MBB: NESCAC

[Greek Tragedy]

As I write this Demers has recently been named to the NABC All-American Third Team. The stats that he put up this season were very impressive and he deserves any recognition that he receives. He was POY in an above average conference (CCC), but his team finished 13-14 and in 8th place (out of 9 teams) in the conference and they did not participate in postseason play.

Bradley was also POY (in the LEC) and it is debatable as to which conference is better. He led his team to a conference regular season and tournament championship, and an automatic bid to the NCAA tournament.

I guess a follow up question is if Demers is more deserving of an All-American spot than Jefferson. I think POY carries a lot of weight at the D3 level, compared to strength of conference and regular/postseason team success.

We could argue this until we're blue in the face and I don't plan on it. I'm not in the NE, so you'd probably know better than me. You can say they were 8th out of 9th, which can arguably be true. However, they were the 6th seed after three teams finished with the same record. You could also say they were just one game out of 4th. So, it's not like Gordon stunk it up, finished 2-14 and one game ahead of last place Curry.  On the other hand, in the OAC, Mt. Union's Bower-Malone was named POTY with 17.6 pts, 4.3 rebs and 5.6 assists. Marcus Dempsey averaged 30.6 and 5.3 rebs a game. But, Mt. Union went 17-1 and Dempsey's Muskingum finished dead last at 3-15. Had Gordon finished with Curry's 1-15 record, Demers probably wouldn't have won POTY, IMO.

I'm guessing the voting for CCC POTY was pretty close. One could definitely argue that Keith Brown could've gotten it because Endicott (#1 seed) shared the title with Nichols. Brown averaged 21.6 pts and 6.8 rebs a game while Nichols' DeAnte Bruton averaged 23.0 and 5.7 a game. As I said previously, hard to look past averaging 32.4 a game, no matter what conference you're playing in.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

POY does matter when you're in a conference with another AA candidate who's team made the NCAA tournament.  DeAnte Bruton is a darn good player and the CCC coaches chose Demers as POY.  That's when it means something.

There are other things to say, many of which have already been said.

[SpringSt7]

I would actually argue that Amherst is the clear favorite heading into next season. For starters, they'll have 40 minutes of first-team all league guard play running the show, and probably at least 25 or so of those minutes will feature Day and Robinson on the court together. Robinson's health is obviously the big if, but even if he doesn't return to his sophomore year form, he's still a damn good second guard to have. They return all of their shooters from a team that shot 40% from three, and while Sellew and Cherry are losses that will be felt, they are pretty par for the course at a program like Amherst.

Next year the Mammoths will have a clear top 8---Day/Robinson/Allen, McCarthy/Phelan/Che, Schretter/Harlan---hopefully with that will come a better understanding of roles and what not, plus the fact that the 6 front court guys have a whole lot of minutes under their belts now that should translate into legit experience. Plus, Hixon coming back should only help.

Tufts and Middlebury bring a lot back as well, but Savage is a huge loss---Aronson/Cohen will be asked to make much more consistent plays off the dribble, while Middlebury's preview has nothing to do with talent. They should be stacked again, but they will have no one on the roster who has won a NESCAC tournament game. They just need to put it all together. Sobel coming back should help, although I think there is an argument to be made that his presence could take away from Eastman, who was a top 3 player in the league after Sobel's departure. If he came back and was used much in the way Colby used Dean Weiner this year, that might be the best way to optimize him.

[Bucket]

NESCAC1 ... let the lacrosse thing play out.  The information reported is not accurate - what a shocker - and we are now in Duke 2006 territory, where the reported information was entirely inconsistent with the facts.   Some mistakes were made but it needs to play out.  And trust me Amherst will not remotely bend toward the athletes over non-athletes on such matters  The good news, if you will, is that this is 100% lacrosse related - no other students were involved.

Well, the lacrosse "thing" has played out.

JT has been fired and the school has banned the program from postseason play in 20-21:

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/breaking-amherst-parts-ways-with-jon-thompson-team-will-not-play-in-2021-postseason/56198

[jayhawk]

Amherst College Website Statement on lacorsse
http://athletics.amherst.edu/general/2019-20/releases/20200320qt507l

The president had not choice here but to do the right thing

[JEFFFAN]

Well, generally speaking, yes, it is better to the right thing than the wrong thing so kudos to the president for that.  She earned her paycheck for doing right.   The issue is that the facts aren't out there in public nor should they be.    Suffice to say there is a huge constituency that believes he got scapegoated and that the players should've been expelled.   Tough to be an athlete at the absurd Petri dish that my alma mater has become.

[nescac1]

That the coach got scapegoated?  If there was one incident, I get it, but it kind of sounds like a three (or more!) strikes kind of deal regarding player misconduct, at least taking the Amherst statement at face value ...

[JEFFFAN]

Honestly ... I've heard different versions and despite my last snarky post I'm tending to believe the administration version.   I know that athletes are despised at Amherst by the other students - or maybe disliked / disrespected - but Amherst isn't afraid to win.   Nothing about their run of damn good sports suggests that they are averse to trying to be very good in athletics.   And they were excellent in lacrosse so me thinks where there was smoke there was fire.  You don't fire an NCAA championship runner up coach easily. 

I just don't like the way athletes are treated there.

[toad22]

We are dealing with young men. Lots of testosterone, and perhaps lots of alcohol too. I find this very disturbing, but not really very surprising. This could happen at any of our campuses. Coaches play a huge role in determining the kind of team culture that gets created. Ultimately, the buck stops with them.

[jumpshot]

...absurd petri dish ... ? take a deep breath, JEFFFAN

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Honestly ... I've heard different versions and despite my last snarky post I'm tending to believe the administration version.   I know that athletes are despised at Amherst by the other students - or maybe disliked / disrespected - but Amherst isn't afraid to win.   Nothing about their run of damn good sports suggests that they are averse to trying to be very good in athletics.   And they were excellent in lacrosse so me thinks where there was smoke there was fire.  You don't fire an NCAA championship runner up coach easily. 

I just don't like the way athletes are treated there.

The campus has a lot of athletes and 80% of students are active in some kind of athletic item or another (i.e. varsity teams, intramurals, etc.). I find it odd if athletes in general are "despised" on the campus .. especially when most of them are some of the highest performing students on campus as well.

Now, if we are talking about the lacrosse team based on what I read from the Amherst administration ... I completely get them being despised. I have spent my time around enough teams that act like they "own the place" and whatnot and it is frustrating to say the least. I appreciate that Amherst realized the "culture" of the team starts at the top ... and I've known many a coach who should have been fired for their team's behavior because they didn't stop it - when they full well knew about it.

Sometimes a message needs to be sent. This has happened here. Culture needs to change and I applaud it.

I've been around FAR too many individuals - athletes especially, males to be sure - who act in some of the most horrific ways but because of their talent or whatever other reasons (money has always played a role, too), they would always get off or have people look the other way. I went to a prep school and know the prep school atmosphere in many places in New England. And being on campuses around this country ... you see it in many places.

It is disappointing that somewhere along the line someone didn't redirect these young individuals towards smarter decisions. Maybe this will be the wake up call many of these gentlemen need.

[JEFFFAN]

With all due respect, the number is closer to 35-38% of the student body, not 80%.  And if you don't think there are challenges there, read not only the following but the study that was commissioned by the school.

https://www.gazettenet.com/Amherst-college-assesses-athletics-in-report-7871942

I am not ready to step back from my Petri dish comment!!

[jmcozenlaw]

With all due respect, the number is closer to 35-38% of the student body, not 80%.  And if you don't think there are challenges there, read not only the following but the study that was commissioned by the school.

https://www.gazettenet.com/Amherst-college-assesses-athletics-in-report-7871942

I am not ready to step back from my Petri dish comment!!

I can see (while not agreeing with at all) football players at Alabama and Clemson, wrestlers at Penn State, basketball players at Duke feeling as if they are the "big man on campus"..............but the lacrosse team at Amherst? That's like bragging about being the tallest short person in the circus!!! Those Tad and Thad yupsters need a good azz whoopin.........and Father's credit card taken away. I think of the Bradley Cooper character in Wedding Crashers when I see those types.......and want to smack their smug faces!

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

With all due respect, the number is closer to 35-38% of the student body, not 80%.  And if you don't think there are challenges there, read not only the following but the study that was commissioned by the school.

https://www.gazettenet.com/Amherst-college-assesses-athletics-in-report-7871942

I am not ready to step back from my Petri dish comment!!

My quote of 80% included those who are involved in athletic activities like intramurals and club sports. I wasn't talking about just varsity athletes. I read the report of that number on Amherst Athletics (I believe) as I was researching something for my alma mater.

[TheOsprey]

To the Panther fans, is Sobel playing next season?  I can't find the previous discussion. Thanks.