MBB: NESCAC

[Red1]

Egon,

Playing your best basketball when counts is superb, and I'm sure all the starters on Amherst could have a shot at all-conference in some respect if they were all on different teams.  Any team that over-looks any player, no matter how significant or insignificant they think said player will be, is asking to lose, and they'd deserve it if they do.

All that said,

All-Conference selections are about overall stats.  I'm sure Wheeler is an excellent player (I've never seen him play), but he hasn't put up the numbers that any of the players listed by ajsnc13 have, and as far as all-conference voting, if he makes an all-conference team, and that's certainly not a given, it will be 2nd team.  The reasons for his stats are irrevelant.  The fact is those are his stats, that's what the voters are looking at, and they're far more borderline than most of the "borderline" players on JeffRookie's list.

We had a discussion on the women's board about the effect of one good or bad game on overall stats.  The effect is minimal to none.  One game does not an all-conference selection make or break, and to judge players based on one game rather than overall stats is improper.  Whether Olson or Ray played better in one game is irrelevant as compared to how well they've played over the course of the entire year.  The full year stats, by the way, are pretty close between the two, but they favor Ray slightly (according to the nescac website), so putting him ahead of Olson would not be a stretch.

Sticks,

I don't know much about Farrell, but he wasn't of major consequence in Lewiston.  The player who kept blocking shots, hitting from seemingly anywhere he wanted, and pretty much contolled the game was Cohen.  He even stepped back for a few threes which I thought was ludicrous for a center until I realized he could make them.  Watching a center drop threes is a very strange experience.  Bates only won that game with shear heroics by Zack Ray as he scored 9 points in the last minute of the game.  It seems quite clear to me that Bates winnning by 11 up in Waterville was likely a direct result of Cohen not being there.  It would be an injustice if anyone but Cohen got DPOY

Cheers,
Red1

[senatorfrost]

 Haven't done my teams yet but Rose v Wheeler. Numbers don't mean that much. Wheeler is stronger and I think quicker. They both have good range and a good shooting touch BUT Wheeler can go inside vs almost anyone and score or get fouled.

By position because in a real game you wouldn't want all those cloddy centers bumping into each other.

1st Team

Center-Cohen-Shot blockers are always on people's mind

PF-Rhoten=A Res Ipse

SF- Petrie A talent who is stuck on a team with two guards who like to launch.

Sg-Bedford-The other Res Ipse

- I saw Olson outplay Ray but was it because Ray could tell his team was FAR out of it? Olson has so much more to work with team wise. Then again Pat Martin may not be as flashy as Olson but he is way bigger and on a good shooting night, I might want him

PG-Olson/Ray/P.Martin 

2d Team

Center- D Martin by defaukt unless Stone impresses me more on Sat.

Pf-Stockwell-Versatil

SF-Wheeler-much more versatile

SG- Clarke. So Quick-really quick!

PG Olson/Ray/P.Martin ??

POY-Why not give it to Bedford and Rhoten. Same town so it will be good publicity for the league throughout Jersey. It may even get a mention in the Globe and in the N.Y.Times. Who knows.

[JeffRookie2]

whoa ajsnc, i never said that wheeler was better statistically than any of those guys, and i didnt mean borderline as an insult, im just saying they may or may not make an all-conference team, and i include wheeler in that group. (petrie and stockwell are probably not borderline, so i take that back.-notice i put them on my 2nd team. ) all im saying is, having watched them play head to head, i feel, regardless of statistics, that wheeler is a more talented player than someone like wietzen or clarke or stone. all of those guys (as you pointed out) are either the #1 or 2 option on their team, and thus have the opportunity to play more, get more looks and thus have better statistics. For instance, look at wietzen. he averages slightly more points and rebounds than wheeler, but anyone who saw wheeler dominate weitzen on both ends of the floor last weekend would assure you that the stats dont tell the whole story. DESPITE being worse statistically, i feel that Wheeler is a better player than a lot of the guys who will end up making the 2nd team all-conference. its just like when shareef abdul-rahim makes the all-star team for the hawks when everyone knows there are plenty of players better than him that dont put up his numbers because they play for better teams and have to settle for being the third or fourth option. I don't know, i always find it annoying that these selections are based on stats. I would rather see them attempt to put together the best 10 players in the NESCAC, period. stats are too highly influenced by circumstance.

[ajsnc13]

Rhoten is hands down the player of the year without even looking at the numbers...Bedford is very good, but he is the 3rd best player in the league after Rhoten and Petrie...Petrie may be the most all around player,but with Bowdoin at a 5 seed he would never get POY, which makes sense...Senatorfrost, as your statement of Petrie stuck on a team with guards who like to gun, Hippert is a good shooter, shooting over 40% from threes, and Bradley is a pass first guard who does whatever is asked of him and shoots the 3 (not very well  this year, but 35% for career)...Bowdoin will defeat Bates this weekend and Bradley will outplay Ray just like he did at Bowdoin when they guarded one another (they did not guard one another in the first meeting when Bates smashed Bowdoin)...Petrie will display his serious talent as he leads Bowdoin through the playoffs...

[JeffRookie2]

ok, there is no way petrie is better than bedford. bedford can shoot with petrie, is better at creating his own shot/getting into the lane, leads his team in rebounding, guards the toughest assignment every night. its not close. bedford and rhoten are in their own league. I also think Bates will win this weekend, its just hard to imagine them losing 4 in a row, and at home in the first round. everyone is down on them now after last weekend, but they are still a very dangerous team.

[ajsnc13]

No one in the league creates their shot better than Petrie, that is what he is best at...Bedford is better at that? That is the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard....Petrie leads his team in rebounds and did so last year as well...Petrie can also get into the lane at will....Bowdoin will win by atleast 5 points this weekend...

[nescachoopsfan]

there is no way that petrie is the best all around player, not even close.  bedford is better in every way than petrie and they play the same position.  i wouldnt even say he is the most versitile.  I dont think he handles the ball exceptionally, he can definetly handle the rock, but not better than bedford, doesnt d up or shoot or take it to the rack as strong.  petrie is very crafty and hits tough shots, but especially if i was making my team i would pick bedford 40 times out of 40.  bedford is the best player on his team, and no plays are even run for him.  he plays within the system and makes things happen.  petrie is good, but not even top 3 guards in the league.  also farell is not that good.  streaky shooter and absolutely no left hand dribble or drive.  all right hand.  not  good point guard.

[ajsnc13]

And just as a throw in, Bedford is extremely over-rated....what I mean is that he is good,very good, but not nearly as good as you seem to think...there is a clear gap between Rhoten/Petrie and Bedford....

[JeffRookie2]

ok, this is a time for you to question your objectivity. everyone on this board watches a lot of NESCAC ball, but i think you would be hard pressed to find someone else who regards petrie as highly as you do. I would say in terms of POY consideration, Cohen has to placed higher that Petrie and perhaps even D. Martin. (Martin basically carries his team, which finished higher than Bowdoin.) Also, its worth noting that bedford leads a good rebounding team in rebounding. Amherst is tops in the conference in rebounding margin, Bowdoin 8th.

[ajsnc13]

It is true that I am bias towards Petrie and the entire Bowdoin team...but do not act like almost everyone on this board is not bias...If I am building a team I take Petrie over everyone in the league besides Rhoten...and my team would destroy yours if you built your team around Bedford...

[JeffRookie2]

haha... ok, we'll have to do that sometime.

[JeffRookie2]

Speaking of good underrated point guards, i really liked the play of Jeremy Black at Tufts. When i saw him play he had a bit of trouble with the TOs, but so did Ray against the Jeffs, so its hard to say how much was the defense. But a great shooter, realizes Martin and Wietzen underneath are the first option, and has some speed. I think he could mature into a very solid player.

[formerbant10]

JeffRookie,

I saw "Swampass" Black play in Hartford and he is going to be very good.  Very confident point guard who shoots well from deep and is a great passer.  Any word on whether or not he's pursuing a medical waiver from last year's torn ACL?

As for the Petrie/Bedford debate.  Bedford is a much better shooter from the outside.  Petrie is more dangerous off the dribble.  They both do a great job posting up other guards.  As for defense, I haven't seen them play this year so I don't know if they have improved.  But last year neither of them were lock down defenders.

[Grutte Dirk]

Is there a forum that discusses NESCAC sports not found on D3sports.com?

[ajsnc13]

by the way, Jake Weitzen is miserable, I don't understand how he runs up and down the court let alone average 15 or whatever he is averaging.  When I saw him play, he played no defense, had 3 offensive fouls, and managed to look extremely unathletic while doing it all.