MBB: NESCAC

[frank uible]

walzy: Do I get to take the rest of the field on a pick-'em basis?

[Pat Coleman]

I know this is a basketball forum, not football.  But I wanted to share the news that ESPN College Gameday will be at the Amherst-Williams football game this Saturday.

Watch my karma drop for posting off subject...

Was posted on D3football.com Monday afternoon, yes. It's a great choice for them to get a good impression of Division III football and pass that along to the nation at large. Please put on a good show, Amherst and Williams fans.

[nescac1]

Walzy, you certainly have reason to be confident, but unlike in the past few years, Amherst could actually face some legit obstacles in getting through a New England regional ... Brandeis, Williams, Trinity (if P. Martin is back, no one seems to know either way for certain), and RIC are all teams that either beat Amherst last year or gave them some trouble, and all have closed the talent gap considerably (Brandeis and Williams each lose basically nothing to graduation, RIC loses some good players but adds a ton of talented transfers and frosh, and Trinity will have a very experienced team, especially in the front-court).   Sure, Amherst is the favorite in the northeast, but I don't think New England has ever had (or at least not for many years) as much depth of talent for the top 6-7 squads or so.  And it's experienced talent ... Brandeis, Amherst, Trinity, Tufts, Keene, Williams, WPI, Coast Guard each have dynamite senior classes.  Any of those teams could at least make Amherst sweat.  In past years, the midwest teams had good cause to complain about stacked regionals while Amherst, Williams, etc. could just breeze through, but for the first time ever, New England programs may face several rounds of stiff tourney competition. 

[walzy31]

Walzy, you certainly have reason to be confident, but unlike in the past few years, Amherst could actually face some legit obstacles in getting through a New England regional ... Brandeis, Williams, Trinity (if P. Martin is back, no one seems to know either way for certain), and RIC are all teams that either beat Amherst last year or gave them some trouble, and all have closed the talent gap considerably (Brandeis and Williams each lose basically nothing to graduation, RIC loses some good players but adds a ton of talented transfers and frosh, and Trinity will have a very experienced team, especially in the front-court).   Sure, Amherst is the favorite in the northeast, but I don't think New England has ever had (or at least not for many years) as much depth of talent for the top 6-7 squads or so.  And it's experienced talent ... Brandeis, Amherst, Trinity, Tufts, Keene, Williams, WPI, Coast Guard each have dynamite senior classes.  Any of those teams could at least make Amherst sweat.  In past years, the midwest teams had good cause to complain about stacked regionals while Amherst, Williams, etc. could just breeze through, but for the first time ever, New England programs may face several rounds of stiff tourney competition. 

nescac1,

I am CERTAIN Pat Martin is not playing for Trin this year. If you would like to bet: Will Pat Martin play for Trinity 07-08 basketball... the line is +10000 (100:1) for "yes" and closed for "No".

I agree with your synopsis that Trin, 'deis, Williams and RIC will be the toughest games for Amherst this season and that they will pose the biggest threats to Amherst's 3rd straight trip to Salem. Tufts plays us to OT every game too.

However, the years Amherst & Williams "breezed" through to Salem was because they were the best teams in the region, not because the region was down. It may have even been the weakest region out of the four, but there were still a solid number of quality teams that Williams and Amherst had to go through. This wouldn't be the "first time ever."

The reason the NorthEast will often have weak teams make the tourney is due to some of the lower quality conferences that get one (or in some cases two teams... if a 20 something win team loses in conference finals) in every year. I think it is these teams that draw the critcism from around the country (and i think it is deserved).

[JeffRookie2]

Got to agree with Walzy on that point. What about 2004 when they moved Amherst out of region and they still "breezed" to the Final Four? Then it was clear that the northeast had 2 of the best 4 teams in the country. I definitely don't think the northeast is quite as week as people make it out to be, if only because of the NESCAC.

Some word from the AC... I hear Glen Wong is giving S. Wheeler a run at his spot in the rotation. Continue to hear fantastic things about Conor Meehan. The Greek kid, who showed up to school 5-6 inches shorter than reported, has decided not to try out for the team. I hear that Bennett and Butler both look solid but not spectacular. Most importantly I have heard that Adolphe is back in form, but that Goldsmith is still not where he was before the leg injury. Here's to hoping he gets there.

I'll see you all in Williamstown on Saturday.

[nescac1]

I won't bet against you Walzy, just seems odd that he is still up on Trinity's roster and no other graduating senior from last year's team is. 

I didn't mean to minimize AMherst and Williams' accomplishments in reaching final fours.  As a Williams fan, I obviously believe those teams deserved to  make it, were among the most talented teams nationally, and they generally proved it once they made it there.  But the reality is, no northeast region team (besides each other and Amherst's achilles heel Tufts) has ever come close to giving top-flight Williams or Amherst teams a game in the tourney as far as I can remember.  It is only when they hit teams from other regions, like Rochester, Rowan when they were a power, etc. that the powerhouse Eph / Jeff squads have encountered problems.  If we are going to be honest, the midwest brackets are usually much tougher.  So in the past, it was pretty easy to predict that "dominant" Amherst or Williams squads would likely make the final four because no one from the Northeast was in their class ... they wouldn't have to face other dominant squads until the final four or, at worst, the elite eight.  But year in and year out, powerhouse teams from CCIW, OAC, WIAC, etc. have to face off against one another very early in the tourney, leading to far more unpredicatable results in early rounds of tourney play.  For instance, is there any doubt that Stevens Point would have made the final four last year had they faced the same competition along the way as Amherst?  So as good as Wash U. is, it is far from likely they will even make the final four, considering they will probaby have to beat a WIAC and CCIW team along the way.  Normally, you couldn't say the same about Amherst, but this year, they will also face teams with nearly equal talent levels come tourney time, because there are more than just 1-2 nationally competitive teams, it appears, in the new england region.  And not only new england, but Brockport, who often plays nescac schools in the tourney, looks to have its most talented team ever.

On another note, here is the Tufts roster for this year.  Who is the 6'6 senior, was he at Tufts last year, I don't remember him?

http://ase.tufts.edu/athletics/MenBasketball/roster.htm

[nescac hoops]

i think i'm also with nescac1 on this one. the year that amherst and williams "flew" to salem in '04 they faced each other in the national semifinal game where williams won by 4 or 5 points in a tight game. i'm not taking anything away from wisconsin stevens point team - they were REALLY good and proved it they year after, too - but i can't help but think that if the pointers hadn't rolled over john caroll (hands down worst team in the final four that year despite beating amherst in the friendship game but had a great band) the night before and williams hadn't been as physically (and perhaps emotionally) drained from the amherst game the day before, perhaps williams would have won in '04. amherst would have been a grueling game as is  (as was wooster in the semifinal game the year before) but especially brutal in salem. the pointers looked a lot more fresh coming into the title game and it showed down the stretch. i can't help but think that if the ephs had a "laugher"/25 pt. victory the day before and a little more rest, it could have made a one point difference.

without a doubt, the NE is better this year. moving amherst to a different section that year was an exception, but you can ship out and separate all the good NE teams this year and earlier rounds of the NCAA tourny are going to be a lot closer, especially the second weekend. playing basketball in march is exhausting as is and only gets more tiring as the teams get tougher. say what you want about olson or whoever playing 35+ minutes in every ncaa game last year but 35+ minutes in a competitive game is a lot more exhausting than 35+ minutes against elms college. that's not to say that amherst won't destroy some teams in the ncaa tourny next year, but if the NE is better this year which most posters here think, tough games have a way of catching up with teams and making it more difficult down the road.

[eclinchy]

Who is the 6'6 senior, was he at Tufts last year, I don't remember him?

Yeah, he's new to the team... walked on this year.

[nescac1]

thanks eclinchy.  I was worried Tufts had pulled another Jon Pierce out of its hat ...

curious to see Bates' roster after hearing on this board about a lot of impact transfer / frosh big guys ...

[hoopjunkie]

Nescac 1 , I was wondering where you thought Tufts would wind up this year?Will they compete with the top teams ie  Amherst & Williams or will they be battling with the next group Middlebury & Trinity ? I think now that it is semi confirmed P. Martin will not be playing this year it hurts Trinity tremendously . No Kino no P.Martin , I have never really been impressed with Russ Martin even though he has good numbers .

[formerbant10]

As I've said previously, it doesn't matter how many Martins are playing this year...Trinity will be ok.  They have a whole lot of experience and as always a ton of talent.

As for Russ Martin, he's not so bad.  Only an Honorable Mention for preseason AA....must not be that good.

[hoopjunkie]

Former Bant I can`t control what people said about Russ Martin.  I was just saying I was not that impressed . There are certain players that get alot of hype & ones that do not .

[formerbant10]

Here are my picks for 1st team all nescac -- pretty easy choices I think

Olson - Amherst
Shalvoy - Williams
Weitzen - Tufts
Stone - Conn College
R. Martin - Trinity

Obviously entitled to your own opinion, which I respect, but I'm not sure what you're trying to say about the NESCAC if a player you picked to be 1st teamer doesn't impress you.  I'd hate to hear what you have to say about someone you thought would be on the 2nd team.

[nescac1]

nice "gotcha" from formerbant. 

Speaking of all americans, pretty impressive for nescac having three pre-season all americans.  Rose, Shalvoy, and Weitzen all could make a case as well, and all might be in the running by seasons' end.   If those three plus Martin, Hopkins, and Andrew O. are all healthy and as productive as expected, someone pretty darn good will be left off the all-league team.  Not to mention Stone, Pierce, R. Taylor, Baskauskas, any of whom could have a monster year. 

As for Tufts, as I've said before they always seem to defy predictions.  I looked at their schedule and for the second year in a row, the coach has done them no favors ... a loooong stretch of eight straight road games in January, ending in the brutal at amherst / trinity weekend, plus games against brandeis and at keene state early in the season.  They have the offense to play with anyone, but that stretch will really test their mental toughness.  I'd be surprised if Tufts does not play better than last year and have a better record, with a very talented starting five and a little extra fuel for the off-season fire, but with that schedule and the questions on defense and in the interior, I'd imagine it will be tough to end up with anything less than 5-6 losses.   I'd say heading into the season they look to be a notch behind Amherst and a half a notch behind Williams, along with Trinity and maybe Midd. 

[hoopjunkie]

Good points Nescac1 . Maybe I feel Martin has been overrated in some of the polls when I think all 3 players you mention Rose , Shalvoy & Weitzen have shown me more than Martin .

Who will be running the point for the Bantams ? shooting guard ? I loved Kino & P. Martin last year as well as Westbrooks & Taylor.