MBB: NESCAC

[newkidontheblock]

Wow JeffRookie, very impressed by the elaborate research done. I think that is a very interesting and telling stat to use. It really does show the effectiveness and productivity of the players. I think the fact that all 5 Amherst starters are in the top 15 is also impressive. Props to B. Jones for topping the list. I think you did a good job of proving your point as well. You just can't argue with the numbers especially because Rose really does not contribute to his team in any other effective way.

On other note...I really am still stunned by the Williams collapse. I know others have discussed it at length, but wow. I knew that their undefeated record would not last, and that they would be facing tougher competition, but I am still just stunned. 2-5 in the NESCAC, never would have predicted that one.

[JeffRookie2]

Thanks, new kid, i appreciate the recognition.

Pat, did any NESCAC players make the all-decade team?

[frank uible]

speedy: What would moving to a new d-4 gain any of the members of NESCAC?

[CCsalive]

I just can't keep up with you guys on a Sunday...my life gets in the way!

Thoughts on Amherst from a Hamilton grad/CC fan/if I had to choose b/w Jeff or Eph, I'd have been an Eph:

Amherst is pretty damn amazing. CC played them tough in the first half (all 12 of Stone's pts were in the first half) and trailed by 8 at intermission. Amherst had the ball to start the second half, scored the first 5 pts, and it was over.

First, Walters...who is this guy? I've seen Amherst play at least once every year and I can't even remember him...you might recall I was a huge Coulibaly fan...could we be enlightened as to what happenned to him? Transferred to RISD? Walters is a D-III, 6'7" small forward who shot 5-10 from 3pt vs Conn including 4-4 to start the second half (felt like 7-7). Huh?

Second, Basko: how many did he have vs CC? 14? I don't recall seeing him make one basket. He did have an awesome block on Stone...someone called him silky (actually now I remember his 3-pointers swishing), I'd call him an amazing basketball player. Honestly, I'd like an Amherst fan to tell me how Bedford was better than this guy, or (especially if Amherst wins the whole shabang) how a two-time natl champ player(with another year to go) might not be better than the great Bedford.

Hopkins: Caught a ridiculous 'oop (no look toss from you know who) at the top of the box and threw it down.

Olsen: Looked bored. Tickled himself with a no look alley-oop and a few bulls-eyes from about 27 ft vs the 2-3 zone.

Jones: I like this kid. He appears to be a very hard worker. I recall him coming off the bench as a sophomore and I wondered why he'd be content riding pine at Amherst only to maybe be a starter as a senior. Not only is he a starter, he's a much improved player. Olsen dropped a bounce-pass for Jones on the secondary and he stopped and popped from about 25ft (this was in the middle of Walters 4-4 stretch from deep)...you know in warm-ups when good players are shooting and every ball just goes "ka-chunk" through the rim in rapid fire till two or three get stuck? That's what the second half looked like.

Amherst fans, thank you for your praise of the Camels. CC has a HUGE weekend at Williams and Middlebury. It will not be easy to beat Williams on the road, though some will want to favor the Camels. At Middlebury won't be easy either with Midd probably cruising on Friday night vs Wesleyan.  At 3-4, the Camels would love to lock-up the #5 or #6 seed.

[hoopjunkie]

My Jumbos showed up vs Williams on Saturday & beat them by 25 . Wow !! In a most frustrating season we finally played the way we should & can .
Hats off to Jon Pierce he  finally played an all around game . He looked for open men , rebounded & played a little defense . Even though he had no assists for the game he made the extra pass to open up his teamates . He is the most athletic Jumbo by far & he showed if he sacrifices even 4-5 shots he normally would take being double teamed , great thing can happen.
The problem this year for Tufts has been defense obviously , but more then that is when O`Keefe was injured & out there has been a lack of good ball movement & overall offensive movement .
The best pass & play this year was vs Williams when Jake Weitzen with great court vision hit sophmore Dave Beyel backdoor for a thuderous dunk .
This weekend will tell the story. Lets beat Bowdoin first & not look towards Colby . One game at a time .

[walzy31]

Second, Basko: how many did he have vs CC? 14? I don't recall seeing him make one basket. He did have an awesome block on Stone...someone called him silky (actually now I remember his 3-pointers swishing), I'd call him an amazing basketball player. Honestly, I'd like an Amherst fan to tell me how Bedford was better than this guy, or (especially if Amherst wins the whole shabang) how a two-time natl champ player(with another year to go) might not be better than the great Bedford.

Amherst fans, thank you for your praise of the Camels. It will not be easy to beat Williams on the road, though some will want to favor the Camels.

Truly enjoyed the post.

Two things:
1) I would take Baskauskas over Bedford 85-90% of the time mostly because Brian is a better rebounder and shoots at a higher percentage than Bedford.
2) Hate to do it to you, but I have to make Conn favorites in the Williams game this weekend. Conn -4.5 @ Williams


Does Williams lose out and miss the NESCAC Tourney?

[JeffRookie2]

Man, what a ridiculous all-decade team. No Amherst players, and only 2 NESCAC players (both Williams) at all compared to 5 for CCIW. I would be surprised if I didnt know who put the list together. The CCIW won 1 national championship this decade, and that was 10 years ago. I guess the NESCAC has been kicking their asses with inferior players.

Seriously, no Steve Zieja!!?? Unbelievable. This whole site is so WIAC-CCIW central it's absurd.

I dont think the Bedford-Baskauskas comparisons are fair, they are different types of players. Bedford could get his own shot and get into the lane, something we haven't had at Amherst since he graduated. Baskauskas does just about everything well. He scores, rebounds, defends and passes. Definitely an awesome player to watch.

[gordonmann]

Jeff Rookie:

Actually there are seven CCIW players.  Not that this will make you happier.

Seriously, if you can make a good case for one of the Amherst guys, I'd be interested in hearing it.  Zieja was an All-American for us once at the honorable mention level.  Very few of the selections -- one of them being Nogelo -- were only All-American once and none at the HM level.

Keep in mind this award was based on our All-American selections, not the NABC or All-conference awards.  Also keep in mind that the decade parameters played a factor in someone like Olson not getting on the list.

[JeffRookie2]

Jeff Rookie:

Actually there are seven CCIW players.  Not that this will make you happier.

Seriously, if you can make a good case for one of the Amherst guys, I'd be interested in hearing it.  Zieja was an All-American for us once at the honorable mention level.  Very few of the selections -- one of them being Nogelo -- were only All-American once and none at the HM level.

Keep in mind this award was based on our All-American selections, not the NABC or All-conference awards.  Also keep in mind that the decade parameters played a factor in someone like Olson not getting on the list.

I have only been at amherst for 4 years, but there have been some incredible players over the last decade. Fitsimmons, Bedford, Schiel, Wilson, Harper. How about guys at other schools like Ty Rhoten, or Colin Tabb? I just dont see how the NESCAC, with all its success, could have so little recognition for its players. Almost all of the 'hall of fame' posters on this site are fans primarily of the CCIW and WIAC, so it gets a little frustrating.

A lot of Williams fans dont even acknowledge Crotty as the best player on that championship team. How about Coffin or Abba? Have the people who decided the all-decade team even know about these players?

[speedy]

speedy: What would moving to a new d-4 gain any of the members of NESCAC?

Nothing as far as I can see!! Apparently the NESCAC presidents are interested in it because the new D4 would be structured to give college presidents much greater control of operations than they have over D3. I suspect it has to do with wanting to dumb down sports in the NESCAC through the back door instead of directly taking on the athletic infrastructure on things like the tipping system and athletic budgets. 

[nescac1]

At the very least, Olson and Ben Strong, last year's national co-players of the year (and near-certain first team all americans this year) deserve to get in over guys like hoyt/carstens and Doll.  I realize this year doesn't "count" for either, but considering they were national players of the year as juniors, and Olson led his team to several final fours and a national title and Strong (the kind of guy you rarely see in D-III, 6'11 with skills) carried an otherwise unimpressive squad deep in the tourney, I would think both would at the very least be honorable mention.   

Congrats to Crotty and Nogelo who both deserved their places on the squad.  Although as a senior Coffin was more valuable than Crotty, Crotty was more consistent over his career, plus the competition at center is very stiff if someone like Strong couldn't even get honorable mention.  Given that Panko and George both played in the NBA and put up insane numbers, I'm OK with Nogelo as a second teamer.  But anything less would be unconscionable   

Other than Olson, I'm not sure that any other omitted NESCAC guys really deserved it.  Zieja was very good but not really a dominating presence, Coffin was dominant for only 1.5 seasons (although during that period he was as good as anyone), Tabb was great but never carried his team to a final four, and transferred from Div I part way through his career.  Tatum and Jamal Wilson were fantastic but fall behind Olson in the just miss category.  Amherst in general has been very balanced, which is great for team success, but when it comes to individual accolades, hard to single out one guy (other than Olson) disproportionately responsible for the Jeffs' success. 

[FormerPolarBear]

As the NESCAC rolls into its final weekend of games I would like to discuss the most obvious and deserving award of the year.  The All-league teams are difficult to assemble because of the plethora of talent throughout the league, but there is one award that is a no-brainer: the defensive player of the year.  Andrew Sargeantson from Bowdoin is hands down the best defender in the NESCAC.  He may not make all-league, in fact, Bowdoin a 2 or 3 seed may not have any players on the all-league teams because they are so balanced (Hippert, Fleigel, Jackson, Sarge), but they are all very good, solid players who deserve to be considered.  Anyways, back to the point, Sargeantson always guards the best player of the opposing team and almost always shuts them down.  He held Choice to 1-8, Rose 0-11, and Taylor to 2-13 or 3-14 (something like that).  He is a nuissance on the defensive end and continually rises to the occasion of locking down gifted offensive players.  This upcoming weekend he will be asked to guard Pierce and then Wholey on Saturday.  I think he will shut down both of these great players down, which will help Bowdoin pull off the sweep.  Sargeantson may have been under the radar at the beginning of the year, but he is the most valuable players to the Polar Bears, and he without a doubt, deserves to be recognized as the defensive player of the year.  

[Mr. Ypsi]

Two comments on the all-decade team:

To nescac1: I assume (not being a part of the selection, I don't know for sure) that only players who were done by 2007 were eligible - I can't believe that Strong and Olson would not otherwise have been fairly high in the listings.

To JeffRookie2: of the posting Hall-of-Famers, only two are affiliated with the CCIW (Greg Sager and Bob Quillman [Titan Q]); none are affiliated with the WIAC.  You'll have to base your conspiracy theories on something else!

[gordonmann]

Jeff Rookie:

Many of the players you brought up were considered.  Anyone who didn't make All-American at least once (Fitzsimmons, Harper, Abba) was not.

http://www.d3hoops.com/tow/allamericans-all.htm

Most of the guys you mentioned were named All-American just once.  It would've taken an incredible season (see Mike Nogelo) to crack the list with one All-American placement.

As for Strong and Olson, I think we need to see how they finish their careers before we can appropriately place them.  If Olson leads his team to another title, that suggests one placement.  If Amherst goes in the tank (and pigs learn to fly), that advises another placement.

And, yes, we were aware of all the players you mentioned.  I even took classes with one of them.

[newkidontheblock]

So how is the all decade team going to work then? Is there going to be an ongoing list? How long would it take players like Olson and Strong to make the list?