MBB: NESCAC

Old Guy · January 27, 2007, 05:23:04 PM

Tough loss for Middlebury; nice win on the road for Williams. 74-74 with 3:00 to go. Williams played well down the stretch, Middlebury didn't: missed some easy shots, turned the ball over.

Rose was great throughout, but the difference was Shalvoy, who was terrific. He hit an NBA bomb at 71-71, then hit a baseline floater, knocked down his foul shots, took care of the ball.

Rudin played and went hard, but did not have a good game, especially late.

Middlebury had some luck pounding the ball inside to Walsh, Smith, and Edwards (guarded by Shalvoy) but Williams defended well late (doubled down) and created some big turnovers and missed shots.

Paulson is certainly active.

Big crowd, nice atmosphere, exciting game.

Rats.

nescac hoops · January 27, 2007, 05:34:18 PM

Quote from: WeezyFBaby on January 23, 2007, 04:07:14 PM
pepin gym will be raucous this weekend. i'm not sure if amherst fans realize this, but you guys are not alone in hating williams. everybody does.

phew, williams was able to beat their big "travel partner rival." the proclaimed, "raucous" crowd totaled a whopping 530 people according to the box score. typical amherst-williams games at williams draw 1800+.

Quote from: walzy31 on January 27, 2007, 10:45:50 AM
If they don't take care of Williams today then their street cred severely diminishes.

well, i guess they lost their cred.

i don't know how coaches vote on nescac awards and i know that chris rose was left off of every all-conference team predictions made on this forum earlier this season. he certaintly struggled with his shot with his broken hand and was not worthy of a selection based on his play first semester. however, if all conference selections are made based on how players play during conference play, then i think rose needs to be added. at the least, its good to see him get his shot back.

wow, that's quite the score from conn! i have no explanation for this bates game.

mrmike88 · January 27, 2007, 05:37:14 PM

Conn College 82, Bates 65

Huh? CC, were you there? Look at these team numbers for Conn:

TOTAL FG% 1st Half: 15-19 78.9% 2nd Half: 10-17 58.8% Game: 69.4%
3-Pt. FG% 1st Half: 8-12 66.7% 2nd Half: 3-6 50.0% Game: 61.1%

Red1 · January 27, 2007, 05:44:54 PM

Whoarewe,

I think the mentality has the potential to change from game to game, but in general I do think that Bates has a winners mentality. In general I think that the top 4 or 5 nescac teams have a winners mentality when they're playing non-conference games because how many teams in NE can compete with the top Nescac teams? Very few. Until last year when Bates went 6-3 in Nescac I think that the Bobcats did not have a winners mentality in Nescac play. They had no experience winning and didn't expect it. After last year, however, (and probably stemming from the appearance in the Nescac finals the year before) , they have gained a winners mentality. The problem that this can lead to is over confidence, and I think this played a part in the loss to Trinity.

All year if Bates got up by double digits early in the first half the other team just kind of went away and Bates cruised. The only 2 games that weren't cruises were at Colby (until Cohen went down) and at Bowdoin. In these two games Colby went away in the second half after Bates pulled away and Bowdoin was actually ahead the whole game until the last minute when Bates hit the last basket. I think that when Bates got ahead by 13 (I don't remember exactly, but I think that was it.) they expected Trinity to go away just like every other team did, but Trinity has a winners mentality too, and they didn't go away, and I don't think Bates was ready to deal with that. I also think that Bates was looking ahead a little to Amherst <head hangs in shame>.

On the flip side of this I think that Amherst always has a winners mentality, and when on the same court as 'Herst, most other teams do not have a winners mentality any more because Amherst is different, and better than everyone else who teams expect to beat. I think that Bates, in particular, has a losers mentality when they play Amherst. They don't expect to be able to win, and thus they aren't.

Cheers,
Red1

Red1 · January 27, 2007, 05:46:44 PM

That's rediculous! How the hell did Conn put up numbers like that? I don't think anyone has put up numbers like that in the 15 years I've been watching DIII basketball.

Red1

Red1 · January 27, 2007, 05:47:59 PM

An unimportant rant:

Why can't anyone set picks correctly anymore? Just about everyone takes a step toward the defender to be sure they make the pick, sometimes they lean a little if the defender is going to make it around the screen. I've even seen quite a few examples of a player, after setting a screen, run directly towards the defender they picked as though trying to run past them in that direction when in fact they are clearly trying to prolong the pick. These are all things that refs let go for the sake of speeding up the game, and they are generally minor as the course of the game is concerned. They are, however, an essential part of the game and teams should learn how to do it correctly, and the refs should call fouls on teams that don't if for no other reason than to enforece the rule and make teams learn the proper techniques.

When setting a pick an offensive player needs to plant his/her feet after signaling the teamate for whom the pick is being set. That teamate then needs to lead the defender into the pick, and the DEFENDER MUST GO TO THE OFFENSIVE PLAYER. The other way around is illegal.

Over the last two years I've been able to see every team in Nescac play once (granted at Bates) and here is a list of those teams that set picks correctly:

Amherst (men)
Trinity (men)

That's it. That's the entire list. I've not seen a single women's team set picks correctly. All other men's teams (including Bates) have the tendency for the offensive player to do one of the many illegal (albeit minor) things I mentioned above. Why can't more teams set screens and carry them out correctly, and why don't refs harp on it and force them to learn?

Sorry for the rant, I just got back from the Bates vs. Conn women's game and these two teams set some of the sorriest excuses for screens I've ever seen, and got away with it, and they shouldn't have.

Cheers,
Red1

whoarewebobcats · January 27, 2007, 06:04:40 PM

I know I'm kind of a broken record about this, but: Bates' three-point shooting was terrible today; Halloran 0-7 (didn't see the game, but they probably weren't quality shots...that kid would hit 5/7 if they were open looks); Stockwell shot 2-8 from threes--the key number being 8 (Rob, you're 6'5", go underneath and stay there). Not much rebounding either, but it's hard to rebound when the other team doesn't miss. One stat that's kind of weird--CC took three times as many FTs as Bates (33-11). Odd. I'm not trying to say that Bates lost because of the refs or anything--that doesn't happen in 17 point losses, but it's still odd. I'm glad I didn't see this game. Simply going off the box score, it looks like Reilly just tried to combat their hot shooting with Bates' shooting (Halloran played 23 mins, J. O'K 2 mins), and obviously that didn't work. A streaky team indeed. Bet they have a long, early practice tomorrow.

Red, interesting take on the winner's mentality. NESCAC is a tough conference and most of the good teams, I think I agree, should develop a winner's mentality. I'm a little concerned about them losing that after this year, but Reilly's running the ship, and the coach is responsible for that sort of thing, so it should be fine. Also, as for the picks, I agree completely. Setting picks is crazy right now, and the officiating on it seems pretty inconsistent. Moving screens are perfectly acceptable. It's that way in the pros too (I think D1 is pretty good about it)--have you ever seen Nash and Amare run pick and rolls? They can't be stopped.

Pat, got your message, thanks for letting me know. I just think it's silly that anyone (him included) gets worked up over stuff like this. I didn't see anywhere to reply, so I just posted here.

walzy31 · January 27, 2007, 06:30:54 PM

Quote from: walzy31 on January 26, 2007, 11:31:03 PM
I am so confused by Bates right now it's not even funny.

Red1 · January 27, 2007, 06:44:10 PM

Whoarewe,

I don't really watch the NBA. I don't think of it as basketball so much as a sanctioned forum to show off and hot dog. It was amazing to me that they started allowing zone defense. It takes away from the offense and the showing off that has always seemed to define the NBA. Thus I stick with college basketball.

Cheers,
Red1

Old Guy · January 27, 2007, 07:51:40 PM

"nescac hoops": we (at Middlebury) don't mean to intrude on the sanctity of the Williams-Amherst rivalry (1st intercollegiate baseball game: Wms vs Amherst, 1859).

Here in the hinterlands we don't have a natural NESCAC rival. Williams is our closest NESCAC neighbor - and they're so good in everything. winners of the Director's (nee Sears') Cup every year they've been eligible, great school academically, so naturally we love to play Williams and bring a lot of emotion to those games - and we beat 'em on occasion, in some sports more than others (not in football or hoops - 14 straight losses, counting today).

It's actually a pretty good rivalry over the years in soccer, ice hockey, and lacrosse (and baseball recently) - good teams (women too), great games, not Amherst maybe (or the CBB in Maine) but pretty good nonetheless.

whoarewebobcats · January 27, 2007, 09:58:48 PM

you don't have to necessarily follow the nba to have seen nash and amare, but that's fine. the nba is much better than it was for the last ten years ago, i've been recommending to anyone who will listen to give it another go...

...but there's still nowhere i'd rather be than alumni gym.

hoopjunkie · January 28, 2007, 07:47:37 AM

WHO ARE THIS WEEKS PLAYER OF THE WEEK CANDIDATES ?
ALSO WHO DOES THE VOTING ON THAT ?

nescac1 · January 28, 2007, 08:25:25 AM

Congrats to the Ephs on a badly needed quality offensive showing. Nice to see them hit both 3's and foul shots when it counted. Brutal week ahead with Keene, Tufts and Bates, although all three have recently suffered losses proving they are vulnerable. The only negative from the Midd game was that the Panthers absolutely destroyed Williams on the offensive boards, much like Lasell recently did. The Ephs can't count on that kind of shooting every game, so they'll need Geoghegan, Weisbrot and Rose to really be forces on the glass to have a chance at emerging from the week with a winning record.

I think Rose may be a near lock on POW: leading Williams to wins over two quality teams (in particular at Midd), while averaging 26 points and 6 boards on 13-22 shooting from 3 and near perfection from the line ... add the fact that no Williams player has yet been recognized, and I'd imagine he would be a pretty good bet.

I agree with Nescac Hoops that now that Rose has healed up, he has to be in the picture for all conference again. Amazing the difference a star playing like a star can make. What is interesting is player of the year -- I don't see how it CAN'T be Olson at this point. Both Stockwell and Cohen have really struggled at times; it's not even clear either is the top player on their own team. If Wesleyan was a better team over all, Kelly might be a candidate. But think about it: is there even really a lock for first team all conference other than Olson and maybe Kelly? Stockwell, Ray, Cohen, Farrell, Kelly, Weitzen, Pierce, Rose, Wheeler, McLaughlin, Baskauskas, the Martins ... and probably a few others ... are all right about equal in terms of impact. In light of how he controls the game and how his team has dominated, Olson seems like the logical choice. The coaches like to reward seniors, but no senior has really stood out this year.

Good to see the Williams frosh giving the team a spark. It will be interesting to watch this group develop over the next few years ... Shalvoy and Rose can't carry the team every game, so the young guys will have to mature in a hurry if Williams is going to make some real noise the rest of this season, and return to league / NCAA contention next year (when no one except for Amherst looks to be in really stellar shape).

The Conn / Bates score is a stunner. I guess outside of Amherst, anyone can beat anyone on any given night in NESCAC this year ...

hoopjunkie · January 28, 2007, 11:39:05 AM

nescac 1 - real good post but I`m going to congratulate the Tuft Jumbos on 3 quality wins in a row . They really destroyed the Wesleyan Cardinals yesterday. Alot of angry Wes fans which seems to happen alot there . Great facility though . I think the Jumbos are really hitting their stride . Congrats to Jake Weitzen on his 1,0000 point as a junior , NICE . Also Jon Pierce is very tough to stop both inside & out . Brian Fitzgerald continues to play great defense & pulls tough rebounds in the paint . Sheppard & O`keefe are also playing well . They must start shooting foul shots better . Also Aaron Gallant is playing good minutes with great results .

I agree with you nescac 1 - Olson player of the year no doubt. Kelly is a one man team on a bad team , no one from Colby or Bowdoin have been consistant enough especially Cohen.
Even Stockwell has had a few weak games recently . Ray is a great defender but Olson really controlls the game for Amherst .
I think Williams has to long of a way to go for Rose to be considered for anything , he has played well recently , we shall see after this week if he can maintain his good play .

CCsalive · January 28, 2007, 01:26:03 PM

I was at the CC-Bates game! Note: CC was tied with Tufts Friday night w/ 2:00 to play. Earlier in the week I predicted a strong weekend from CC.

If you watched CC last year, this should not be as much of a shock as their 0-4 record heading into the Bates game. Bates was tired from their OT win Friday night(particularly Stockwell after getting banged around by Wesleyan's Kelly who btw dropped 30pts on CC's Stone). And, Conn fired on all pistons making everything they put up...79% first half shooting and a 20 pt half time lead should put to rest any referee conspiracy theories. Bates played from behind the whole game and was forced to press and trap and go for steals the whole second half, they played "hack a shaq" on Washington with as much as 8 minutes left.

When Bates cut the lead to 8pts they absolutely believed they were going to win. That was enjoyable to see...they are a very good team, but it was not their day (Stockwell,7-22 for 17pts is not good) and Conn shot well enough to beat anyone.

Great to see Bowdoin beat Trinity. I also predicted losses for the top four squads beyond beating one another prompting the parody,parity spelling debate.

Lastly, CC's Princeton-O was thing of beauty. Love or hate the offense, but it is tough to guard for 40 min and CC got backdoors and open threes b/c of great motion...and the ball went in at 65%.