MBB: NESCAC

[eclinchy]

Trinity looked so-so today.  P-Mart and Kino looked really really good, and everyone else was really really bad.  I don't know what's uglier for the Bantams -- the 3-for-14 shooting from R-Mart, or the matching goose eggs for Hoar and Westbrooks.

I'm actually surprised the game was so close for the first 30-35 minutes -- the Bants were out-shot, out-rebounded, and their assist-to-turnover ratio was hideous compared to that of the Jumbos.  I guess it just goes to show how important Kino is... he and Patrick Martin both looked amazing.  Aaron Gallant was massively overmatched by Martin... that was not pretty.

[Red1]

Met and LaVerdad,

I'll give you the push on Olson and Ray.  Ray had better penetration, but he couldn't get the ball in over Hopkins.  Olson didn't get as much penetration, but shot much better.  They were just about the same otherwise.

Also,  The game escalated from 8pts. to 15 in the last minute and a half when Bates was forced to foul and stop the clock and shoot quick 3's to try to get back in it.  As I said in my first post, the game was much closer than the score.  All Bates needed was to keep a little momentum when they got within 4 the one time or 5 the next and that 8 pt. difference goes away.  Unfortunately, Bates was never allowed to gain that momentum, as I explained in my first post.  The final score tells very little of the events of the game.

Cheers,
Red1

[eclinchy]

I think Olson's better than Ray.  He's a better shooter, from what I've seen, and he's smarter.

Stockwell for POY though.  I'll give Bates that.

[formerbant10]

The Trinity technical was on the bench, not the coach.

Westbrooks and Hoar are defensive players, the offense comes from the Martins, Clarke, RT3 and Hasiuk.

Good win for the Jumbos.  Way to bounce back after a tough loss to Amherst.  Showed a lot of fortitude coming back on day 2.

[Jumbos35]

I wonder what the win % looks like for day 2 of the Fri-Sat. games.  My feeling is it should overwhelmingly be in the home team's favor.  Has anybody tracked this?

[JeffRookie2]

Interesting question Jumbos. I know this isnt too in-depth, but last season at least the home team on the Saturday of a fri/sat back-to-back went 15-5, and two of the road-team's wins were by Amherst. In contrast, on the Friday games, the home team was only 10-10. The year before the home team was 13-7 on Saturday and 10-10 again on Friday. This would seem to imply that the home team does indeed have more of an advantage on Saturday then it does on Friday, which is fairly intuitive. Overall, over the last two years, the home team is 28-12 on saturday, for a pretty dominating 70% winning percentage.

[whoarewebobcats]

I was back at the old alma mater for the two big games this weekend, and I thought I'd chip in my two cents about possibly the only two NESCAC games I'll see this year. Naturally, it was a pretty frustrating weekend for me seeing Bates go 0-2 against the two big team in the conference (the Tufts-Trinity game makes me even more nervous...) especially since I've been telling everyone who will listen (and shockingly, not that many people are interested in D3 basketball) that this is Bates' year, if they are ever going to do it.

The Bates-Trinity game was at least entertaining. I'd say Bates and Trinity are even teams, Bates basically lost it at the foul line. I'm not looking at the box scores now, but I'd say Trinity shot better for the game anyway. For a team run by a shooter (Reilly) who consistently recruits what I'd consider to be "shooters" (Gerrity and Furbush, now Wholey and Halloran) and sometimes plays them ahead of better overall players, Bates hasn't shot all that well against good teams. From what I can tell, and I never played at any serious level, I just watch, Bates doesn't run around its screens as well as the great teams do. That's one thing I'll give Gerrity and Furbush credit for (perhaps because of their superior upper body strength, or maybe the big men of their time were better at setting the screens)-- they could get open (enough) for their shots. Wholey can't get open, and his game at Trinity was, in my book, pretty depressing. However, I am admittedly pretty hard on Bryan. He also seems to have changed his shot this year, he shoots from I'd say six inches lower of a slot than last year, and I'm not a fan (he now seems to rush shots to get them off over bigger defenders). Wilson was as good as advertised--very confident for a frosh, I feel very comfortable with him taking the reigns from Zak next year. Zak and Rob played pretty well, Rob actually was excellent, but they couldn't get it to him enough. A nice night all around by Trinity--the bald kid (32?) was fantastic and not ruffled by anything. As strange as it sounds, Stockwell is not only Bates' best player, but also its most improved. Stockwell did everything well--helping on D, instructing guys where to go, extremely smooth (if calculated) offensive game, stronger 3 pt shot, sense of the moment (hitting big shots), even hitting big free throws (his weak point). I was thoroughly impressed with Rob.

The Amherst game wasn't quite as entertaining--it was over after about 5 minutes. With all due respect to Red, who I'm very grateful for given his consistent posting about Bates, the game cannot be blamed in any way on the officiating. Amherst is the best team I've ever seen at this level. Similar to what I just said about Rob, Amherst does everything well--there was literally no flaw in their game. Their offensive system was too much for Bates. Their guards were so quick that Bates needed to put in quicker defenders (at times having Zak, J-Lat, and Wilson on the floor together) out there to keep up, but J-Lat and Wilson often got confused on screens and would go toward the same man, leaving Amherst kids (it seemed like no. 20 in particular) wide open for threes. As it turns out, this is dangerous. The only complaint I have about Zak is that a lot of what makes him great--his trickiness, his ability to watch an entire defense and leave his man to help out, but still being able to get back to him--doesn't work against a great team and a great point guard. Olsen is much better than I remembered him being (as for the NESCAC POY talk, obviously it was only one game but I can't see him getting it simply because Amherst is so deep, it seems like they have about six guys who are equal (the five starters and no. 44). On Bates' offensive end, they couldn't get open, couldn't get the ball underneath to Rob--it was a disaster. Reilly needs to make some additions to the playbook--they've been running basically the same 4-5 plays for years now, and they haven't used a lot of variation. I saw them run a play where Wilson holds the ball on the left, Zak goes around a pick set by Rob at the top of the key, fakes to the basket, cuts back out, gets the ball from Wilson and then either fires a three or tries to dump the ball in to Rob, about 10-12 times this weekend. Without variation. Either toss in a back door cut, or don't run it so much--it's very predictable.

As for good points taken away-- I loved what Wholey did Saturday. As I said before, I'm normally very critical of him, but he did all the "little things". Contesting shots, playing pretty strong D, rotated well, vocal, challenging the Amherst D while the rest of the Bates offense seemed stagnant...even though his box score doesn't look good, I was very happy with him. Also very happy with Jimmy O'Keefe, who's thoroguhly enjoyable to watch. Energetic, physical, decent shot, good composure--once he gets experience, he'll be very good. It also was nice to see quite a few alumni players--Matt Garvey '97, Adam Piandes '96, Jesse Strandberg '97/8, Ramon Garcia (but Ramon's always there ), Victor Rivera '05, and CJ Neely all saw the colossal whupping Amherst laid on Bates. I didn't recognize Jesse at first, but I spotted Garv and Piandes right away (and I was 13 when I watched them play).

Bates is not hopeless by any means, but they're certainly behind the 8-ball at this point. The problem with these "important" games early is they can't really afford to lose mamy more NESCAC games, only one at best, so what happens if Wesleyan or Colby or someone plays them pretty hard and they start pressing themselves? Are they strong enough to override the pressure? Can they grow over the course of the next month to be able to compete with the big boys in the tourney (I say Trinity yes, Amherst no)? Can O'Keefe step up and provide a consistent inside presence next to Rob? Can Wholey and Halloran get open for threes, or at least open up a decent look underneath while trying to do so? Can they employ a single new play? These are questions I'd like to see answered. I still love this team and what Coach Reilly has done with them, it's a shame what happened this weekend and I hope they've learned from it.

[eclinchy]

From my "bold predictions" before this weekend:

Amherst only wins by a combined 19 points

Tufts lost by 4, and Bates by 15.  Where's my standing ovation?

[nescac1]

According to someone on the football board, a 7'0 250 lb. kid will play hoops for Bates next year.  Here is all I could find on him:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/highschool/sfl-shandel19dec19,0,5561686.column

If those number are for real, he must have zero coordination if he is going Division III at that size (think Eric Gingold, who at 7'3 couldn't get off the bench at Williams).  Still, that should be interesting ...

[Friar T]

Big ups to Eclinchy and FormerBants on their predections. Can't believe the Methodists topped the Camels, but with Rob Kelly dropping 30 and 10 I suppose they may have gotten the better of a few teams that night.

Red1, you're the only person I've ever heard say they're not impressed with Olson. The kid is an absolute stud and could easily win NESCAC POY. He really is the key to the Jeffs success, and if they dominate the rest of the year as they should, and he continues to produce the way he has, why shouldn't he get it? Granted, if Stockwell follows in Rhoten's footsteps and drops 20 and 10 on everyone, an easy case is made for him as well.

Also, I didn't see the game, but looking at the box score, Olson outplayed Ray by far. 2 for 11 with 4 TOs? Hardly a solid game...

I'm not sure how to feel about the Jeffs giving up 24 offensive boards to Bates. They still won by 15 and seemed to be in control most of the game, but they may have something more to do with the Bobcats shooting 27% in the second half.

Very impressed with Midd and Williams protecting home court. Makes me question the toughness of the Maine squads though (0-6 on the weekend).

[CCsalive]

Tough to stomach a 1-pt loss by the Camels to Wes...the Camels travel to Maine this weekend, not a trip you want to make at 0-1...who is this Rob Kelly dropping 30 and 10? I don't remember him.

[nescacfan33]

I finally saw my first NESCAC game this weekend at WES....use to follow WES a lot over the last few years......Rob Kelly was a 16 ppg 10 reb guy two years ago, then he was academically suspended from Wesleyan last year before he returned this year to finish his career.....as of what I saw against Conn College, he is not as explosive and quick as he once was, also he doesn't really get many blocks anymore, he had plenty of them two years ago....but 30 pts and 10 boards says enough.....he can finish around the basket and hits tons of difficult falling away post shots....he pump fakes and pump fakes, then pump fakes again, and then finally goes up with it.....that being said, his defense leaves a lot to  be desired....if he can become a major force on the defensive end as well, then why not include him in the likes of Cohen, Stockwell, Russ Martin etc...WES looked pretty good. but they don't have much in the way of scoring options (only four guys scored on Sat!!!) and they often have long lapses on the defensive end.....Ashe had a good floor game on Sat and though he too looks to be a bit older and slower than I remember, he can certainly hold his own with the best guards in the league.....he is one of the best, if not the best, defensive guys in the league.....Pelletier can be good, but he needs to play a bit stronger for the type of size he has.....he shot the 3 well vs. the camels. All in all though there depth is very questionable and they don't have tons of shooters. But they grind it out

Stone is VERY good. Clearly the center piece for the Camels that scores, rebounds, passes. He had 7 points in the first 3 min of the game. But come crunch time he was a bit passive and he missed some big shots while R.Kelly killed him on the other end of the floor. The rest of the Camels are good role guys for now, Young looked to be ready for a breakout but overall rusty. CC didn't play a very smart game, and they probably should have won on Sat. They will be just fine in the league if they continue to run that princeton offense. Their D needs to pick up though.

I could see both teams making the playoffs, but this Maine weekend will mean a lot.

Lastly, Ray for POY? Are you serious?? The Bobcats had a great non-conference start to the year no question about it. He is a great floor leader that does a bit of everything, and he is an amazing defensive guy. But a guy that averages under 9 ppg, shoots 39% from the field, 27% from three, and 3 rpg is not a POY candidate. He can make one of the all-conference teams with that (maybe), but not be considered a POY.

[WeezyFBaby]

Great weekend for Middlebury. About Saturday: Bowdoin will have a lot of trouble winning NESCAC games. There's not a lot of talent there. But still, Middlebury took care of business and had them down 30 the whole game. That's what good teams do and what Middlebury hasn't done in years past. This is a different team.

Aaron Smith deserves to be in the conversation of best big men in the NESCAC. He's young and new on the scene, but ask Drew Cohen and Colby's coach, who doubled down on him to give Cohen help.

This weekend will be very interesting. When Middlebury gets out on the break (50 fast break points against Bowdoin Saturday), they are very tough to stop with athletes running to the rim and shooters filling the wings, and Ben Rudin orchestrating it all.

I kept silent when Amherst posters were talking about whether or not teams would come within 20 of them. Last year when Amherst was ranked 8th and the two teams played in Vermont, it was neck and neck before Amherst ended up winning by 8 or something. It will be a very well-played, very entertaining game. Some of us Middlebury fans might even travel down. What are you Amherst fans thinking of the matchup? FriarT? Historian?

eclinchy: I read your post on the NE region page "if you think Middlebury is better than Tufts you're out of your mind." You sound quite foolish. You haven't seen Middlebury play yet so...how could you know something like that buddy? Wait until the two teams play please.

[Old Guy]

I don't see how Trinity and Bates are "even" at this point (wherearewebobcats). I grew up in Lewiston, learned to play basketball in the Bates gym. It's a beautiful old gym, a throwback, a bandbox. It's also a HUGE homecourt advantage. The Bobcats have no varsity ice hockey team: Bates kids love their hoops, fill the place, go crazy at games. The CBB games in that gym are extreme, exhausting, terrific.

I look forward to seeing Bates in three weeks at Middlebury, watching Stockwell and Ray again. I think Middlebury has a chance against them at home (Midd has Amherst and Tufts away this weekend - I hope they acquit themselves well). Middlebury can score: 26-53 from the three point line against Bowdoin and Colby; eight different players. Stockwell seems a ligit POY - he plays the whole floor. I think Cohen did not enhance his POY credential this past weekend.

As an old DIII hooper, I want to come back in my next life as Kino Clark. That would be a lot of fun.

[formerbant10]

I figured that Kelly would be the difference in the game, but I didn't realize he'd score 30 out of the 62 points....that's absurd.  Kelly had a great year 2 seasons ago and looks like he's picking up where he left off.

Old Guy,

Middlebury visits Amherst and Trnity, not Tufts.

There are many reasons to want to come back as Kino.  Basketball is not the only thing he excels at.  But watching him in the open floor on the court, I certainly know what you are talking about.  When he gets going, he is one of the most exciting players to watch.