MBB: NESCAC

[Hugenerd]

I was talking about the top leagues in those countries.  Unlike in America, a lot of those countries have like 5 leagues.  Germany, for example, has the Bundesliga, then ProA, the ProB, the RegionalLiga1, and Regionalliga2.  Obviously as you go down the ladder, you get paid less also, that is a given.  Meanwhile, in other countries, even the top leagues are shady, which is what I thought you were referring to.  I still dont think there is a good distinction between East/West.  Would you consider Greece a western European country?  Turkey?  The top leagues in either of those countries have clubs that can play with any in Europe.  As you go to more regional leagues in any country the pay will get worse, I was talking about the top leagues.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe all of the former Amherst players play (or played) in the German Regionalligas.

[Wydown Blvd.]

Here is a pretty good breakdown of the European leagues by quality. I think their categories are pretty true.

http://www.playerexposure.com/inform/leagues.htm

[nescac1]

Williams' top assistant headed into the season hired by Cornell:

http://www.theithacajournal.com/article/20091023/SPORTS03/910230367/College+basketball++Cornell+hires+App+as+assistant

Their other assistant is brand new this year.  I wonder if Maker will hire someone to replace him so close to the start of the season, or just go with a very small staff? 

[Hugenerd]

Here is a pretty good breakdown of the European leagues by quality. I think their categories are pretty true.

http://www.playerexposure.com/inform/leagues.htm

According to those rankings, Jimmy Bartolotta is playing in the second best league in Europe.  I believe he arrives today in Italy to play for Air Avellino, which is in Serie A.

I dont disagree with those rankings, I think they are pretty much accurate.  If you want to see a matchup of Euro powerhouses, today at 1 pm on NBA TV the Barcelona (Spain ACB) vs. Fenerbahce Ulker (Turkish Super League) matchup is being televised.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

There are so many myths pertaining to play overseas. The money(for the most part) is not great and the experience can be awful. I have heard many stories where players do not get paid or the accomodations are awful.

A lot of that is the differences between eastern and western Europe, too.

I would disagree, in general, with that statement.  I think there is more variation from league-to-league than say east/west.   Obviously some western european leagues are at a high level, such as Spain, Germany, and France. However, some of the other western leagues are pretty crappy, such as the British and Irish leagues (for example).  Then you have some good southern/central leagues, like Italy and Greece, and there are also some good leages in the east, like the Turkish Super League.

I was thinking more along the lines of the fact that you could be in Greece on a million dollar contract and not know if you're getting paid at the end of the week whereas you can be in Ireland on a ten thousand dollar contract and be pretty sure those tiny checks will always be there for you.

[Hugenerd]

There are so many myths pertaining to play overseas. The money(for the most part) is not great and the experience can be awful. I have heard many stories where players do not get paid or the accomodations are awful.

A lot of that is the differences between eastern and western Europe, too.

I would disagree, in general, with that statement.  I think there is more variation from league-to-league than say east/west.   Obviously some western european leagues are at a high level, such as Spain, Germany, and France. However, some of the other western leagues are pretty crappy, such as the British and Irish leagues (for example).  Then you have some good southern/central leagues, like Italy and Greece, and there are also some good leages in the east, like the Turkish Super League.

I was thinking more along the lines of the fact that you could be in Greece on a million dollar contract and not know if you're getting paid at the end of the week whereas you can be in Ireland on a ten thousand dollar contract and be pretty sure those tiny checks will always be there for you.

This just seems like a completely conjectured argument (I dont see anything about what you have said that is factual and it all just seems like stereotypical arguments).  Although it is true that I have heard reports about a case or two in which Greek teams failed to pay players what they were owed, who is to say that this does not happen in western European leagues (whether it is Ireland or some other arbitrary country).  The reason the Greek league, and other top leagues, can offer million dollar contracts is because they are generally wealthy enough to do so.  Therefore, although a $10K-$20K contract may seem like a lot less to us, it may not be insignificant to that Irish team who has a small fan base and meager facilities. That is why there are good leagues and bad leagues to begin with, because the pay is better in the good leagues.  Also, do you think you will ever hear about some Irish team not paying a $20K contract to some random borderline player?  The reason that you hear of these cases at all, here in the US, is because this happened to a US player with a half million dollar contract once.  If it had happened to regional league player X with a minisculse contract, nobody would know about this except the player, his agent (if he had one), and the team officials.  This east/west classification is completely arbitrary. 

You also have to understand that the contracts over there can be structured a lot different than here in the US.  For example, it can be stated in your contract that you are required to be the team's leading scorer and have other performance standards explicitly stated in order to earn your paycheck.  These arent always bonuses, you have to do X to get paid.  I had a friend play in Portugal, and he was required to lead his team in several statistical categories in order to earn his paycheck.  There arent always guaranteed contracts like there are in the NBA, and that we are all used to seeing.  Therefore, there is a lot of pressure on the players to perform, especially in lower leagues where they can maybe only afford to pay one foreign player, and some gray area when it comes to performance and whether you are earning the full amount of your contract (and this does not only happen in eatern Europe).  Like I said before, whether it is a $10K contract in Ireland or $1M in Greece, there is no general rule of thumb as to say that the guy in Ireland is definitely going to get paid or the guy in Greece may not.  The best leagues are determined by the amount of money the clubs in those leagues have, and whether a team pays a players depends on that players contract and the unqiue financial status of the given club (and it does not follow that the further west you get in Europe, the more likely you are to get paid).

[Mr. Ypsi]

Those performance standards are bizarre.  Imagine the situation where a 'must be the highest scorer' player could pass for the winning basket, but the intended receiver is just behind him in scoring average!   Win the game; lose your paycheck!

[Hugenerd]

Those performance standards are bizarre.  Imagine the situation where a 'must be the highest scorer' player could pass for the winning basket, but the intended receiver is just behind him in scoring average!   Win the game; lose your paycheck!

Yeah, it is a bit a different system.  I didnt actually see my friends contract (and I didnt ask too many specifics), so I dont know if he had to be the leading scorer for the whole season, or on average every certain number of games, or every single game, but it is definitely different than what we are used to here.  I believe he was the only American player on his team (which is one of the reasons he didnt like it there that much), so he was expected to carry alot of the load in terms of production. 

Imagine if it was in Paul Pierce's contract that he had to lead the team in scoring, it would probably effect his decision making at the end of games if he wanted to pass to Ray Allen or KG or Big baby, which would undouobtedly eventually effect team performance.  I think one of the reasons they can do this is because on most of these types of teams there is only a single foreign player who is usually clearly better (or supposed to be) than the rest of the guys on the team.  You probably couldnt do that if you had multiple NBA level guys on your team.

[Mr. Ypsi]

On a more general note, individual performance standards (if not VERY carefully thought out) can also insert that proverbial 'I' in 'team'.

[I confess I've always liked the two standard comebacks: 1) there is 'me' in 'team', or 2) 'yeah, but there is I in win'! ]

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Nerd,

I agree with you.  My information was nothing but speculative and hearsay.  However, the original statement was about the experience and atmosphere surrounding a player.  There is a difference, especially for kids coming from the US between eastern and western Europe on a lot of levels.  And even if his Greek team never missed a payday, the very fact that some of those leagues have the reputation doesn't do anything to avoid the distraction of thinking about it.

[senatorfrost]

  What do Dolly Parton, Volbeat, Kitty Wells, Mike Ness and Emmylou Harris have in common with the majority of the NESCAC Men and Women's basketball coaches?

  This question is worth a fair number of Karma points.

[lefrakenstein]

they're lousy musicians?

(i assume most NESCAC coaches are not especially musically talented... i could be wrong)

[frank uible]

They have tits - some large, some not so large.

[nescac1]

Who are people who have never been in my kitchen? ...


On a hoops note, Wesleyan has its preseason roster up.  Huge group of nine incoming frosh (many of who are highly acclaimed).  Probably a year or two away but Reilly may be building a new NESCAC power ...

[T990]

Who are people who have never been in my kitchen? ...

Nice one! 

But what about providing a citation for that quotation?

Who are three people who have never been in my kitchen?

http://thelongestlistofthelongeststuffatthelongestdomainnameatlonglast.com/cliffclavin75.html