MBB: NESCAC

[eclinchy]

I know how the teams worked, I was just doing it my way because it was more fun.

Secondly, don't get geeked by one good game by a player....this is a season long recognition award.

Is that because of my high ranking of Bausky?  Because I honestly believe he's more talented than anybody on that team, save for probably Olson.  Just because he doesn't start doesn't mean he's not incredibly good.

I know the board is pretty Amherst-heavy, but I'm confused about the criticism of their schedule. Is it really any different from anyone else's? Aren't most teams' non-conference schedules comprised of predominantly inferior teams because the NESCAC is a strong conference? Why are we picking on Amherst?

I agree, but I'd also like to point out that Tufts stands alone above Amherst, Bates and Trinity.  The Jumbos are the only one that plays William Paterson, they're the only one that plays Keene State, and so far, they're the only one that's played RIC.

[hoopjunkie]

Sorry La Verdad I just don`t think Tim McLaughlin is any more than a role player .

I have seen him play now 4 times & there is nothing special about him .

I did as you said & I checked his stat line . 10 point average , 2 assists & 2 steals a game .

THOSE ARE HIS IMMPRESSIVE STATS ?? Sorry can`t get down on you about this guy .

If there was a third team in the Nescac I could give you 10 guys over him .

[whoarewebobcats]

Is there anywhere where people keep track of players who have committed to coming to schools? I'm sure a lot of decisions haven't been made yet, but when someone in here mentioned the big kid from Florida that committed to Bates, I wondered if there was any central location for that kind of information?

[Friar T]

Really hoopjunkie, could you limit your posts to coherant thoughts? "A mere 2 steals a game?" Are you serious? The best players in the NBA and Division I don't average much more than 3!?!?! That's just a foolish statement.

McLaughlin is real good. Period. He is one of several players capable of leading the best team in the league in scoring (5 times this year), and the real reason he's on the floor is his defensive ability. Enough said.

As for you rating O'Shea among our best players? It's already been established that the Jeffs play center-by-committee, with O'Shea averaging fewer points than Hopkins and fewer boards than BJones. To mention one of these three without the other two, is to have your opinion on the team excluded from rational converstation. No hating on my boy O'Shea though, dude is smoother than asian silk with the ladies and has mean flow...

Tufts' schedule is looking less impressive now that William Paterson has lost 5 of their last 6...

[hoopjunkie]

Hey Friar you sound like a real angry dude . There are 15 guys in the Nescac
that  are averaging 1.4 steals per game , so your boy Mclaughlin is not the second
coming of Clyde Frazier.
Secondly the centers on Amherst are so boring & non descript "by committe " means
there none really good enough to make a difference.

[nescac1]

My mistake on Amherst's schedule: the two toughest games left are on the road.  Still be shocked if they lost either.   

Tufts still has by FAR the toughest schedule in NESCAC ... RIC, Brandeis, Keene are all top-10 N.E. teams, and the rest of their New England games feature no gimmees but rather solid teams like Lasell, UMass Dartmouth and UMass Boston.   None of the regional bottom feeders to be found.  And those two NJ teams are still tough out of region road games.  The schedule should serve Tufts well in the NCAA's if they make it, but it may have been a little over-ambitious to play so many quality opponents early on.  Ideally you want to push your team with some tough competition, but schedule a few "breather" games as well to help find your rhythm and build up some wings. 

bobcats, I am pretty sure there is no central recruiting source like that.  one guy late in the spring (an assistant coach named Sully) usually compiles a list of New England high schooler destinations, but that is never totally complete and only deals with a few states in any event.  It's not like Division I where there are binding commitments, and coaches aren't even allowed to comment on committed players (at least in NESCAC and maybe all of Division III) so it's pretty much what is reported in local newspapers and word of mouth ... occasionally a guy like Bennett for Amherst will get mentioned on a recruiting site, but that is very, very rare for a Division III player.  I can't recall any Williams player, even guys like Crotty, who was ever tracked in a recruiting database like that. 

[hoopjunkie]

Great post Nescac1 on the strength of Tufts schedule . I believe alot of teams
have peaks & valleys throughout the long season .

Depending when in the season you play an opponent , that will determine your success .
Also what Ive heard if anyone has heard of this .
I heard William Patterson kept
alot of great talent off the team in the first semester , so they would be eliglible
to play 2nd semester & not flunk off the team .
Has any experienced anything like this ??

[nescac hoops]

whoarewebobcats,

my comments were not directed towards amherst players in regards to their schedule. amherst players have no control over that. it is a slight jab at hixon's scheduling, but like you said, there just are not enough good team outside of the NESCAC in NE to comprise a completely tough out of conference schedule, however i still think he could have a slightly tougher schedule. my real "beef" is with amherst posters who come on here after games with such teams as nycc, elms, wnec, etc. (who may be the only team hixon is able to find who are willing to play the jeffs, which is fine) and talk about how great amherst and its players looked. my point is, who cares about performances against such teams - yes, olson's 15 assists is quite a perfomance, fine. but to gloat on how hopkins beat players up and down the floor and how amherst was able to convert on more than 60% of it's 3 pt. attempts against such teams that probably don't have the size or athleticism that amherst does, thus allowing the jeffs to have open looks or allowing them to simply be able to shoot over opponents. my point is, who cares? did, or will olson, ever have 15 assists and only 1 turnover against anybody in the NESCAC (maybe wesley or conn) - no! will amherst ever shoot over 60% from 3 pt. land with a statistically significant number of attempts - unlikely unless they are REALLY hot.

mrmike,
the year after williams lost crotty, coffin, abba - kain (started), cole (started), and graham (who would have been a started on most any other team), and newton still remained - with the exception of kain and cole, these were not quite the biggest components of those two great williams teams but nevertheless big players, especially kain and cole. that year they finished 5 or 6th that year and the same last year, and most likely the finish there this year. the year after the big 3 left, williams should have still been a little better than they were with kain, cole, graham, newton, and a solid freshman in rose and shalvoy. however, sometimes graduation of certain players causes a team to lose chemistry, leadership, etc. in addition to the skill crotty, abba, and coffin had. all in all, i don't think you can predict how a team will be based on a previous year, even if some of the major components remain. elms comes from a weak conference where any team (who ever won their conference last year or the year before) can get one or two players in who can come possibly bring a last place team to the ncaa tourny - not the case with the nescac, where progarams can not have such a quick turnaround given the depth and skill of NESCAC contenders.

[dman]

eclinchy,
  williams plays at keene state on jan. 30.....

[formerbant10]

I know how the teams worked, I was just doing it my way because it was more fun.

Secondly, don't get geeked by one good game by a player....this is a season long recognition award.

Is that because of my high ranking of Bausky?  Because I honestly believe he's more talented than anybody on that team, save for probably Olson.  Just because he doesn't start doesn't mean he's not incredibly good.

I know the board is pretty Amherst-heavy, but I'm confused about the criticism of their schedule. Is it really any different from anyone else's? Aren't most teams' non-conference schedules comprised of predominantly inferior teams because the NESCAC is a strong conference? Why are we picking on Amherst?

I agree, but I'd also like to point out that Tufts stands alone above Amherst, Bates and Trinity.  The Jumbos are the only one that plays William Paterson, they're the only one that plays Keene State, and so far, they're the only one that's played RIC.

Scheduling is a two way street.  Not everybody wants to get pounded by Amherst when they think they have a shot at beating somebody else.

And it seems like you're basing your judgement of a player on one particular night....get a little more perspective.  See some more teams...see a guy play 2 or 3 times before you really judge them. 

[eclinchy]

Sorry La Verdad I just don`t think Tim McLaughlin is any more than a role player .

I have seen him play now 4 times & there is nothing special about him .

I did as you said & I checked his stat line . 10 point average , 2 assists & 2 steals a game.

The beauty of that Amherst team is that there are no superstars -- it's 13 role players, and they all do their job really well.

I remember looking through the stats a week or two ago, and seeing that of the 20 top scorers in the league, ZERO were from Amherst.  I don't know if that's still true, but it was really impressive at the time.

eclinchy,
  williams plays at keene state on jan. 30.....

Right, but read my post.  I said Tufts stands above Amherst, Bates and Trinity.  I never said anything about Williams.  I stand by my original statement (Paterson may be in a slump, but they were ranked top-10 nationally when the Jumbos played them).

And formerbant, can you be more specific?  Who are you talking about, Baskauskas or somebody else?  Regardless, I think you're underrating the importance of looking at stats... I look over box scores for a lot of games, even though I admit I've only seen Baskauskas once, as opposed to the four times I've seen Olson/Wheeler/T-Mac/O'Shea/etc.

[Friar T]

Hoopjunkie, I'm a holy man. Anger is not in my nature. I just have little tolerance for foolishess...

You clearly have a low opinion of the Jeffs, and that's fine. I'm not here to tell you how to think. However, to call any group of people that can provide the highlight reel dunks that Hopkins and Jones can, "boring and non-descript" is kind of silly as well. It's one thing to play home team, it's another to wear blinders...

Eclinchy, great call on the Jeffs' balance. So many different guys can lead them in scoring on any given night...

Nescac Hoops, good call on some of the commentary. I'd still like you to show Olson's accomplishment a bit more respect, but I too don't find much pride in the Jeffs running up and down the court with a subpar opponent. Elms' tempo of play set the scene for some serious highlight-reel type plays for Amherst, and these should all be referred to in what our boy Walzy has deemed "Fluff sections." I'm sure everyone wants to hear about Olson throwing a 40-ft. lob to Hopkins for the jam, but it should be looked at in context.

60% is still DRAINING from three. However, my guess is that most of their open looks came in transition and were pot shots. No one in the NESCAC runs like Elms does so this type of performance isn't likely against one of them. Here's to hoping that the fire carries over to tomorrow against Midd. and the Jeffs prove me wrong...

Depending when in the season you play an opponent , that will determine your success .
Also what Ive heard if anyone has heard of this .
I heard William Patterson kept
alot of great talent off the team in the first semester , so they would be eliglible
to play 2nd semester & not flunk off the team .
Has any experienced anything like this ??

I'm not even sure what this means, but if I'm reading it right, it means that WP didn't even have their best players when facing Tufts? I'm really not sure, I can't read German...

[The Historian]

Sorry, folks.  I've been away on business.  I know at least some of you have been missing me.

As for the Olson assists thing, here are the numbers on single game assists that I've compiled from everyone over the past few weeks.  Let me stress that these numbers came from all of you.  If I'm missing someone or have faulty numbers, please don't call me an idiot.  Just give me the new numbers and I'll update the records I'm keeping.

21 – Joe Hourihan, Trinity, twice
16 – Daryl Brown, Tufts, 1977
15 – Andrew Olson, Amherst, 2007
15 – Dennis Jacobi, Bowdoin, 1991
15 – Chris Kiristy, Bowdoin, 1987
15 – Jesse Farrell, Trinity, 2002
15 – Chad Onofrio, Tufts, 1994
15 – Darrell Akins, Bates, 1990

With that taken care of, let me just say schedule schmedule.  This is an impossible issue to argue in the NE from either side.  Maybe Hixon should have scheduled Lassell this year.  I hear they're good, dropping 26 point victories all over the place.  Then again, Amherst beat them by 23 last year.  Damned if you do, damned if you don't.  Just too bad the Jeffs have to play poor-Salem-prepper Williams again this weekend.

hoopjunkie, which game did you see Amherst play?  I'm curious about how you formed your impressions of McLaughlin and our big-man committee.  I've only seen about 70% of all of Amherst's games over the past 4 or 5 years, so I might not be in a position to say, but I think McLaughlin is perhaps second only to Olson in terms of overall importance to Amherst--i.e. leadership, intensity, defensive tenacity, ability to hit the big shot, consistency, unselfishness, etc.  And as far as big men go, all three (O'Shea, Jones, and Hopkins) play because they're all good enough to play.  I think that more than a few NESCAC teams would take either of them.

Also, I'm curious, Pat (and others with a vote), about the national poll.  Don't worry, I'm not going to hate on Stevens Point or even argue that Amherst should be number one.  But what's your perspective on Amherst continuing to lose few points each week?  Do you think that some voters saw the OT win at Tufts as a negative?  If so, do you think that many realize that Amherst is playing without 2 of its starters?  Are there other top 10 teams playing without 40% of their starting rotation?  In my admittedly biased opinion, this is a greatly under-appreciated aspect of what Amherst has been dealing with.

Also, just a quick shout-out to NESCAC again for its Directors Cup success.  After the fall season, Amherst is 4th, Williams 6th, Middlebury 7th, Bowdoin 34th, Wesleyan 53rd, and Tufts 67th.

[eclinchy]

I thought Williams was supposed to win the Director's Cup every year.  What's with this sixth nonsense?

[CCsalive]

I forget who posted it, but this was great:

There are 15 guys in the Nescac that  are averaging 1.4 steals per game , so your boy Mclaughlin is not the second coming of Clyde Frazier.