MBB: NESCAC

nescac hoops · January 17, 2008, 05:08:47 PM

Sorry, walzy. It just seemed FCP needed a reminder of where the majority of obnoxious quotes came from last year.

Quote from: fpc85 on January 17, 2008, 12:47:31 PM
well given the rants about the ephs since last february i thought i would agree with them. it was interesting to see the eph fans back off from the obnoxious comments of last winter.

The Historian · January 17, 2008, 06:00:04 PM

Quote from: Bluesky on January 17, 2008, 03:01:34 PM
Nescac Hoops-I enjoyed the silence from Friar T and the Historian after the great run Williams had last season. Thanks for the reminder of my warm welcome to the board.

Hahaha. Thanks for the walk down memory lane, guys. How long did it take you to look all those up?

But I do recall making at least one victorious post after returning from Salem. Otherwise, you're right. I sort of let the results of both Williams' and Amherst's great runs speak for themselves.

nescac1 · January 17, 2008, 06:28:07 PM

To change the subject, nice article on Williams recruit Emerson:

http://www.wickedlocal.com/arlington/sports/x1151547999

Emerson was the only junior on the Globe super team, which is impressive (Anthony Coppola and Brian Ellis, other members of that team, are arguable the two biggest-impact frosh in DIII New England this season), although the New England Recruiting website does not rank Emerson very highly (199 in the region, well below some other D-III recruits). I believe Mike Nogelo was the last super team member to matriculate at Williams -- not saying there is any way this kid will be another Nogelo (that was a once in a generation recruit for the Ephs and for NESCAC as a whole), but I imagine he will add to the Ephs' suddenly deep stable of young, talented big guys (Geoghegan, Whittington, Dodson, Timmins-Schiffman etc. ... to get PT over that group as a frosh, he'll have to be pretty darn good, in fact). If the Ephs can bring in a few guards (especially a young point guard) they could be pretty stacked for the next few years, as they will now enjoy the size / depth advantage that has helped Amherst for the last few years...

Bowdoin (in particular, already has three strong recruits), Williams, Amherst all off to good starts in recruiting, it sounds like ...

fpc85 · January 17, 2008, 06:31:55 PM

uhh hoops nescac its fpc and thanks for reminding me i almost didn't remember that or when eph fans were just as obnoxious during their final four run in 03-04. i could go searching for those but i don't remember where i might be able to find them.

Quote from: nescac hoops on January 17, 2008, 05:08:47 PM

Sorry, walzy. It just seemed FCP needed a reminder of where the majority of obnoxious quotes came from last year.
Quote from: fpc85 on January 17, 2008, 12:47:31 PM
well given the rants about the ephs since last february i thought i would agree with them. it was interesting to see the eph fans back off from the obnoxious comments of last winter.

fpc85 · January 17, 2008, 06:34:30 PM

Quote from: nescac1 on January 17, 2008, 06:28:07 PM
To change the subject, nice article on Williams recruit Emerson:

http://www.wickedlocal.com/arlington/sports/x1151547999

Emerson was the only junior on the Globe super team, which is impressive (Anthony Coppola and Brian Ellis, other members of that team, are arguable the two biggest-impact frosh in DIII New England this season), although the New England Recruiting website does not rank Emerson very highly (199 in the region, well below some other D-III recruits). I believe Mike Nogelo was the last super team member to matriculate at Williams -- not saying there is any way this kid will be another Nogelo (that was a once in a generation recruit for the Ephs and for NESCAC as a whole), but I imagine he will add to the Ephs' suddenly deep stable of young, talented big guys (Geoghegan, Whittington, Dodson, Timmins-Schiffman etc. ... to get PT over that group as a frosh, he'll have to be pretty darn good, in fact). If the Ephs can bring in a few guards (especially a young point guard) they could be pretty stacked for the next few years, as they will now enjoy the size / depth advantage that has helped Amherst for the last few years...

Bowdoin (in particular, already has three strong recruits), Williams, Amherst all off to good starts in recruiting, it sounds like ...

i hear a lot about nogelo. What type of player was he? Is he Top 10 all time in the nescac

nescac1 · January 17, 2008, 06:42:56 PM

Without a doubt. Three time all American, national player of the year. I think he hurt his knee or something as a senior in high school which may have been why he landed at Williams. Definitely the best Williams player since 1993 at least, and he'd have a very strong argument for best NESCAC player, period, in that time. Scored 2000 career points without ever forcing a shot. He was 6'5 forward, very athletic, good post moves and rebounder, but primarily a shooter and a passer -- he could shoot the lights out from 2, 3, or the foul line, and he had unbelievable court sense / vision, he just knew how to play. If Olson is the Steve Nash of NESCAC, Nogelo was the Larry Bird equivalent. He carried two Williams teams with otherwise solid-but-not-spectacular talent to the Final Four.

fpc85 · January 17, 2008, 06:47:03 PM

Quote from: nescac1 on January 17, 2008, 06:42:56 PM
Without a doubt. I think he hurt his knee or something as a senior in high school which may have been why he landed at Williams. Definitely the best Williams player since 1993 at least, and he'd have a very strong argument for best NESCAC player, period, in that time. Scored 2000 career points without ever forcing a shot. He was 6'5 forward, very athletic, good post moves and rebounder, but primarily a shooter and a passer -- he could shoot the lights out from 2, 3, or the foul line, and he had unbelievable court sense / vision, he just knew how to play. If Olson is the Steve Nash of NESCAC, Nogelo was the Larry Bird equivalent. He carried two Williams teams with otherwise solid-but-not-spectacular talent to the Final Four.

i hated the celts but i loved bird (i love them now even with crotty part of the organization) ...nogelo would have been my kind of player.
before anyone gets upset i was kidding about crotty.

NY Hoopster · January 17, 2008, 09:35:37 PM

Nescac 1

Regarding your post regarding your pick for the top 10 all-conference players, how can you possibly exclude Adam Choice? You put him in "the players to watch category"? Did you watch him start as a Freshman and help bring Colby to the final 4 of NESCAC last year? He is presently the number 2 scorer in the league at 18.4, #7 in rebounding, and #4 in blocked shots. Note that he scored 20 and 15 pts against the two NESCAC teams that Colby has faced so far. You can't go a day on this board without reading about what a force Pierce has been to date, but no love for Choice? There are other Colby players that might fall into the "watch" list, but how can we expect anything close to an objective analysis when the #2 scorer doesn't make your top ten? Is Colby so far North that its off your screen as far as evaluating individual players for conference honors?

nescac1 · January 17, 2008, 09:49:24 PM

I've said it before, this is an incredibly deep year for individual talent in NESCAC. Colby has a lot of guys with inflated numbers, as they put up a huge amount of points but also give up a huge amount of points, and as a team they have not had the same success as schools such as Williams and Amherst, which hurts further. Chioce is only a sophomore, and has plenty of honors in front of him, but as we have discussed ad nauseum on this thread, numbers alone don't account for it ... there is also team success, and defense, and other guys on the team who may steal minutes and shots, and all sorts of other things. I haven't seen Choice play so we'll see what the coaches do, but I will bet that by season's end he won't make all conference. You really think Paulsen would rather have him than Shalvoy or Geoghegan? Hixon take him over his top three or four guys? Conn College want him in favor of Stone? Trinity take him over Taylor or Martin? I seriously doubt it. If he outplays those guys head-to-head and leads Colby to a few upset wins, then he deserves it ... and next year, no doubt, he will. But right now, I'd say he is, just barely, outside of the top ten ...

formerbant10 · January 17, 2008, 10:01:13 PM

Taylor has been looking pretty good this season. Better than most expected at the beginning of the season.

I'd have to agree with NY Hoopster, it's pretty tough to keep the top scorer out of one of the teams. But don't worry, if he is worthy it'll show in the conference games.

senatorfrost · January 17, 2008, 11:06:04 PM

First of all let me agree with an Eph. Nogelo was best I have seen in NESCAC since 1995. I don't think anyone else I have seen is close. He was (is?) to the courts of NESCAC what I am to this NESCAC posting up site.
As far as my ratings go=1. I saw Williams beat Trinity and Amherst back to back in the playoffs. Perhaps if it had only been one win I wouldn't have been so strong on the Ephs. This year's team does not look as sharp so far. (Except maybe for Schultz)
2. No matter what the Tufts/Williams crowd says the losses from last year's Amherst team are huge. I mean I remember the 6 frontcourt stars Amherst that I think a Tufts fan said they had. Now of course that's not over rating at all.
3. THIS year going into the game Ephs had arguably beaten better teams than Amherst and convincingly I might add. (Keene and Ursinus) Amherst lost to Brandeis and barely got by MIT, Lasell,and Babson. (The Elms game was real!!! close but that was after)
4. Ephs showed last year height is not all that important. However, just because they came to Lefrak this year and threw in a stinker, well of course it's the Senator's fault for rating them too highly. I mean what else? I would guess the Eph staff got hoarse extolling the wonders of the Amherst lineup to the faithful.
5. I picked Amherst for 2d this year which I think was very reasonable in view of who was coming back etc. I mean it's not like I had them below Trinity or Middlebury and the Jumbos.
6.I expect Ephs will make adjustments and give a much better account of themselves at home.

NY Hoopster · January 17, 2008, 11:20:03 PM

Nescac 1

I guess I have to excuse your opinion regarding Choice since you haven't seen him play, and since you must therefore be relying on those suspect stats (that apparently are only inflated for Colby in the pre-season). Your reasoning with respect to why a top 10 player should have difficulty being named from a supposedly weaker team is extremely weak with respect to Choice. You seem to surmise that his teammates must be feeding him the ball to get him high numbers, which could happen on a one-man- show team. This analysis ignores the fact that Colby has 5 players that average double figures. You should also note that he plays 32 minutes a game, which is right there with Pierce's 31. If he were the sole engine of the offense (which he is not), wouldn't that mean that all the opponents defenses would be keying on him and make his scoring more remarkable?. The other two front court players on Colby play 17 and 20 minutes on average respectively. What I find interesting is how you discount scoring numbers, but then give no mention of the fact that he has great rebounding and block numbers (and at a slightly built 6' 5'', not 6' 10''). That is part of the overall talent and contribution analysis, is it not, or does that only count if you play for Amherst, Williams, and Trinity? And I note the reference to contributing to "upsets" and to winning in your analysis; I guess Adam being a starter on a final 4 team last year doesn't count? What I strongly object to is the attempt to set aside "slots" for the "royal" teams in the league, before you, or most people south of Maine have even seen a player like Choice. It should be about the individual's talent and his contribution to his team-that doesn't mean that he should be excluded because his efforts don't (or can't) bring his team to a the top few spots in the league.

I'm not going to get into the naming of names of which coach would prefer one player over another. I do think that Choice would start on any team in this league, even if they him to move him to the 2 or 3 to get him into the lineup.

JeffRookie2 · January 18, 2008, 10:28:12 AM

Quote from: nescac hoops on January 17, 2008, 01:19:57 PM
FCP, just a "sample" of what obnoxious posts from last year looked like....

Quote from: JeffRookie2 on January 17, 2007, 04:32:43 PM
man, nescac hoops, you're a kill joy. Let us have some fun with a blow out. I'm sorry the Ephs could only beat the woe-begone Cal Tech team by 20, but let us have some fun with our 30 point blow outs. Its also worth mentioning that Elms has been to the NCAAs each of the last two seasons. Can anyone in your league say that?

[/quote]

I still dont see how this one is obnoxious, especially considering that elms has proven this year that it had some dangerous players on the roster when amherst crushed them last season. I certainly don't see how it is more obnoxious than bragging about your pick-up basketball league.

nescac1 · January 18, 2008, 10:37:38 AM

Good to see the passion of the Colby fans. I certainly agree that Choice would start on any team in the league, and obviously it is hard to compare him to other players before league play begins. He is clearly a candidate for all league honors, but as I've said before, this is a year with so many good candidates, lots of deserving guys will be left off, whether it's Choice or anyone else I listed in my top ten, all of whom, I predict, will have equally strong arguments even if their numbers aren't as gaudy. Coaches, when in doubt, tend to favor seniors given that underclassmen will get their shot, which will probably hurt guys like Geoghegan, Choice, Harris, Baskauskas, unless they play absolutely out of their minds and elevate their teams in league play. Because that is the ultimate goal, right? If Colby finishes above .500 in league play and Choice puts up similar numbers against the better NESCAC squads, I am sure he will make all-league. Anything short of that, it will probably be wait until next year when he and his team should be front runners in the conference.

royhobbs9 · January 18, 2008, 11:30:04 AM

Gentlemen... Long time listener, first time caller... By way of introduction I am a former NESCAC and overseas player... Just need to point out that no all-time NESCAC team can be mentioned without the name Jamal Wilson. If Nogelo was Bird, Wilson was Magic.

Some great players back in the day... Problem is, there's little if any documentation, and even that can be unreliable. In pre-internet days, pre-d3hoops.com days, pre-'people actually care about this level of ball' days, even coaches themselves did not routinely submit players for awards, national teams, and/or recognition. But a lot of dudes were legit...

Regardless, appreciate the fervor with which all of you support D3 athletics (which is basically where D1 was 10-15 yrs ago... making today's D1 more like the 'minor leagues' or CBA back in the day), but no conversation on best NESCAC players can be had without mentioning Jamal...