MBB: NESCAC

[gordonmann]

I thought about emailing Simmons about his column but stopped because:

a)  Apparently he receives roughly a zillion emails a day and I can't think of anything pithy and witty enough to cut through the maelstrom of messages.  I have corresponded with another Page 2 writer before about Division III and enjoyed it, though.

b) Like a lot of other writers, Simmons uses Division III sports for a quick, cheap joke about how bad the level of competition is.  I gather that some of his ideas have a lot of thought behind them (e.g. the Ewing Theory, the levels of losing) and others are akin to a Road Rules versus Real World or Rounders references.  Good for a quick laugh but not worth a ton of thought.

His presumptions about Division III appear to be based heavily on the NESCAC since he has friends who attended Amherst and maybe Hamilton.  Those schools are certainly one aspect of Division III, but not the only one and not even a highly representative one for football.

All that said, I won't begrudge him Simmons jokes.  I read him.  I like him.  But I don't take this suggestion seriously, nor I suspect does he.

[diehardfan]

Holy Cross isn't really one of the dregs of DI. Didn't they win the patriot league this year? They are clearly not a powerhouse, but there are certainly worse teams out there.

The Patriot League, haha...

Didn't Fontbonne win the SLIAC this year? 

And now I need to go wash my hands from the proverbial dirt that just got on them from typing something having to do DI. 

[labart96]

I thought about emailing Simmons about his column but stopped because:

a)  Apparently he receives roughly a zillion emails a day and I can't think of anything pithy and witty enough to cut through the maelstrom of messages.  I have corresponded with another Page 2 writer before about Division III and enjoyed it, though.

b) Like a lot of other writers, Simmons uses Division III sports for a quick, cheap joke about how bad the level of competition is.  I gather that some of his ideas have a lot of thought behind them (e.g. the Ewing Theory, the levels of losing) and others are akin to a Road Rules versus Real World or Rounders references.  Good for a quick laugh but not worth a ton of thought.

His presumptions about Division III appear to be based heavily on the NESCAC since he has friends who attended Amherst and maybe Hamilton.  Those schools are certainly one aspect of Division III, but not the only one and not even a highly representative one for football.

All that said, I won't begrudge him Simmons jokes.  I read him.  I like him.  But I don't take this suggestion seriously, nor I suspect does he.

Gordon -

TGP thought the same (and has actually had an email or two make it thru the zillions and into the SG mailbag in the past, but not about D3 related stuff), but decided against it for the reasons you listed above.

So what if Simmons backhands D3 for a cheap laugh? 

If you really want a chuckle, the next time Simmons slams D3 remember that:

a) Simmons is still a celtics and a nba fan (ouch),
b) he went to a private all boys high school in greenwich, ct (brunswick), so its not a surprise he'd have a lot of friends who went to nescac and similar schools
c) he barely even follows D1 ncaa sports (he's an unabashed pro sports fan), so he's clearly ignorant of pretty much all ncaa athletics until right before draft day
d) one of his best buddies is john stamos' pr guy

[JeffRookie2]

Come on now, Holy Cross has given some very big name schools good runs in the tournament. They were actually came pretty close to pulling off an upset a couple of years ago as a 16 seed. Holy Cross only lost by 10 in the first round this year to the Salukis. By comparison, Virginia Tech from the mighty ACC lost by 15.

[gordonmann]

TGP (great nickname, by the way):

Yeah, I don't begrudge Simmons his humor.  He's funny and I enjoy his writing.  And he's not the first person to misunderstand Division III.

[formerbant10]

TGP,

Great point on Brunswick (Never did like the Bruins).  One of his other boys is a Lord Jeff alum.


But you have to realize how a common fan looks at DIII....most people believe they could playing/coaching in the games they see on TV better than those that actually are.  Whether it be HS, ACC, NBA....whatever.  So it's no surprise that their lack of respect would grow for teams that do not make it onto The Ocho.

[walzy31]

In following the precedent set by Friar T, I think its time to make a few analogies concerning the posters of this board:

Hoops Fan- Danny Tanner. Really tries to be the moral guide of all the boards. All we need is that sappy music to start playing at the last sentence of every one of his posts.

Pat Coleman- Don Johnson. Aside from the uncanny physical similarities, D3Hoops is your Nash Bridges.

diehardfan- Tinky Winky. Constantly smiling, laughing at yourself, god love you!!! .

Historian- Ben Stein.

JeffRookie- Britney Speas circa 2006-2007 + Anna Nicole Smith circa 2004 + Skip Bayless.

Not gonna lie. My life revolves around this forum and when I read your post and got to the bottom without seeing my name, I felt like I did when they posted the final roster in basketball. For every team I ever tried out for. Damn.

[cruiser]

haha after having gone to a rival hg of brunswick, i hate it as much as anyone. too bad about how simmons describes d3 though

[nescac1]

Article on Amherst basketball / soccer recruit:

http://www.nashobapublishing.com/sports/ci_5503860

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Simmons has a pretty good understanding of New England d3, but as I discovered in venturing off this region's boards, New England isn't exactly the poster child for d3 basketball.

I think more and more people are figuring out what d3 is all about, although it doesn't seem like anyone's actually coming to the games to find out for themselves.


Holy Cross isn't a great team.  They had that one good game against Kansas (aka Choke U) a couple years back.  Outside that year and the Bucknell win (also over Kansas) with a team that was really too good to be playing for Bucknell, the Patriot league is awful.  It's a bunch of good schools that want to give scholarships so they can consider themselves major players.

[formerbant10]

Cruiser, what school did you go to?

[David Blaine]

Come on now, Holy Cross has given some very big name schools good runs in the tournament. They were actually came pretty close to pulling off an upset a couple of years ago as a 16 seed. Holy Cross only lost by 10 in the first round this year to the Salukis. By comparison, Virginia Tech from the mighty ACC lost by 15.

- What you said is exactly the type of attitude Simmons is talking about. He knows that Holy Cross will never have what it takes to be a national champion in D1, and he thinks its pathetic to get excited about a double-digit loss to a 4 seed. Since HC will never attract top level recruits, he thinks they should just join a conference that puts academics first (NESCAC).

Walzy- My deepest apologies. Dustin Hoffman in Rain Man + Adam Sandler in The Waterboy... just without the mental incapacities.

[daoustian]

He seems to assume that Holy Cross would fare well in NESCAC -- but of course he fails to mention that, depsite a roster of all scholarship players, the Cross lost, at home, to Williams, the last time they faced a NESCAC squad.  I bet this year's Amherst squad would have given them a run for their money as well. 

This brings up a better discussion question -- my kneejerk reaction when reading this was "a run for their money?  Amherst would probably have trashed HC this year" -- even bearing in mind that this year's Holy Cross team went into the tournament (whereas the team that Williams beat in 04 did not fare as well ultimately). 

But it begs the question of who would win: Williams 04 vs. Amherst 07?  Have we done this one before?  Does anyone have a good virtual simulator out there?  It's not as though these are the two best D3 (or even NESCAC) squads of all time, but for rivalry purposes, it'd be fun.  I think most Amherst fans would argue that the '07 squad was better than the '04 team, and the 04 team didn't lose by all that much to Williams in the semis (though there was a 12-pt loss in the NESCAC title game).  Discuss.

[fpc85]

He seems to assume that Holy Cross would fare well in NESCAC -- but of course he fails to mention that, depsite a roster of all scholarship players, the Cross lost, at home, to Williams, the last time they faced a NESCAC squad.  I bet this year's Amherst squad would have given them a run for their money as well. 

This brings up a better discussion question -- my kneejerk reaction when reading this was "a run for their money?  Amherst would probably have trashed HC this year" -- even bearing in mind that this year's Holy Cross team went into the tournament (whereas the team that Williams beat in 04 did not fare as well ultimately). 

But it begs the question of who would win: Williams 04 vs. Amherst 07?  Have we done this one before?  Does anyone have a good virtual simulator out there?  It's not as though these are the two best D3 (or even NESCAC) squads of all time, but for rivalry purposes, it'd be fun.  I think most Amherst fans would argue that the '07 squad was better than the '04 team, and the 04 team didn't lose by all that much to Williams in the semis (though there was a 12-pt loss in the NESCAC title game).  Discuss.

It would be a great match up. It would come down to post play and perimeter defense. Jeffs would win b/c of depth, length and the ability to create havoc on the perimeter with there ability to limit outside shooting.

[Gregory Sager]

But it begs the question of who would win: Williams 04 vs. Amherst 07?  Have we done this one before?  Does anyone have a good virtual simulator out there?

Check with Wooster Booster over in the NCAC room. He has a simulator program called AtR that he trots out every now and then, and he was running simulations of all of Wooster's tournament games this year. Given that Wooster played both Williams '04 and Amherst '07 in the Final Four, you may be able to pique WooBoo's interest enough to have him run the simulated game for you.