MBB: NESCAC

[hoopjunkie]

Also great call on Pat Martin & Kino great backcourt

[formerbant10]

Who the heck is R Kelly capt?.

Rob Kelly from Wesleyan.  Check the leading scorers....I think he's number 2.

[Dr E. Spengler]

hoopjunkie...correct, wheeler could have been second team if the people choosing the all conference awards enjoyed being wrong.  It seems, however, that they fulfilled their quota by putting both stockwell and ray on the first team.


three words:

DREW COHEN! buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurn!!!!

[nescac1]

I agree that R. (Robert) Kelly got the shaft -- sure his team wasn't any good, but that made his numbers all the more impressive in some ways as he had virtually no help.  Finished near the top of the conference in rebounds, points, blocks and fg percentage.  Meanwhile, Trinity gets THREE guys on the team, none of whom had statistical years remotely as impressive as Kelly's (and looking at P. Martin's stats, they are surprisingly not impressive at all depsite all the hype -- true he brings a lot of grit and leadership to the table, but also, apparently, some pretty questionable shot selection).  Cohen is the other guy with a legitimate beef, getting shut out of both defensive player and all conference honors.  Rose and Stone can complain, but they will both be around next year for all conference honors, and Conn College underachieved so much hard to reward anyone on the team.  Rose is clearly one of the top 10 guys in the league, but due to injury he didn't play like that for half the season, tough break but hard to argue that he is more deserving than anyone who did make the team.  

What is interesting is how much senior talent Bates, Wesleyan, and Colby lose.  Considering that none of those three had stellar seasons this year,  unless they have absolutely stellar recruits coming in, could be a long season for them next year (especially Wesleyan).

[hoopjunkie]

Oh yeah Rob Kelly - great scorer  on a terrible team . Was Stone second team last year ?
I think all in all great picks all deserving . By the way who picks the teams ? AD`s or coaches
or Walzy  31 ?

[nescac1]

Lots of folks are picking Ramapo, who I never heard of this year, for the final four, so I checked them out.  Amherst should probably root for WPI in that match-up because Ramapo might actually (contrary to something I posted earlier) at least make them break a sweat for one reason:

http://ww2.ramapo.edu/athletics/basketballMen/index2.asp?id=2776

That is their leading scorer, all 6'8, 300 lbs. of him ... no one remotely close to those dimensions in NESCAC except that big kid on Wesleyan, and he wasn't a Div-I transfer ...

I imagine Amherst will still be a heavy favorite, but they will need Hopkins and O'Shea to work OT to contain that dude if they meet up ...

[walzy31]

I agree that R. (Robert) Kelly got the shaft. Cohen is the other guy with a legitimate beef, getting shut out of both defensive player and all conference honors.  Rose and Stone can complain, but they will both be around next year for all conference honors.

Using that logic Cohen can't complain because he got his last year.
I don't love the squad...but I admit, they would be heavy favorite over the all crazy guys.

[walzy31]

Oh yeah Rob Kelly - great scorer  on a terrible team . Was Stone second team last year ?
I think all in all great picks all deserving . By the way who picks the teams ? AD`s or coaches
or Walzy  31 ?

My team would have been

Olson
Wheeler
Clarke
Farrell
R. Kelly

Ray
Shalvoy
One of the Martins
Weitzen
Either Rudin, Harris, or Rose

Olson POY has been discussed and makes sense.
LOVE Ray as DPY
Pierce, since he qualifies, is deserving.
and they put the wrong Dave for coach.

[senatorfrost]

NESCAC1. First of all I agree that Amherst seems to have the softer sectional except for maybe Ramapo. Guys like that 300lb player give Amherst lots of trouble.
  Well it looks like (maybe) the coaches agree with me. Olson and Wheeler made all conference and that was it from Amherst. I certainly wouldn't disagree about those two in the top ten. Then we have Cohen, Stone, Kelly, Rose who were not named. That makes fourteeen (My opinion) unless of course you want to say that Baskauskas and Hopkins are better than Cohen, stone, etc. That would make four out of the top twelve.
   I did see the Middlebury game. Middlebury with no players in the top 16 managed to take Amherst right down to the wire, with Rudin suffering an injury at some point. (he sat out the next game) and the game was at Amherst. If Amherst really has four out of the top twelve then Middlebury has at least two.
    However,it did not look to me like they had four of the best twelve players that game nor did it appear to be the case when they played Williams the other day. Trinity has three of the top twelve (according to the coaches) but one of them didn't play in the Amherst game and Trinity won.
    Now in fairness if Goldsmith hadn't been lost for the season, you might have been far closer to correct (in my opinion) You see I like to judge players on how they perform when matched up against a good team who is going all out on defense. I have seen a couple games this year and last when they were matched up against a team that was beaten and had let down and it was 'Party Time' and everyone looked good and some looked great.
  There would be a few good excuses for the Williams loss if the game had been at Williams.
  Ten players deep? Not according the minutes Hixon gives out in the big games. Of course he is only the coach, what does he know?

2004 v 2007. Let's do apples v apples.

2004

pg-Corrigan and sometimes Donovan  v Olson- Edge to Olson though Corrigan was a really fine passer also. Just couldn't shoot. Donovan looked pretty good by the way.

2's and 3's- McLaughlin, Salerno, Baskauskas  v Harper, Bedford, Donovan and  Lee. Big edge to 2004. Harper was a great defensive player and could score. Bedford should have been given a fifth year because I liked watching his constant motion.

4's and 5's Hopkins, Walters, and Wheeler v Jones and Schiel. Edge to 2004. Mr. Inside and Mr. Outside, Jones the ultimate STRONG rebounder and Schiel could shoot from 3 and mix it up underneath, though he did prefer life from afar. Jones had a really high % of 3 point shots made in 2004. He could not be left alone at the top of the key.

I know nothing about Salem, but either Trinity or Brandeis will be very tough. Hopefully the 300 pounder will be a turkey.
     

[mrmike88]

Senator,

Rudin hurt himself at the beginning of the Trinity game the following day.  As far as I know, he was full-strength for Amherst.

If you want to go by how players play in close games, then look at Hopkins (and NO, I am NOT starting the Hopkins/Cohen argument.  I just thought this was interesting...).

He had 16 vs. Williams, 10 vs. Bates, 9 vs. Trinity, 21 in the Midd game, and 15 against Brandeis.  The only bad game he had in a close Amherst game this year was against Tufts.

If you go on how guys play in big games against tough defenses, then I think you should give some consideration to K-Hop.

[senatorfrost]

 He is a force in the middle on defense. Teams avoid him. On offense he is labored. He gets the ball, all action stops as he starts his move(s) He and his man often become the only thing to watch. Sometimes he scores but other times the play goes no where and time has eaten away a lot of the clock and some momentum (in some cases)
  I think he is a very valuable part of the Amherst team. I think that if he improves as much from this year to next as he did from last year to this, then he is a threat to be a first teamer. Right now I rate him as a borderline top liner.
  I like the team. I think they can make a few adjustments and maybe do real well this year. You saw the games last weekend. Do you honestly think that Amherst looked like the best of the three? Williams did what they did twice. The first time I thought it was a fluke.
Do you think Amherst could walk on the floor v trinity and be more than 50% assured of a win? How about Williams? Do you think Amherst could beat Williams in Chandler if they were playing this weekend? My answer is a very big maybe/doubtful. I may not be as loyal a fan as you and some of the others but I was hoping for another final four this year. Still am.

[walzy31]

"The College of Wooster, holders of the unpropitious #2 ranking, are in the top 25 for the 75th consecutive week. This impressive streak is second only to the record 77-week string held by #6 Amherst. #4 Virginia Wesleyan is a vote-getter for the 25th straight time."

- Daily Dose

[nescac1]

Senator, fair enough, you certainly know Amherst far better than I do.  Just a few quick points.  I really feel like you underestimate the difference between Corrigan and Andrew O.  Having a guy at the point who can not and does not shoot or ever really look to score just makes a huge difference for a defense, who can really sag down, plus Olson controls the offense from the point in a way I'd say no recent NESCAC point other than Crotty has.  I think the drop off from Olson, the first junior to win player of the year in a long time (Olson has a good shot to be the first two time player of the year since Nogelo, who is the best NESCAC player I've ever seen), to Corrigan, who never even came close to making an all league team, is enormous in my view.  Also, I probably exaggerated with saying 4 of the top 12 (I'd still say 4 of the top 16-17 though), but even if a team had 4 of the top 10 (say, Williams 2003 with Folan, Demuth, Coffin and Crotty), they could almost never get all four into the all league ranks b/c there simply wouldn't be enough "numbers" to spread around, especially if one or two of those guys was really the go-to guy. 

[mrmike88]

The King's/Widener matchup will have streaming video, thanks to King's TV.  There's a link to it on the new scoreboard on the front page.  The winner plays Amherst on Saturday.

[tballs]

quite the tourney prediction from P. Coleman for trinity, and really it doesnt seem that far fetched.  I think the winner of their first round matchup will have a great shot at reaching the elite 8, and theyve shown they can beat amherst...so why not?