MBB: NESCAC

[ThumannsOwn]

In my mind, one of those other elements that has to be in place is a coach that knows how to win. We shall see I guess if the other elements in Sears' package make winning almost inevitable at Amherst. I am not sold on the idea that winning at Amherst is almost inevitable, particularly if the coach doesn't know how to win and/or can't recruit talent to do so. Only time will tell though.

[toad22]

If Amherst had wanted the best coach, they would have taken Mike Maker. Since they didn't, there are other factors in play, in addition to winning.

[JEFFFAN]

For what it is worth, and to be as clear as one can be "from afar", neither Mike Maker or Aaron Tommey ever had a shot.   They were window dressing in the process.

[ThumannsOwn]

Is it just me, or do any other posters here think Kevin App's resume before he was hired at William should be considered more accomplished than that of Marlon Sears before he was just hired at Amherst?

2008-09 Assistant at Williams under Mike Maker - 17-9
2009-10 Assistant at Cornell under Steve Donahue - 29-5 (best season in the history of the school)
2010-13 Assistant at Army under Zach Spiker - 39-52

85-66 record that he was exposed to as well as some high quality coaches. Do we think this winning percentage played any part in his success at Williams so far? If not, what other "elements" should one consider here?

No head coaching experience, no glamorous recruiting titles - yet he is averaging about 19 wins a year at Williams.

[toad22]

In the case of Kevin App's hiring, Williams chose the coach , of the top three, who was most likely to stay for many years. All three coaches considered had strong backgrounds, though no head coaching experience. App was the guy the committee knew best, and they believed that he loved Williams, would be an excellent head coach, and would not likely leave in 5-10 years. The other two candidates are now D1 head coaches.

[ThumannsOwn]

In the case of Kevin App's hiring, Williams chose the coach , of the top three, who was most likely to stay for many years. All three coaches considered had strong backgrounds, though no head coaching experience. App was the guy the committee knew best, and they believed that he loved Williams, would be an excellent head coach, and would not likely leave in 5-10 years. The other two candidates are now D1 head coaches.

Good points and make a ton of sense from a hiring perspective at a place like Williams. Amherst should be no different and hard to imagine that the committee viewed Sears above the other candidates in terms of knowing him best, believing that he loves Amherst, believing he will be an excellent head coach, and unlikely to leave in less than 5-10 years. Clearly, these were not the factors that were used to differentiate him.

[SpringSt7]

You also can't put a value on the fact that he had coached under Maker, was highly thought of by Maker, and, as is evident in the Ephs' style of play, planned on continuing to run the program in his image.

But to be perfectly honest with you, I think his resume would be a lot more underwhelming if he spent that 2008-09 season at a different NESCAC school as an assistant, for example. But the fact that he was familiar with Williams changes everything. If Sears had spent any time at Amherst, we would look at his resume completely differently too. Apples and oranges in my opinion.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I love how somehow the discussion of the merits of Amherst's new coach has become a referendum on the tenure of Williams' current coach.  Only in the NESCAC!

[ThumannsOwn]

I love how somehow the discussion of the merits of Amherst's new coach has become a referendum on the tenure of Williams' current coach.  Only in the NESCAC!

Not sure that I would refer to this as a referendum - more of a good discussion and seeking thoughts on comparing their tenures right before the Williams and Amherst opportunities.

[SpringSt7]

Also, if they really never were interested in giving Toomey a shot, that's pretty weak. I can totally understand and support the reasons and motivations for prioritizing both diversity and hiring outside of the family, but if there's anyone you make an exception for, it's him. I don't think anyone here has ever heard anything remotely negative said about the guy, he's dedicated the greater part of the last decade to Amherst basketball, and Hixon felt comfortable enough to leave the program in his hands. If he gets beaten out, he gets beaten out, but at least give him the chance to do so.

[jayhawk]

I believe Aaron Toomey was in the mix for possible Amherst coach position

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Also, if they really never were interested in giving Toomey a shot, that's pretty weak. I can totally understand and support the reasons and motivations for prioritizing both diversity and hiring outside of the family, but if there's anyone you make an exception for, it's him. I don't think anyone here has ever heard anything remotely negative said about the guy, he's dedicated the greater part of the last decade to Amherst basketball, and Hixon felt comfortable enough to leave the program in his hands. If he gets beaten out, he gets beaten out, but at least give him the chance to do so.

Toomey was in the mix. He was one of the finalists from what I've been told.

However, outside of last season ... how much experience does Toomey have in coaching?

I like Aaron and I want to see him succeed, but do you think Amherst was going to hand over the keys to a 25 year old with barely any experience? This isn't the 1970s when Hixon was hired. And Amherst isn't a small, never-win-anyway school that might be willing to offer it to a 25 year old because they will come cheap.

I have always felt Toomey needed more experience to be in line for this job. He was up for the Hampden-Sydney job last season, but even that wasn't going to be enough to get him the Amherst gig. Consider that Kevin Hopkins (assuming he applied) wasn't a finalist and he has more experience than Toomey as both an assistant and a head coach.

Give Toomey time and he will likely show he is a solid coach, but I think it was a long stretch to see him in charge of this program moving forward. (And you have seen me basically indicate that for the last year.)

[SpringSt7]

For what it is worth, and to be as clear as one can be "from afar", neither Mike Maker or Aaron Tommey ever had a shot.   They were window dressing in the process.

I'm strictly going off of this tidbit, so if that's not true then sue me. And Aaron Toomey hasn't been 25 for three years. App was 29 when he got the Williams job.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

For what it is worth, and to be as clear as one can be "from afar", neither Mike Maker or Aaron Tommey ever had a shot.   They were window dressing in the process.

I'm strictly going off of this tidbit, so if that's not true then sue me. And Aaron Toomey hasn't been 25 for three years. App was 29 when he got the Williams job.

Sorry I had his age wrong, but it doesn't change my perspective on things.

And Spring ... you have been on these boards a long time. I think my comments on Toomey's chances in the past would ring through, here. Yes, others say he had no chance ... I think the way I worded things for the last year here (and on the ODAC boards where his future was first raised) would be understood to be the same.

[SpringSt7]

For what it is worth, and to be as clear as one can be "from afar", neither Mike Maker or Aaron Tommey ever had a shot.   They were window dressing in the process.

I'm strictly going off of this tidbit, so if that's not true then sue me. And Aaron Toomey hasn't been 25 for three years. App was 29 when he got the Williams job.

Sorry I had his age wrong, but it doesn't change my perspective on things.

And Spring ... you have been on these boards a long time. I think my comments on Toomey's chances in the past would ring through, here. Yes, others say he had no chance ... I think the way I worded things for the last year here (and on the ODAC boards where his future was first raised) would be understood to be the same.

Fair enough—my post history will also show that I felt from the beginning that Amherst could've always picked someone from the Hixon tree that was better suited to be HC than Toomey. I also feel a little under qualified to be talking about the process as someone who knows very little about the goings on at Amherst. My larger point was more so that if those things were true, he deserved a better way to go out. He's very young and I think he was given a raw deal this year (no one was ever going to give him any credit for succeeding with the preseason #5 team in the country). We definitely haven't heard the last from him