MBB: NESCAC

[ac08]

Shattuck was battling an injury, but he played.

[Pat Coleman]

As someone who had seen Shattuck play healthy and also played Shattuck that weekend, let me just say that what you saw was not even close to his true ability.

[Old Guy]

I liked this Williams team a lot, which cost me with some of my Midd teammates who remember games in the old Williams gym with the balcony and the students who pulled down your shorts when you took the ball out on the sidelines. Williams has been good forever. At Middlebury this year watching Wang and Whittington go 2-on-2, the high pick and roll - unstoppable. And if you happened to play W&W tough, there was Schultz standing on the three point line. Maker has paid his dues. He deserves this success. For opponents, he's easier to respect than Paulson ("Sit down, Coach").

Next year will be fun. The Panthers could be terrific. Locke improves from year to year by quantum leaps (wish he could play here till he was 25). We will miss Edwards, without question: I've not seen a player play harder in three decades and was glad to see that he was found deserving of all-league honors. I think Thompson is the best candidate to replace that energy on the floor. We'll see. Frosh guards Wolfson & Alvarez will be a year older. Sharry too. Davis, universally admired on and off the floor, will provide senior leadership. Bates, Wes, Amherst, Trinity will all be better next year - and Midd has a tougher road schedule - two trips to Maine.

I'm glad I'm a serious baseball fan. Otherwise I'd be in serious hoop withdrawal. Midd plays three this weekend against the Ephs in Phoenix. We can mash but have yet to show much on the hill. Go Panthers. Go Sox.

[ac08]

As someone who had seen Shattuck play healthy and also played Shattuck that weekend, let me just say that what you saw was not even close to his true ability.

I caught a bit of healthy Shattuck as well. He certainly didn't perform the way he had earlier. I think that was for a variety of reasons, but ultimately I don't believe it would have changed the outcome.

___


Guess to whom I'd give the Jeff/Eph edge...

- I only quickly checked, but I think Amherst was 16-12 versus Williams during the decade.
- '07 Amherst only had 2 losses. Both were by a bucket.
- Amherst had plenty of great/memorable moments/achievements:
         - '05 and '08 Amherst both went undefeated during the regular season.
         - staging huge comebacks versus '05 Tufts twice. Both in OT. One to win the 'CAC. One to win the sweet 16.           (remember "the shot"?)
         - National Championship (defeating the reigning Champs) plus 3 other final fours.
         - 4 classes with 105+ Wins (105, 106, 111, 111).

- Olson was (co)player of the year twice. He'd mean a whole lot to every team.
- Bedford is third all-time at Amherst in scoring. Comparable rebound numbers (510 to Shultz's 545). 3rd team all-american. First team all-conference twice. I believe Bedford's numbers aren't quite as good, but mostly because he played on better teams.
         

[Pat Coleman]

ultimately I don't believe it would have changed the outcome.

Agreed.

[nescac1]

It's interesting, I remember seeing Schultz as a frosh and thought he reminded me of Bedford (I think I even did a post here stating as much) -- similar size, similar style, both physical, both very efficient offensively, both good rebounders for their size, both able to drive, hit tough mid-range shots, and also hit the three.  Both very good defensively as well, although I give Schultz a slight edge there.  And their career stats, across the board, are remarkably similar.  Still, comparing them, you have to go with Schultz (and the variance in the quality of their teams cuts both ways -- Schultz received a lot more defensive attention at an earlier stage than Bedford did).   But looking at their senior year stats, there is a small edge to Schultz ... as is reflected in the fact that Schultz was first team all-American, Bedford third, and only Schultz was NESCAC POY.  Eerily similar though:

Schultz as a senior: 19.2 points, 4.3 boards, about 2 assists and 2 TO's, 1.5 steals, .53 / .52 / .86 shooting
Bedford as a senior: 17.0 ppg, 4.6 boards, about 2.5 assists and 2.5 TO's, 1.5 steals, .52 / .47 / .81 shooting

Very, very even, but edge to Schultz in the shooting / scoring categories.  But in almost every year, their stats are VERY similar.  Bedford had a slightly better Soph year, Schultz a slightly better Frosh, Junior, and Senior year, but it is very close.  If Schultz is on the first team, Bedford certainly is the leader of the second team (along with Steve Zieja, Leo Jones, Colin Tabb).  

Amherst has certainly had a list of great moments over the past decade ... I just feel like Williams has had a few more TRULY memorable moments, especially since so many of them came against Amherst (like the Tucker Kain game, which I forget to mention, the three NESCAC title showdowns all of which went the Ephs' way, and the two huge NCAA victories).  I also forgot to mention that, during the course of the decade, Williams set the all-time D-III record for consecutive home court wins.  But as I also said, Amherst was more consistent throughout the decade, hence why I believe they tie for NESCAC team of the decade.  Amherst was CLEARLY ahead until 09-10, but Williams' incredible year coupled with the worst year of the decade for either team from Amherst pulled the Ephs even.  

[ac08]

I understand your point and I think it's valid.  I will say, though, that I don't think one year of Eph great success/Amherst mediocrity is quite enough to pull it to even.  During 9 of the past 10 seasons, there has been a winner of the regular season series. Amherst won 6.  And 2 out of the 3 times Williams won, Amherst was an elite 8 and a final four team.

Didn't Amherst also tie, break, or come close to breaking the record for most consecutive weeks being ranked on D3hoops.com Top 25? I don't remember. It doesn't really support my argument or hurt yours, nescac1, I just thought it was worth remembering.

[amh63]

Interesting discussion on the best team of the past decade in the conference.  Comments and perceptions are not surprising though.  I believe that we can all agreed that both Amherst and Williams both had a great decade of BB.  I also believe that all the conference posters welcome a new decade with higher level of competition within the conference.  I welcome the resurgence of Tufts, and Wes.  I enjoy seeing a great Midd team play as well as Trinity and even Conn.  Though I do not like to worry at my age, good teams from the Maine schools  and the re-entrance of Hamilton will make my life more interesting.  I like to see a good BB game.  I look forward to seeing how Amherst will take up the "challenge" made by the Hamilton BB coach to me last Fall (in a friendly manner).  He stated that to reach the post season, a conference team will have to go through Hamilton.....or was it Clinton NY?

[toad22]

I think that coaching changes made this a little bit tougher at Williams. First, we lost Harry Sheehy and the team had to make the transition to Dave Paulsen, then a couple of years ago we moved to Mike Maker. These transitions always hurt a team for at least a season as teams learn new systems. Amherst had the big advantage of having Dave Hixon for all 10 years.

[frank uible]

Amherst and Williams each are so wonderful that I can barely hold my urine.

[ac08]

I'd give you +k if I could, toad. GP.

[Gabriel]

As someone who had seen Shattuck play healthy and also played Shattuck that weekend, let me just say that what you saw was not even close to his true ability.

Pat,

You are so correct.  He had two high ankle sprains and a deep bone bruise in his left heel.  All during or after the first (Bible Baptist) NCAA game.

[TheHerst2and4]

Maybe the silence on this topic answers my question, but to appease Mr Uible and get off the topic of the schools that shall not be named...
Any word on recruiting? I think its still very early but any leads or early decisions?

[Hugenerd]

Here is a good sourve for regional recruiting, although I know a lot of guys from Williams and Amherst are out-of-region guys:

http://www.newenglandrecruitingreport.com/prospects/

Looks like Brandeis is doing the best in region (I know they are not in the NESCAC), with 5 commits already, but Hamilton (when are they returning to the NESCAC, is it this season?) has a couple of players (Matt Dean, Greg Newton) and Wesleyan has one player (Chad Labove) listed as well.  There are a few other players listed already that are going D3 also to schools from other conferences.

[division3]

frank...you're a real pisser.