said bradeis was competitive earlier. however,  trinity u., "a NCAA regular", doesn't cut it. they are nowhere in the polls. ill remind you that williams used to be a ncaa regular but that doesn't exactly boost an opponent's strength of schedule b/c they were good 3 years ago. stupid example, friar, F-.
currently in the d3 hoops poll there are a number of schools in the eastern region who "receive votes" and two others that are ranked - williams patterson (11th), bates (16th, who the jeffs are forced to play), NYU, rochester, keene st. (right up 91), utica, tufts (forced to play) and WPI (why not play them instead of worcester st. tonight) that are all within resonable distance. granted i know they can't play all these teams given the number of games you're allowed to play but invite one of them to a hosted tournament. or continue to play in the "kiddie pool" teams and you can take another worthless, winless trip down to salem - i don't really care, i was merely suggesting that amherst strengthen their schedule to strengthen their chances in the ncaa tourny. but hey, the fact that amherst is
baner-less leaves us with some bragging rights.

senator, ben coffin played with a  fracture in his foot the entire second half of his senior season and refused to get an xray because if it turned out to be a break, which it was, he would be forced to sit. if you are somehow implying that the jeffs lost because they had injuries you might want to find another excuse or amhrest players should take a lesson in toughness from ben coffin.

[senatorfrost]

 Now we turn to 2004. Bill and Jeff are still tennis rivals and as the 2004 season begins Jeff and Bill are still swatting away at each other and tennis balls are flying all over the place. Once again Jeff dominates the first match on his home court,but in the second Jeff sustains a lot of injuries during the match and Bill storms back from a deficit to win on his home court. Jeff lost something in that game, a small part of his arsenal but still a loss. Again both Bill and Jeff have minor injuries and they meet for a third time at Bill's home court because of the fact that Bill won the second match. Jeff is still missing what he lost in the second match and he loses the third match at Bill's court. Jeff then readies himself for the fourth match.
  The fourth match was pretty even for a long time. Played on a neutral court it favored neither Bill nor Jeff. Alas, just as it began to look as if Jeff was going to pull it out (the match that is) he broke his leg. A substitute was allowed but Bill pulled ahead and won.

Give the most probable reason why you think Jeff lost the fourth match.

A Jeff's chauffer was drunk.
B. Carrying the lunch pail for so long made Bill's arms very strong.
C Bill had played better players during the year.
D. Bill's coach was coach of the year.
E. Jeff broke his leg during the match.

[senatorfrost]

 Playing with a broken foot is not as uncommon as you might think. It depends on a lot of things. Whatever kind of break it was it still left him as the best center in New England. When Fitzsimons pulled his hamstring he simply could not move as fast- It wasn't that he didn't try. It wasn't that the others didn't try either, they lost a lot of effectiveness, there are all kinds of breaks-ask your Doctor. I am sure he can explain it far better than I could. You had to be smart to get into Williams-They don't do a lot of dipping for tennis players. However, here you seem hell bent on reverting.

[senatorfrost]

 One question NESCAC-why do you get so personal sometimes? Was it necessary to bad mouth Schiel? If so, why? I am truly curious.

[formerbant10]

I'd like to have watched the match to answer that question to the best of my ability.  As we all know, watching the game is much different than hearing about the game.

Anyway....can we keep all the personal shots to a minimum.  As an outsider to the Bill/Jeff rivalry maybe my view on this issue is quite different than most of the posters here.

Historically both programs have been great, especially in New England.  After all they are the 2nd and 3rd NE schools to make it to the Final Four (Karma points for the other school).  Williams had a 2 year run where they were the best team in DIII (UWSP has an argument there).  The year before that run started, Williams exited in the 2nd round of the NCAA.  The year after that run they did not make the tourney.

The Historian has pointed out what Amherst has done in recent history in previous posts.  As far as consistency, there are very few teams in DIII that have been as good as Amherst.  Check the Top 25 posts to see their impressive streak in the D3hoops Top 25.  While they haven't won the big game in Salem, they have been there quite a bit.  And any player will tell you that is an amazing accomplishment.  Losing those games in Salem should not take away from what those players did in their careers.

Just to add to the "scrimmage scandal"  The Globetrotters are no longer allowed to play NCAA teams either.  Neither are the ex-NCAA player filled teams that EA Sports and other sponsors used to send out.

And last I checked, injuries are part of the game.  They do not just hamper Williams and Amherst.  I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that every team has had injuries, some worse than others, but they play a big role in what happens during the course of a season.  

A pretty good coach once told me "It doesn't matter if all the pieces are in place, sometimes the ball just doesn't bounce your way."  

[senatorfrost]

 Formerbant. I remember Amherst beating Trinity in the  2005 NESCAC playoffs. I believe you pointed out that Robert Taylor had a bad hand and was severely hampered offensively. I looked at it like this. Trinity probably would have won if he had not been hampered. I remember in 2004 he and Rhoten were literally unstoppable, so even though Trinity very well might have been better than Amherst had Taylor been healthy, Amherst  was still the NESCAC champion that year. Trinity, in my opinion, had a hard luck year. (2005)
   

[CCsalive]

I always enjoy a good purple v.purple, Jeffs v. Ephs debate, but I'm really writing to wish everyone luck this year trying to stop Conn's Junior STUD Charles Stone who pulled down 20 and 10 tonight to topple Springfield (they've been a huge underachiever the past few years) this after a quiet 36pts the game prior.

CC is no longer young, now they are just simply good. Shavar Bernier will be talked about for ROY and their  7-3 start is without Jeff Young who returns next semester.

Again, CCsalive and well

[The Historian]

Just a few last thoughts from the Hugh Quattlebaum Professor of Truth...

1.  Wow, I will never write a post as long as that last one.

2.  Amherst wins tonight 70-42 over poor-Salem-prepper Worcester St.  Wheeler Sr. with 14, Baskauskas 5-7 for 11 and 4 in 22 minutes, and Olson with 7 dimes, which must push him very, very close to second place all-time in the Amherst books (I will have to consult the archives tomorrow).

3.  senatorfrost, loved the test questions.  Crafty like Adam Harper on D.

4.  Friar T, keep preaching.

5.  For that matter, blacklordjeff, keep up the real preachin'.

6.  nescac hoops, I know it's a little tacky to poke fun of writing on a forum like this, but the grammar and spelling mistakes as well as a few missed question marks are going to drop your writing grade to a C-.  But then again, who am I to hand out grades?

7.  I do have to amend one of my earlier posts.  Somehow in writing about Amherst point guards I forgot about Daoust (he came to me in my sleep, reminding me of his 39 point, nine 3-pointer performance against Clark).  I should have written that he, Faulkner, Corrigan, and Olson are the best back-to-back-to-back-to-back point guards in NESCAC history.  Amherst out-Tom-Emanskied Tom Emanski.

8.  Finally, I'm really not familiar with the F- grade.  The college I went to didn't have it.  Seems none of our students deserved it.  I can't speak for other colleges, however.

Don't be a fool; stay in school.

[walzy31]

Haha loving some of the banter and mapquesting. I particularly liked the multiple choice questions from SenatorFrost which were way over my head.

Lot of old Amherst posters coming out of the woodwork... "ehniiice" - Borat