MBB: NESCAC

Started by cameltime, April 27, 2005, 02:38:16 PM

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Pat Coleman, HOOP, TigerPanther15, D3BBALL, AmherstStudent05, Hamilton Hoops, royfaz and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Pat Coleman

Quote from: nescac1 on June 10, 2020, 10:07:59 AM
Regarding Toomey, he's only 28!  He will have plenty of opportunities down the line.  Extraordinarily rare for anyone his age to become a college head coach, I imagine.  Although I think Goldsmith was the same age when TCNJ hired him ...

Agreed. I could see Toomey going to a CCC school or an NJAC school and doing awesome things on his way up the ladder.
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

ThumannsOwn

Just some food for thought on the Amherst hoops and lax hires:


Marlon Sears indeed has an impressive resume across a ton of stops (including his playing days at 3 different institutions). His Ivy League experience includes 2 individual year pit stops at Columbia and a lengthier stay at Cornell from 2010-15. Columbia was 17-41 overall in those 2 years, including a dismal 6-24 this year. If my season assumptions are correct, Cornell was around 50-95 overall in his 5 years there and a brutal 15-43 in his last 2 years. At Montclair State, his teams were 59-46 (definitely not enormously successful) over the course of 4 years with yearly win totals of 11, 13, 18, and 17. His track record over the last 11 years begs a few questions: Why would anyone leave the top assistant/recruiting coordinator job at Cornell after spending 5 years there for MSU? Does the Cornell win/loss record in his last 2 years there say anything meaningful about his recruiting abilities? Lastly, can we all agree that there had to be better resumes in the job pool?

In terms of the lax hire, Rashad Devoe certainly appears to have a very strong coaching resume, but my sources very close to this process indicate that he was the school's 4th/5th choice.



JEFFFAN

It is wholly legitimate to both take the position that I have and for other readers to request, if you will, more due diligence and/or data on the hirings.    The good news about sports is that the numbers never lie and they are out there for all to see – nothing too subjective about sports at the end of the day.   To that end, here is data on the last three head coaching hires at Amherst:

Men's lacrosse – head coaching record (two positions) – record of 29-29 (.500 winning percentage) / as assistant coach, record of 20-32 (.384 winning percentage)

Women's volleyball – head coaching record (two positions) – record of 31-116) (.210 winning percentage)

Men's basketball – 11 years as an assistant coach – record of 126-182 (.409 winning percentage)

Men's and women's squash – no direct college track record over the past ten years - director of athletics at the University Club of San Francisco since 2012.

Not necessarily good to aggregate but since we are trying to look at objective data as a measure of these hirings, the combined record of these three coaches (excluding squash, which had no record) is 206-359 or a winning percentage of .364.

Does this set of data, either individually by sport or collectively for all the sports, speak to excellence in any way?



nescac1

As Vince Lombardi once said, "Winning isn't everything ..."

Pat Coleman

Is that set of data complete? Is an assistant coach's "winning percentage" relevant to the conversation, even? The assistant doesn't have that type of control over the program or that type of responsibility.
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

amh63

Among a number of alums awaiting Amherst's Prez departure.  Hopefully, soon...but more likely near the end of the present Amherst Capital campaign.  Whatever.
Agreed with JEFFFAN's posts.  The three alum candidate's in final selection process, imho, were to appease the alums.  Wonder if former W&L HBC and more recent assist HC at Amherst....applied.

WUPHF

Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 10, 2020, 11:50:40 AM
Is that set of data complete? Is an assistant coach's "winning percentage" relevant to the conversation, even? The assistant doesn't have that type of control over the program or that type of responsibility.

It would be partially relevant, yes.

Also, relevant is the institutions in which the coach worked.

I mean, is it possible to win at Columbia University?

The one thing I'll say is that the new coach has a profile somewhat similar to former Columbia assistant Jean Bain and boy has that worked out for Brandeis.

jayhawk

I believe Luke from Rochester would have been a strong candidate as he has both experience and success at a small school
My understanding was that he was happy there and I believe his wife had a good job as well which might have made it difficult for him to move
Also following David Hixon because of his success is not such an easy thing to do, whomever it is will be compared to Hixon

I like the Amherst basketball alums who are coaching but perhaps an issue is that some of the more talented ones are still early in their career with a short track record of success. When David took over at Amherst at such an early age it was a much different time

I like the fact that Marion Sears has significant Ivy League assistant coaching assistance which he means knows about recruiting high academic student athletes and mentoring them. It seems that his head coaching time at Montclair State was reasonably successful

I as well as other Amherst alums will be disappointed that the hire was not someone from Hixon's coaching tree (plus David has mentored so many papers and alums!!!) but the reality is that it is now official. I hope that Amherst alumni will be accepting and supportive of the new coach

I like and know Aaron Toomey as a player, coach, and person,  he will be successful and  I would not be surprised if  one day he becomes the Amherst  coach
Point guards make great coaches

SpringSt7

#28058
Regardless of race, which I wholly understand is a disclaimer that probably shouldn't exist anymore, it is tough to wrap my head around the fact that Dave Hixon is being replaced by a coach with a 59-46 record as a head coach.

With that being said, if you think the Amherst athletic department willingly chose a candidate that they did not deem to be the best fit for the job, I don't know what to tell you. I just think, separately, based on what we know about the candidates and the options they had, they could've made a better hire.

ThumannsOwn

I am also having a hard time wrapping my head around the claims that Marlon Sears is a great recruiter given his short stints at a number of schools throughout his career. His Ivy League experience certainly leads one (including jayhawk) to believe he "knows" about recruiting high academic student-athletes, but is there anything in his track record that I may be missing that indicates that his recruiting will translate into wins at Amherst?

Agree wholeheartedly with SpringSt7 that it is a hard pill to swallow that Coach Hixon is being replaced by this resume:

Marlon Sears' Coaching Career
2020: Amherst College (Head Coach)
2019-2020: Columbia University (Associate Head Coach)
2015-2019: Montclair State University (Head Coach)
2010-2015: Cornell University (Assistant Coach)
2009-2010: Columbia University (Assistant Coach)
2008-2009: High Point University (Assistant Coach)
2006-2008: Wagner College (Assistant Coach)
2001-2006: Binghamton University (Assistant Coach)

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: ThumannsOwn on June 10, 2020, 10:34:54 AM
Just some food for thought on the Amherst hoops and lax hires:


Marlon Sears indeed has an impressive resume across a ton of stops (including his playing days at 3 different institutions). His Ivy League experience includes 2 individual year pit stops at Columbia and a lengthier stay at Cornell from 2010-15. Columbia was 17-41 overall in those 2 years, including a dismal 6-24 this year. If my season assumptions are correct, Cornell was around 50-95 overall in his 5 years there and a brutal 15-43 in his last 2 years. At Montclair State, his teams were 59-46 (definitely not enormously successful) over the course of 4 years with yearly win totals of 11, 13, 18, and 17. His track record over the last 11 years begs a few questions: Why would anyone leave the top assistant/recruiting coordinator job at Cornell after spending 5 years there for MSU? Does the Cornell win/loss record in his last 2 years there say anything meaningful about his recruiting abilities? Lastly, can we all agree that there had to be better resumes in the job pool?

In terms of the lax hire, Rashad Devoe certainly appears to have a very strong coaching resume, but my sources very close to this process indicate that he was the school's 4th/5th choice.

Biggest reason to leave Cornell for MSU - wanted to be a head coach of his own program. Probably felt after a few years at Cornell that despite being a top assistant, he needed some head coaching experience. He then leaves MSU for another D1 top assistant job because he likely still had the dream of being a D1 head coach - and having a resume that includes being the head assistant at a couple of good ivy schools plus a head coaching job that showed success should look nice.

Then maybe he changed his perspectives and his goals. He saw an opportunity for a head coaching job at one of the top programs in DIII and felt that was going to be as good if not better than his D1 dream.

There are a lot of reasons coaches leave D1 assistant jobs. Navy women's basketball just hired a coach who was in and out of the ACC as one of the top women's assistants in the conference for multiple teams. Read the Navy release and you will see the wealth of reasons for why he left jobs - taking a high school job if memory serves for family reasons. Knocking individuals who leave top assistant jobs may seem easy, but unless you know all the reasons it is a fool's errand of question.

Side note on the lacrosse hire, let's remember Amherst has put in place a lot of punishments and restrictions ... there is a very good chance some of the candidates they offered the job to turned it down understand the up-hill challenge ahead of them. That or they used the offer to better position themselves where they where. It isn't all that surprising for a coaching search to not get their first, second, third choices. Only occasionally have I seen a group indicate who they want and AD go another direction. I don't think that would be the case here.

Quote from: amh63 on June 10, 2020, 12:01:26 PM
Among a number of alums awaiting Amherst's Prez departure.  Hopefully, soon...but more likely near the end of the present Amherst Capital campaign.  Whatever.
Agreed with JEFFFAN's posts.  The three alum candidate's in final selection process, imho, were to appease the alums.  Wonder if former W&L HBC and more recent assist HC at Amherst....applied.

Adam Hutchinson? Kean's head coach who was Hixon's assistant after leaving W&L a few years back? Yeah... he applied... he was one of the six finalists.

Curious, what about Hutchinson's resume makes him a better candidate than Sears? This isn't a knock at Hutchinson, but I don't think W&L didn't pan out to be as good as expected or hoped under Hutchinson. I know he wanted to stay but there was a lot going out outside of basketball that drew him back to the northeast. But seriously, does his resume stand out?

For those who are hanging on to the Hixon thinking ... you have to remember what I have been saying for awhile now, this was going to lead away from a Hixon/Amherst tied coach for a long time. There were few if any coaches who would apply that was going to keep those ties intact. jayhawk talks about Luke F. and his reasons maybe why he didn't get involved - I'm very sure his thoughts come from what I have said publicly on air or on these boards for awhile. I can't say if Luke applied for the job or not, but my gut is if he had he would have been a finalist and he may have been the only individual with ties to Hixon the school could not have ignored. I know I have spoken about why I didn't think he would apply for this job - though, "experience and success at a smaller school" ... I'm assuming you mean before Rochester, jayhawk? I think leaving Rochester for Amherst isn't exactly a no-brainer. Nothing against Amherst, but I think that is a bit of a lateral move for a lot of categories.

Many of you can continue to try and knock Marlon Sears' resume down a few pegs if you want, but as Ryan has indicated I think this is a pretty solid choice (as I do for lacrosse since I cover that sport; I don't know enough about squash and volleyball). There was one finalist I think had a better resume, per se, but as has been indicated, I think Larry Anderson was out of the running early on by his own volition.
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Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

BTW - knocking Marlon Sears for his record at MSU may indicate you all didn't realize what that program was when he took over.

Yes, he was 59-46, but the three years prior:

2014-15 (8-17, 3-15 NJAC)
2013-14 (11-14, 8-10 NJAC)
2012-13 (8-17, 4-14 NJAC)

Sears did a pretty good job while there:

2018-19 (16-11, 11-7 NJAC)
2017-18 (18-9, 11-7 NJAC)
2016-17 (13-13, 10-8 NJAC)
2015-16 (11-14, 7-11 NJAC)

MSU became a pretty competitive team in a conference where Ramapo, NJCU, and others were on top ... and has gotten only deeper and more competitive while he was there and since. MSU was a good enough job when Sears left that Justin Potts was willing to leave his alma mater (Moravian; where he was having tremendous success) and take over.

I think those who discount Sears' time at MSU are not appreciating that work. Just because it isn't the same win/loss numbers as what you have come to expect at Amherst doesn't mean Sears didn't do pretty good there. Heck, there are many Amherst fans/alums who think Toomey didn't do well at 18-8 - seeming to think Hixon never did that "badly." SMH
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

SpringSt7

For whatever this is worth, and I think it's going to be pretty minimal---Williams played Montclair St. two seasons ago (ironically enough in the Moravian tournament). Williams was 9-0 and #2 in the country--Heskett, Casey, etc., we all remember. The Ephs won by 14 and led by as many as 19 at one point, but the first 25-30 minutes were an absolute rock fight. I remember watching and being very impressed by the intensity, the fight, the fearlessness, and some really good tough team defense. They just didn't have any answers for the individual talent of the big 4, which very few teams in the country did, but otherwise they hung tough and competed on every single level. I thought they were going to be an NCAA tournament team, but I guess they got tripped up that year in NJAC play.

I'm still underwhelmed but I add that only to say that record is not everything. Kind of ironic to talk about how much better the NJAC is getting when you look at who won the conference tournament this year  ;) ...only to mess with you Amherst folks!


ThumannsOwn

Absolutely nothing on Adam Hutchinson's resume made him a better candidate than Sears - .398 career winning percentage (167-252) over 16 years as a head coach at the D3 level. In fact, most knowledgeable Amherst insiders would have him ranked closer to the bottom of the tree that includes Flockerzi, Toomey, Goldsmith, Hopkins, Rejniak, and Gilbride. Agree with d-mac that his resume doesn't stand out at all in this mix.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)


I don't think winning percentage is a huge factor in any d3 coaching hire.  There are SOOOOOOOOOOOO many other aspects of the coach and the job that matter more to schools.  You want someone with an ability to win games, but you want someone who fits in with the school and the department, someone committed to the same ideals and goals for the program, and someone who can recruit and train the kind of student-athletes the school wants to matriculate.

Yes, Amherst wants to win, but Amherst is also the kind of place where winning is almost inevitable if the other elements are in place.
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