MBB: NESCAC

[nescac1]

At least one commentator thinks Duncan Robinson may be starting next year.  That would be pretty incredible:  http://isportsweb.com/2015/06/04/michigan-basketball-the-missing-piece/

amh63, Williams does have a huge number of student athletes.  But I don't think the sheer amount of participation has anything to do with the Director's Cup.  Williams has absolutely ENORMOUS football, men's and women's swimming and diving, men's and women's cross country, and men's and women's track and field rosters.  Football has nothing to do with the Director's Cup.  The other sports certainly do, but only about 5-10 athletes on each squad, all of whom would be recruited athletes, would have any impact at nationals.  So there is really no difference, in terms of the Director's Cup, between a 20 person and a 60 person (for example) track and field roster.  Amherst has just as many athletic slots and recruits as Williams does, and those recruits are the ones who are going to affect the school's performance at nationals, not the non-recruited athletes who just want to participate at a varsity level.

Williams' biggest advantage in terms of the Director's Cup is the sheer number of sports it competes in -- many schools don't have varsity women's crew, or wrestling, or skiing, or women's golf squads for example.  On the other hand, though, Williams still has the same number of total recruits as Amherst to spread around among more varsity sports -- so one more recruit for wrestling or skiing means one less recruit that the Ephs can use on basketball or lacrosse, e.g..  If Amherst added a few more varsity sports to its repertoir, I don't think Hixon would be able to get a dozen hoops recruits including two transfers over the course of two years ... so be careful what you wish for! 

[jumpshot]

amH63--

Your alleged point about the number of student/athletes at Williams as a root cause of decades of success as measured by the Directors' Cup is, of course, totally false. Surely you are aware the Ephs have won against many schools with multiple numbers of student/athletes, such as Washington University, Johns Hopkins, MIT, Wisconsin Whitewater, etc.

There always seems to be excuses from the lj nation .....if the facts were ever on your side, you could argue the facts ... in the interim, you're left with continuing to pound the table....

[ronk]

amH63--

Your alleged point about the number of student/athletes at Williams as a root cause of decades of success as measured by the Directors' Cup is, of course, totally false. Surely you are aware the Ephs have won against many schools with multiple numbers of student/athletes, such as Washington University, Johns Hopkins, MIT, Wisconsin Whitewater, etc.

There always seems to be excuses from the lj nation .....if the facts were ever on your side, you could argue the facts ... in the interim, you're left with continuing to pound the table....

Maybe amh63 is trying to win the rhetoric competition about the Directors' Cup competition?

[jumpshot]

One of the hazards of living in the D.C area, as does amH63, is confusing rhetoric with reality....

[30 for 30]

Matt Hart also making an impression in DC. Mike Lonergan sees him as a rotation player.

Shooting clip attached should come as no surprise to this board.


http://www.gwhatchet.com/2015/06/09/qa-lonergan-talks-offseason-workouts-big-games-and-the-transfer-wire/

https://www.facebook.com/GWMensBasketball

[gordonmann]

I respect and admire Williams' success as an athletic program and congratulate them on the Directors' Cup trophy that should probably just be renamed in the Ephs' honor. But if an athletic program can win three national championships in one season, finish in third in at least three others and STILL not win the Cup, that tells you that there are methodological reasons for how teams fare in this competition.

http://thedirectorscup.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/June4DIII.pdf

[nescac1]

The methodological reasons are pretty simple: the Cup rewards both depth and breadth of accomplishment, but with a larger focus on breadth.  Let's be honest: most people who follow college athletics care a lot more about success in just a few sports (primarily men's basketball and football, followed to a much lesser extent by men's soccer, women's basketball, men's baseball, and men's hockey).  The Cup is, really, a nice way of saying that the sports that receive scant attention, like track and field, wrestling, crew, golf, swimming, and so on, matter too.  And if a school focuses all of its resources on a relatively small number of sports, no matter how well it performs in those sports, it has no chance of winning the Cup -- which again, stands as a refreshing counterpoint to pretty much everything else college athletics has become, in particular the semi-professional nature of the most high-profile sports. 

Not surprised to hear that Matt Hart is impressing.  It is going to be really interesting to follow FOUR former NESCAC players (one of whom sitting out for his transfer year) at high profile D1 gigs next year!  I hope all four succeed, bringing that much more attention to the strength of NESCAC, and D3 hoops more generally.  Sadly, from an Eph fan perspective, I think the NESCAC season may be a lot less interesting to follow, especially compared to this year's total lack of predictability, because the two returning NESCAC finalists Amherst and Wesleyan both return everybody and add some strong talent, and I think will start the season as a top 5, and top 15, team nationally, respectively (I'll share more detailed thoughts on that later this summer, but I think both will stomp all over the competition next season).  Bates and Trinity may still challenge, but both had little margin for error and lose a LOT more than either Amherst or Wesleyan to graduation (and each has no obvious replacements for the guys they are losing), and Williams and Midd are still in major rebuilding mode.  Losing Sabety is a huge blow for Tufts, and Bowdoin also lost some key pieces.  Only Colby strikes me as a really interesting dark horse, but that depends on how healthy the returning injured guys are. 

[gordonmann]

NESCAC 1:

Good take. I just wonder if it punishes programs that can't field teams for geographic or financial reasons in sports like women's rowing, women's hockey, men's and & women's lax, men's and women's golf and men's volleyball (which I didn't even know existed at the NCAA Division III level until 5 minutes ago).

[amh63]

Gordonmann.....I agreed with you on regional/financial points.   Men's volleyball!...that's interesting.  However, due to Title IX, cannot see that becoming a CAC sport....nor men's field hockey.  Now bowling would be something.  Regional limits hinder schools in skiing and sailing...is sailing a D3 sport?
Believe the Director's Cup does limit a schools entries to 9 women and 9 men sports.
There is an irony in the conference with some of the oldest football fields in place that it does not participate in the post season in football.
In my background search for info, I was surprised to read that Amherst, Bowdoin, Wesleyan and Williams were among the initial schools that helped form the NCAA.  Yes....and the first college baseball match was between Amherst and Williams...in Pittsfield, Ma.  Amherst won of course and a later replay game.  There is a marker in Pittsfield of the location of the game.  Maybe near the "beer garden" I sat in while watching a semi-semi pro baseball game many, many years ago.

[gordonmann]

Is sailing a D3 sport?

I was on the freshman crew team at Trinity many moons ago. There's a tradition in crew where the team that loses gives its shirts (t-shirts..not sweaty spandex unitards) to the victors. We beat Coast Guard in my first race and they gave us their shirts. Someone told us we were only allowed to accept them because men's crew is not an NCAA sport so there was no danger of the t-shirts being interpreted as compensation. We also collected shirts from WPI and Wesleyan that year, but gave them away to every other team we faced.

That's all to say, I believe women's crew is an NCAA sport but men's crew is not. Which is good for the Clucketts because they won the national title in crew this year.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Sailing is not an NCAA sports...

Crew is an NCAA championship (and in Division III) in women, but not men, as you noted - but not sure why.

There is also no men's field hockey... HOWEVER, I had a friend in college who tried to challenge that and play on the team (co-ed) since I don't think there were any rules in place at the time (he was a very good player). He was subsequently denied, but it lasted for awhile.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Whitewater scored in 16 of a maximum 18 sports (at least according to the release - I can't make heads of tails of how that translates to the table).  They may not be able to compete on quality with Williams just yet, but they're not having a problem fielding teams.

[Pat Coleman]

Sailing is not an NCAA sports...

Crew is an NCAA championship (and in Division III) in women, but not men, as you noted - but not sure why.

I am sure it's because there aren't enough teams. Crew is often viewed as a Title IX equalizer for schools.

[grabtherim]

Former Middlebury player Andrew Locke '11 doing his best to make the world a better place.  Way to go Andrew.
https://vimeo.com/129616691

[amh63]

Grabtherim....thanks for the link!  Mr Locke seems to be using his Middlebury education and experiences well.  Still has his shot it seems.  Nice to see he is stepping up to his challenges with his eyes open.
One of the reasons that student-athletes like Locke come to CAC schools to play, IMO.