MBB: NESCAC

[Pat Coleman]

As long as they call themselves the Engineers, amh63, that's what we will call them. Unless they change their name and go without one for a year, in which case we might call them something else in the interim.

It doesn't matter what they use as the graphic representation of their name, so long as they call themselves Engineers.

[amh63]

Pat C.....the announcers may call MIT the "Engineers" vice the Beavers but the alums fondly refer to themselves somewhat differently.  I am an alum of MIT...two graduate degrees from MIT...and wear at times my MIT ring with a beaver on it.  Have a number of classmates/friends that are graduates of MIT from the Business School, Architecture School, etc.....and do not consider themselves "Engineers".  Some Amherst alums that won Nobel prizes in physics, economics via MIT do not refer to themselves as engineers.  Otherwise, just pulling your chain a bit here.
I will ask Amherst's new head of admissions that was MIT's director of Admission several questions the next time I'm up at Amherst.  First, how did his office handle the MBB talent that is at MIT...given the course load, etc at the school.  Second, do the undergrads consider themselves "Engineers" given the diversity of majors in the school...I.e. mathematicians and STEM type majors.

[nescac1]

From elsewhere in D3, check out this insane play by a North Central player (which has had a crazy year in terms of weird injuries).  This guy was fortunately OK ... somehow. 

https://twitter.com/Skubie3Mageza/status/1080664665770942464

[rlk]

Pat C.....the announcers may call MIT the "Engineers" vice the Beavers but the alums fondly refer to themselves somewhat differently.  I am an alum of MIT...two graduate degrees from MIT...and wear at times my MIT ring with a beaver on it.  Have a number of classmates/friends that are graduates of MIT from the Business School, Architecture School, etc.....and do not consider themselves "Engineers".  Some Amherst alums that won Nobel prizes in physics, economics via MIT do not refer to themselves as engineers.  Otherwise, just pulling your chain a bit here.
I will ask Amherst's new head of admissions that was MIT's director of Admission several questions the next time I'm up at Amherst.  First, how did his office handle the MBB talent that is at MIT...given the course load, etc at the school.  Second, do the undergrads consider themselves "Engineers" given the diversity of majors in the school...I.e. mathematicians and STEM type majors.

*ahem*

We are, we are, we are, we are, we are the ENGINEERS
We can, we can, we can, we can, demolish 40 beers
Drink up, drink up, drink up, drink up, and come along with us
For we don't give a d*mn for any old man who don't give a d*mn for us!

Mascot != team name.  I've never heard anyone refer to WPI as the Goats.  And actually, those aren't the only two NEWMAC teams with matching names.  There are also the Wheaton and Mt. Holyoke Lyons, and (at least homophonically) the Emerson Lions.

But back to hoops...I was at the game, and I certainly was pleased with the outcome!

[JEFFFAN]

Oh, come on, jefffan ---

NESCAC regular season and tournament titles are simply a partial metric. For example, in the period to which you refer, Williams has more Final Four appearances, amHerst has never beaten the EPHS in the NCAA tournament, have lost twice to Williams in Salem, etc.,etc. There are numerous other prominent NESCAC coaches, including one who won twenty consecutive games (two a year for ten straight years) versus amHerst.

Hardly dominant as you attempt to imply ....nice try to change the subject ... or deflect focus on the issue on the table.

Glad to know you're still capable of learning though ....

It is important to not let facts get in the way of a good opinion, but let me try to add some facts to this and then it can be put to bed.

Since 2001, which as far as I can tell from the archives is as far back as NESCAC basketball goes, Amherst has won the regular season seven times, tied for the regular season title three times, and won the NESCAC championship seven times.    Williams has won the regular season title three times, tied for the regular season championship four times, and won the NESCAC championship five times.  So, to repeat the mat, 7-3-7 for Amherst.   For Williams, 3-4-5.   Any questions on the records?

What that says to me is that Hixon, among other attributes, has figured out how to schedule for success.   Who are we, really, to question scheduling when those top of the NESCAC results occur?

Back to this season ....

[nescac1]

NESCAC basketball did exist before 2001, Jefffan, although there was no NESCAC tounrey before then.  Since NESCAC was NCAA eligible in 1993, Williams has the most final four appearances and does have the 5-0 record vs. Amherst in NCAA action.  Amherst has as Jefffan notes the better record in NESCAC tourney play since it began (but of course Williams was the dominant force in NESCAC from 1995-1998, when there was no NESCAC tourney), and Amherst has the two national titles, which is massive.  Williams will need a second national title or at least 2-3 more NESCAC titles and/or Final Fours before it can challenge Amherst's throne.  Midd is a strong third right now in terms of NESCAC programs, and no one else is remotely close.   

Jefffan is right that whatever you can say about Hixon's scheduling, it has not hurt the team from being extraordinarily successful for a very long period of time, and the most successful overall program in NESCAC since the start of the league tourney.  I don't think anyone is claiming (at least not me) that playing a poor schedule has in any way hurt Amherst's late-season success.  There are enough competitive NESCAC games in any given year, it seems, to prepare for elite teams in the NCAA tourney, regardless of non-league scheduling. 

But the last two years, Amherst really has played a brutally awful schedule, heavy on home games and many really awful opponents, which isn't fun from a competitive standpoint, or at least one would think ... part of the problem is that some of the better programs that Amherst has regularly played, Brandeis and RIC, have fallen on hard times in recent seasons.  But I just can't understand why Amherst would want to go to the middle-of-nowhere in Pennsylvania to play one game vs. an 0-12 team over Christmas Break.  What is the upside there???  I promise that LOADS of better teams in better locations would love to host Amherst in a holiday tournmanet.  That being said, Amherst looks good this year and the team has proven in past years that it need not play strong teams in the first semester to be ready for NESCAC-level competition. 

[Mountain Man]

Middlebury-Swarthmore.  Midd played well unlike their return from break last year. That was a net positive. Farrell triple teamed had Folger all alone at left elbow 3 point stripe but head down tried to be hero. Needed the heroics from him to take late lead but with lead he needs to pass out of double & triple teams. His seasoning is happening. Great guard potential at Midd. Next time they work the clock a bit better with their 5 point lead & get a better shot. they were outscored 7-0 to end game.

Hamilton-Keene State fine win for Hamilton. Gilmour 28. Stud. POY

Hamilton now nudges out Williams on my rankings due to strength of schedule and that pesky ball handling issue at Williams that I highlighted in NOVEMBER the loss of Greenman while Casey would be forced to handle more which would be burden against better teams. I also pointed out Spivy long before the board. I live 15 minutes from Williams. I might not write 6 paragraphs a week exalting all their strengths BUT I know them. They are dominant in the half-court. Their weaknesses are foot speed & ball handling. Foot speed can hurt you on defense and team rebounding/loose balls.

Ryan Scott said same thing. common denominator, we both have seen Williams in person this year.  Ball handling problems and you have yet to play a team prepared to beat you. Springfield & Wesleyan were still adjusting in early scheduled games. Now let's consider FOUL TROUBLE. That has NOT HAPPENED yet. That will expose the bench.

I gave you Alex Sobel as my Rookie of Year in November complete with high school video as he was best passing big man on LI. as 3rd big man on Midd, I expected him to get playing time to showcase his skill set. He has soft touch with both hands, post with good footwork. Excellent shot blocker & passer. Needs to improve strength for rebounding & defensive foot speed. learning the conference is always tough for freshman. he has held his own thus far

Contrasts of styles is VERY COMPELLING:  Midd vs. Williams & Hamilton vs. Williams  Wesleyan vs. Midd  Hamilton vs. Wesleyan
Similar styles is also Very compelling: Hamilton vs. Midd  Wesleyan vs. Williams

Predictions:  I think only Hamilton, Midd or Wesleyan can beat Williams. I favor Williams in all those games because it is much easier to dictate a half court tempo than a fast paced tempo. If Williams bench can develop, I think they can win a national title. So much balance in the starting lineup where Hamilton or Midd at a faster pace, you can disrupt them. Williams just has too may All conference potential weapons to ever be shut down for long periods.

Amherst & Tufts will be pesky at home but inconsistent I see a clear dichotomy between Top 4 teams & the rest. I would also like to see Colby in person. The Mules may have more than meets the eye

Fun fun fun.  i wish everyone & their teams well. This is what warms my winter. Basketball in D3's top conference

[Conts Fan]

I would think that the quality of the athletes that Amherst and Williams bring in every year has a lot more to do with their respective histories of success than whoever ends up on their out-of-conference schedules. Speaking of schedules...it was nice to see Hamilton play a decent/good team today. I think it started out 16-0 or so but it trickled down to a single basket a couple times.

[nescac1]

That's an awful lot of self-congratulation for so early in the season, Mountain Man ... but I can't say you are wrong on anything !

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I heard around the Swarthmore gym how much they wanted Sobel - recruited him hard is the word.  Swat could use a couple more big guys, too.

[middhoops]

That's some fun reading you throw out there, Mountain Man.  Keep it coming.

Calling Amherst "pesky" at home may be understating the case, a bit.
By the time NESCAC season rolls around, Hixon seems to have his team ready to compete.
Tufts appears to be suffering from a loss of experienced players, but Amherst is going to be a tough out for everyone.  Even Williams at home.
I hear they have a history, or something.

[AllStar]

Hamilton-Keene State fine win for Hamilton. Gilmour 28. Stud. POY

Good luck to Hamilton in the rest of the season, MountainMan!

[amh63]

Nescac competition starts today!  Unfortunately, most games I want to watch begin about the same time....including both the Amherst WBB and MBB games.  Really miss the days when both teams followed one another...on the same floor.  All well....feast or famine.
rik...nice that you got to watch MIT in Cambridge.   The site has been upgraded well.  Remember watching my first compititive badminton match in the building.  The whole area...Kendall Square...has/will be transformed...Admission and Museum sites, etc.  But you know!
Mountain Man....do you reside in Old Bennington by chance?  Lovely area and the site where Robert Frost's family Rest In Peace.

[MiddWatcher]

Agreed with all, including the Man of the Mountain : )  After watching Union give Williams a bit of trouble by going even further OUT to get to threes, I was thinking maybe someone could come along and stretch the Ephs way out defensively and hit 'em NBA-style with threes and dribble drives ....  so, along comes Moravian with gaudy three point numbers ( 17 of 26 in one game last week ). So, maybe....  Williams holds them to 9 - 39 ( 23 % ) from deep. Gulp.  Not enough attention, perhaps, given to Williams' defensive length. For a D3 team, it is remarkable. And Coach App sprinkles in just enough extended zones to keep opponents guessing. Very, very impressive. But, lots of things can happen along the way. Season starts tonight : )  I liked the commentary re: blocked shots, earlier in this blog.  But it may be one of those anomalies where even statistics do not tell the whole truth. For example, heading into New Year's Day game, Middlebury and SUNY Canton were tied for 7th. nationally ( out of 416 ! ) in blocked shots. Williams was 41st. But Williams " Affects " more shots than any other team, I can almost guarantee it. Everything that an opponent attempts gets affected by Williams' defensive presence, inside or out. So, they may be 41st. but it is a strong 41st !!   And who was just ahead of Midd and SUNY Canton ? Grinnell.  Grinnell ?  They of the " Give up a layup, we'll come back and hit a three ".  And their blocked shot leader ( with 36 ) is a 5 foot 8 inch senior guard !!  Sometimes, you have to love Division III. It produces remarkable stuff.  Happy New Year and Happy NESCAC season !PS - I will pull a rabbit out of the hat and offer a  ' dark horse ' to stretch the Williams' D with long range threes:   Tommy Mobley, at Amherst. Hasn't played a whole lot in 2.5 seasons, but he has deep, deep range and will fire away with accuracy. Saw him hit for 26 one night vs. a very strong NEPSAC AAA team ( the best one ). He can do it. But they do have a lot of guards in the Mammoth house.

[amh63]

MiddWatcher.....interesting post wrt T. Mobley.  Two games ago Mr. Mobley enter the game and made some nice 3-point shots...3 in a row to break open the game.  Has a quick release and does play defense much better these days.  Mobley was set to come in for a bit in the Keystone game but Hixon thought better of it.  Did not need his shots, IMO, but wanted to see him play with the younger players in defensive sets against quick fast opponents.